Revisiting Nico vs Nolan - 2nd Voting

[Hiesenberg]

#2 to take Amac of our hands, get Grubauer and more. Tempting

What in the hell is going on?

 

[bauer]

What in the hell is going on?

mind boggling isn't it? at least we only have 2 more days of this and then it's all over.

 

[bennysflyers16]

What could they offer that would be attractive enough? 6th and next years 1st plus a goalie?

Not near enough,,, Do we really hope to win a lottery 2 years in a row ???

 

[hatcher]

If Vegas wants the pick they'll pay the price. These 2 centers aren't that much better than the rest just below them.

 

[Psuhockey]

What could they offer that would be attractive enough? 6th and next years 1st plus a goalie?

They could offer multiple firsts plus players. #6 + #15 plus a defenseman plus a goalie and they could take MacDonald. Hischier and Patrick are clearly the two best players in the draft but they are not Eichel/ Laine level talents. Vegas could easily make a package that could sway Hextall. I trust that Hextall and the Flyers scouts that they will make the right decision.

 

[The Burdened]

I don't care that they're not Eichel or Laine.

The way I look at it, we got a top 2 pick in a 2 player draft and Nolan could be our Johansen or Monahan.

Now all of the sudden we're in the business of passing on such a player because MUH PICKS and MUH MACDONALD. **** that noise. Pick the best player available and just bury MacDonald in the minors again if we need to.

This is absolute lunacy.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

They could offer multiple firsts plus players. #6 + #15 plus a defenseman plus a goalie and they could take MacDonald. Hischier and Patrick are clearly the two best players in the draft but they are not Eichel/ Laine level talents. Vegas could easily make a package that could sway Hextall. I trust the Hextall and the Flyers scouts that they will make the right decision.

But these kinds of proposals ignore the context of our particular situation. We don't need a boatload of prospects - in fact, it could cause us issues down the road with too many prospects being ready at the exact same time. While it's largely true that you can't have "too many" prospects in the big picture, in our situation we need one guy, one 1C, to round off this part of our build. It's entirely possible that Glass or Vilardi will end up being just as good as Patrick, but I can't see it. If they realistically had that chance, with the information we have right now, more scouts and league people would have said something to that effect, and they haven't. They have been consistent and effusive in saying that these two guys are at the top in a tier of their own, and while that tier may not have the separation from its nearest levels, the way McDavid's and Matthews' did, it is still a tier above and we should take advantage of that and not overthink this. This isn't the piece to be playing with.

 

[Psuhockey]

But these kinds of proposals ignore the context of our particular situation. We don't need a boatload of prospects - in fact, it could cause us issues down the road with too many prospects being ready at the exact same time. While it's largely true that you can't have "too many" prospects in the big picture, in our situation we need one guy, one 1C, to round off this part of our build. It's entirely possible that Glass or Vilardi will end up being just as good as Patrick, but I can't see it. If they realistically had that chance, with the information we have right now, more scouts and league people would have said something to that effect, and they haven't. They have been consistent and effusive in saying that these two guys are at the top in a tier of their own, and while that tier may not have the separation from its nearest levels, the way McDavid's and Matthews' did, it is still a tier above and we should take advantage of that and not overthink this. This isn't the piece to be playing with.

But every one here is under the assumption that Hextall and the Flyers scouts see these guys the same way as the consensus rankings. The Flyers have a history of going off the board and being proven right later. One of their most disappointing picks was JVR the consensus #2. Maybe they see some of the same things in Patrick that they did in JVR. I don't know. Nobody knows except the Flyers. If they think Glass, Villardi or Pettersson have a similar long term projection as Hischier and Patrick they would be fools not to take a big return for trading down just to follow the consensus. Again I have faith in the Flyers scouts.

Also it's ridiculous to even say a team can get in trouble for having too many good prospects. Prospects are the top trade currency in the league.

 

[hatcher]

Can trade prospects right after you get them too.

 

[Tripod]

Remember that for awhile, we were picking #13 so the range of picks that our scouts might have loved "could" be there at #15. So they could be looking at it that they are getting 2 good assets for 1 that is only slightly better. Then if Vegas adds the goalie Hextall covets, then you could see how he could be swayed.

Not saying it will happen, but it's not crazy either considering Vegas has #6 and likely #15.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

But every one here is under the assumption that Hextall and the Flyers scouts see these guys the same way as the consensus rankings. The Flyers have a history of going off the board and being proven right later. One of their most disappointing picks was JVR the consensus #2. Maybe they see some of the same things in Patrick that they did in JVR. I don't know. Nobody knows except the Flyers. If they think Glass, Villardi or Pettersson have a similar long term projection as Hischier and Patrick they would be fools not to take a big return for trading down just to follow the consensus. Again I have faith in the Flyers scouts.

Also it's ridiculous to even say a team can get in trouble for having too many good prospects. Prospects are the top trade currency in the league.

