GDT: Red Wings @ Penguins

[WingedWheel1987]

Mrazek was available to trade for this summer and every team said, "no thanks." Vegas didn't even want him for free. I think you're overvaluing Mrazek on the market. He'd be a nice rebuild project, but not at his current salary. Teams will just wait to sign him this summer on a cheap contract as a free agent if they really want him.

There really is no downside to trying to improve Mrazek's value if you concede that the Wings aren't gonna accomplish anything by playing Howard 70 games.

 

[lilidk]

Yup you can't win when you don't show up. Another loss tomorrow against the Hawks and Tuesday against the Stars.

no it is just better team wan . And yes, hope after next 2 games Holland will make up his mind

 

[HIFE]

That was a good demoralizing loss.

Pretty much. I feel bad for the guys but losing is inevitable and helpful in the long run.

 

[dragonballgtz]

Easy to say watching from your TV. But if you're a shooter and you see nothing, it's another story.

Nope, he should shoot

 

[HIFE]

This 2nd half should be even rougher on the Wings. With the race across divisions so close there's too many teams playing for pride and a PO spot. People commenting Chicago's window is closed... they're doing everything to pry it back open, playing some good hockey the last week. I highly doubt they take the day off tomorrow.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Always funny to read the GDTs. Most want us to lose, but yet complain about everything as if we should expect to go out and dominate the back-to-back cup champions.

These guys think the path to the future is 33 year old Jimmy Howard, who'll be 36-37 years old by the time Cholowski or Hronek are good enough (if they're ever good enough) to anchor a defense.

And Mrazek is "the path to the future"? I'd rather have an older goalie who is NHL caliber than a younger one who isn't.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So Wings are bringing up Dominic Turgeon see what this kid can do.

 

[turkleton85]

Does Mantha even care? Mantha’s a more talented hockey player than Larkin but you sure as hell wouldn’t know it. Comparing him to Franzen seems way too generous if this is how he’s gonna play.

As much as it pisses me off they want to draft based on character or compete level, the more I sit here and watch Mantha the more I understand where they’re coming from.

Like what the hell dude. Was at the game today and he just doesn’t care.

i thought he looked ok in the 3rd, i was actually a bit surprised ^^ but you're right, he pisses me off as well. most frustrating player i've ever watched

 

[The Flying Octopus]

i thought he looked ok in the 3rd, i was actually a bit surprised ^^ but you're right, he pisses me off as well. most frustrating player i've ever watched

I think it’s more him not wanting to play for Trash, and he’s proving it by not competing for him. I wish the rest of the team would follow suit to show this guy can’t coach.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Always funny to read the GDTs. Most want us to lose, but yet complain about everything as if we should expect to go out and dominate the back-to-back cup champions.


And Mrazek is "the path to the future"? I'd rather have an older goalie who is NHL caliber than a younger one who isn't.

Mrazek certainly has more potential to garner something in a trade at this point, and it would be better long-term anyway.

I would rather move Mrazek and let Howard collect his paycheck as a major starter while we move on and find a new future goaltender.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

There really is no downside to trying to improve Mrazek's value if you concede that the Wings aren't gonna accomplish anything by playing Howard 70 games.

Playing Petr Mrazek or not is a completely worthless and irrelevant complaint. Teams have seen him for a year and a half. He's been pretty consistently bad in that period. A few weeks to a month of good play aren't going to wipe away that fact. You can say "no downside" to playing him, but I don't really think they have an upside either. At this point, a team is either going to wait out the Wings letting him walk because they don't want to qualify him at 4M if they're interested. Any team that is a contender already has a better starter and most have equivalent backups who are cheaper. The only way that Petr Mrazek gets any sway in the trade market is if a team loses their goalie right before the TDL... and even then, if I'm a team looking for a goalie, I'm looking for a Ryan Miller type if I'm dealing for a rental goalie. Like what the Wings did in 1999 when they made the move for Bill Ranford or St. Louis when they picked up Miller.

So while there may be no downside to Mrazek's playing to "re-establish value" I wager that there is no upside either.

 

[Redder Winger]

Always funny to read the GDTs. Most want us to lose, but yet complain about everything as if we should expect to go out and dominate the back-to-back cup champions.


And Mrazek is "the path to the future"? I'd rather have an older goalie who is NHL caliber than a younger one who isn't.

There's a much better chance that Mrazek, over Howard, will be good when the Red Wings are ready to be good again.

It's really this simple.

Right now, Howard has trade value.
Mrazek doesn't.

So you trade the guy with trade value.
And keep the guy who doesn't

But apparently Ken Holland graduated from the "sell low" school of economics.

See Riley Sheahan.

 

[Redder Winger]

Mrazek was available to trade for this summer and every team said, "no thanks." Vegas didn't even want him for free. I think you're overvaluing Mrazek on the market. He'd be a nice rebuild project, but not at his current salary. Teams will just wait to sign him this summer on a cheap contract as a free agent if they really want him.

So this makes you want to trade him?

Why not trade the goalie who has trade value and who isn't going to help the Red Wings win anything?

Help me understand your rationale.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

These guys think the path to the future is 33 year old Jimmy Howard, who'll be 36-37 years old by the time Cholowski or Hronek are good enough (if they're ever good enough) to anchor a defense.

No, they don't. They just know that the path to the future isn't Petr Mrazek. Jimmy Howard, if he stays past this current contract, is doing so as a backup for some other goalie that they land.

The Wings tried latching onto Mrazek as the goalie of the future when he skyrocketed out of the gate... and then he promptly blew up and started overcommitting on cross ice passes and teams picked up on that in scouting him. Add in Mrazek allegedly demanding that Howard be traded and followed that up by sucking so bad that he lost his job to him and sulked about it and you see why the Wings have soured on him.

 

[Redder Winger]

No, they don't. They just know that the path to the future isn't Petr Mrazek. Jimmy Howard, if he stays past this current contract, is doing so as a backup for some other goalie that they land.

The Wings tried latching onto Mrazek as the goalie of the future when he skyrocketed out of the gate... and then he promptly blew up and started overcommitting on cross ice passes and teams picked up on that in scouting him. Add in Mrazek allegedly demanding that Howard be traded and followed that up by sucking so bad that he lost his job to him and sulked about it and you see why the Wings have soured on him.

Good Lord. You speak as if Mrazek is the only goalie in the NHL who's ever had a setback.
Maybe you don't remember but this team tried to trade Howard too, when his value dwindled to nothing.
Maybe you remember? When he didn't finish a playoff series for 3 straight years?

Jimmy Howard hasn't finished a f***ing playoff series in goal for the Red Wings since the Chicago series - when he lost three straight games.
Maybe you don't know that Howard is 1-7 with a .911 sv% in his last 9 playoff games.

And the local media and 80 percent of the posters in here act like he's a god damn savior..

That's fine. You keep aping the clueless backers of Holland and Blashill.
Even as you pretend you -- and you alone -- want this team to improve.

If you had any desire at all to improve this team, you'd know that selling any 30+ year old with value is Job #1.

 

[Redder Winger]

There really is no downside to trying to improve Mrazek's value if you concede that the Wings aren't gonna accomplish anything by playing Howard 70 games.

He can't even address your point.

Nobody can logically refute this point.
So they pretend you didnt say it

 

[Claypool]

He can't even address your point.

Nobody can logically refute this point.
So they pretend you didnt say it

There's nothing to address. Blashill wants to win, thus he plays Howard. You may have an argument if Mrazek was playing better than Howard, or maybe if they were playing about equal. Mrazek is statistically one of the worst goalies in the NHL two years in a row now. Teams have better options.

 

[Red Stanley]

Good Lord. You speak as if Mrazek is the only goalie in the NHL who's ever had a setback.
Maybe you don't remember but this team tried to trade Howard too, when his value dwindled to nothing.
Maybe you remember? When he didn't finish a playoff series for 3 straight years?