Hextall had nothing to do with JVR. You could be right that he sees one of these guys being better than Patrick, but I just can't see it - Patrick ticks all the Hextall boxes. And what I meant about too many prospects is as an alternative to spreading them out a bit - rather than collect a ton of them all at the same time, which we have already done, better to grab the high-end guy now, in the position we need. Of course there's nothing wrong with having too many in general, but right now we don't need volume in our pipeline. We still have a ton of picks anyway. I just don't see the wisdom in a move like that and I can't see Hexy doing it.

 

[Embiid]

I can see Hextall trading the pick to Vegas for more assets and then drafting a player later in the 1st that they feel has good upside. Also, see Vegas wanting to get a centerpiece now while they have the leverage and need to market their team. The logic fits....so honestly won't be surprised and I still trust in the Flyers assessment of players...except when they pick the occasional Dove Bar McFalls or whatever his name is...

 

[The Burdened]

and ayy lmao at anybody who thinks we're getting a Godfather offer from Vegas.

Best I could see is #6 + Mystery Box Goalie for #2 + MacDonald.
**** that and **** Hextall with branding iron if he entertains that.

 

[StoneHands]

I don't understand why Hexy wouldn't just buy out MacDonald after this season if he sees it as a huge problem. Zero reason to worry about it this year since they are not going to be contenders. If they simply don't think they will have room for him bury him in the A for the season and then buy him out after next season if they need the space. His buyout cap hit would be somewhere in the $1.5m range for 4 years. That's a better scenario than giving up the #2 overall just to take that cap hit away.

 

[BillDineen]

 

[Flyotes]

I love NHL glamor shots. Soo much.

..and videos. More.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Honestly, I love the fact that he can fight/be physical with those kinds of hands.

 

[Larry44]

and ayy lmao at anybody who thinks we're getting a Godfather offer from Vegas.

Best I could see is #6 + Mystery Box Goalie for #2 + MacDonald.
**** that and **** Hextall with branding iron if he entertains that.

Based on what? No need to involve AMac. IF Vegas really wants Patrick, Hexy will make them pay the price he asks. If not, pick Patrick. Pretty simple. McPhee has had all the leverage for the last month, this is the one deal for which he doesn't have leverage.

 

[Striiker]

Not to be a downer, but I'm slightly worried when watching his skating.

Don't want to say slow... just seems.... non-fast... un-fast... de-fast.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Skating is at least something that can be improved over time. Tavares wasn't the best skater but he's certainly gotten better since he got drafted. His size, his hands and his IQ aren't something you can exactly teach (as in natural talent and size).

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Not to be a downer, but I'm slightly worried when watching his skating.

Don't want to say slow... just seems.... non-fast... un-fast... de-fast.

I don't know anything about skating, but I think when his groin exploded it cost him the ability to drive with his core ... or words to that effect. So I think there is a chance that, while he isn't a great skater, he will look better once his groin knits itself back together. I hope so, anyway. The good thing is that he seems to be very smart out there, so he can make up for some of it with good positioning and anticipation.

 

[Striiker]

I don't know anything about skating, but I think when his groin exploded it cost him the ability to drive with his core ... or words to that effect. So I think there is a chance that, while he isn't a great skater, he will look better once his groin knits itself back together. I hope so, anyway. The good thing is that he seems to be very smart out there, so he can make up for some of it with good positioning and anticipation.

Unfortunately I don't think that's the issue, based on his 2015-2016 highlight videos.

He looks pretty much the same, pre-injury.

 

[The Burdened]

Based on what? No need to involve AMac. IF Vegas really wants Patrick, Hexy will make them pay the price he asks. If not, pick Patrick. Pretty simple. McPhee has had all the leverage for the last month, this is the one deal for which he doesn't have leverage.

based on the opinion that I don't believe Vegas would trade additional 1st round picks to move up 5 spots in a weak draft.

IMO they are much more likely to move #6 + a player they selected on our behalf to move up 5 spots.

My overall point is that I don't believe there is anything close to a king's ransom to be had.

 

[The Burdened]

as for Nolan's skating.

He has acceptable skating and skates North/South. It's not his best attribute, but I wouldn't consider it a negative.

Nico is overwhelmingly the better skater. So shifty.

 

[Adam Warlock]

The goals Patrick scores look more like NHL goals than the ones Ive seen from Nico's highlights. Nico has a lot of one on one flash, but I dont know how much of that he is gonna be able to do at at the NHL level. I really like Patrick's shot and his power moves around the net.

As for trading the pick...it really doesnt make any sense. In fact, if LV was willing to give up a big package to move up, I feel like NJ would be their target bc NJ has a lot less depth than us.

2OV + Amac + PEB + Read for 6OV + 15OV + Goalie + Top 6 Forward is the only kinda deal I think I could live with....and that would only be IF Hextall has reason to be concerned about Patricks injuries. However, if LV is willing to give up THAT much for Patrick, I doubt his injury is that bad.

Just make the pick Hexy!