Jimmy Howard hasn't finished a ****ing playoff series in goal for the Red Wings since the Chicago series - when he lost three straight games.
Maybe you don't know that Howard is 1-7 with a .911 sv% in his last 9 playoff games.

And the local media and 80 percent of the posters in here act like he's a god damn savior..

That's fine. You keep aping the clueless backers of Holland and Blashill.
Even as you pretend you -- and you alone -- want this team to improve.

If you had any desire at all to improve this team, you'd know that selling any 30+ year old with value is Job #1.

Job #1 for improving this team is trading Green for a 1st. Howard still has a modified NTC for this year and will want to be a starter wherever he goes. He's trickier to move right now, though it would be nice to see them both traded. What is likely to happen is they trade Green, hope Jimmy finishes out the year strong and shop him around next year and just let Mrazek walk if nobody wants give us anything for him (which looks like it might be the case). In that scenario it makes more sense that they're still riding Howard and not too interested in doing anything with Mrazek, though I'm all for letting Mrazek play more.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

There's nothing to address. Blashill wants to win, thus he plays Howard. You may have an argument if Mrazek was playing better than Howard, or maybe if they were playing about equal. Mrazek is statistically one of the worst goalies in the NHL two years in a row now. Teams have better options.

It's not entirely up to Blashill. If the Wings were going to make the playoffs, riding Howard all season might make sense.

42 games into the season and giving Mrazek only 9 starts makes no sense. It's like management is still delusional as to where this team is.

 

[Claypool]

It's not entirely up to Blashill. If the Wings were going to make the playoffs, riding Howard all season might make sense.

42 games into the season and giving Mrazek only 9 starts makes no sense. It's like management is still delusional as to where this team is.

Blashill has complete authority to decide who's in the lineup every night. Blashill isn't tanking. He secured his dream job that pays him millions. He's not flushing it down the toilet and risk being out of the league. He's coaching for his NHL career. If Holland wants to tank he can fire Blashill and coach the team the rest of the season and play whomever he wants.

There's no point in trying to argue with someone who wants to see Mrazek play more when he clearly hasn't earned the opportunity. He's an awful, awful goalie right now. He's been available since the summer. NOBODY WANTS HIM. The best thing the Red Wings can do is just ride the season out and let him walk in free agency. It sucks it ended this way but that's what happens when you sign a big contract and expect to carry the load then fall flat on your face.

 

[jkutswings]

It's still illogical. It needs to be one of:

1) Mrazek still has a shot at resurrecting his career with the Wings. So play him more often than once in a blue moon, and see if he can turn things around.

2) Mrazek really is toast, and has no realistic shot at regaining any decent form (at least with this organization). Therefore, there is zero reason to keep him on the roster. Waive him and bring up Coreau to get some NHL games, and see how he handles it.

But keeping him on the roster, just to collect dust, is crazy.

 

[Claypool]

It's still illogical. It needs to be one of:

1) Mrazek still has a shot at resurrecting his career with the Wings. So play him more often than once in a blue moon, and see if he can turn things around.

2) Mrazek really is toast, and has no realistic shot at regaining any decent form (at least with this organization). Therefore, there is zero reason to keep him on the roster. Waive him and bring up Coreau to get some NHL games, and see how he handles it.

But keeping him on the roster, just to collect dust, is crazy.

It's entirely possible Howard is moved this offseason and they qualify Mrazek at $4.1 million for another season. Teams like Buffalo or New York Islanders may want a capable veteran on a one-year prove it deal rather than dip into free agency this summer. I have a feeling University of Maine alumni Garth Snow would love to have Howard.

Ultimately, I think the goaltending situation involving Mrazek is of little consequence and overall a minor distraction. It's going to sort itself out this summer regardless. They both aren't coming back.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's still illogical. It needs to be one of:

1) Mrazek still has a shot at resurrecting his career with the Wings. So play him more often than once in a blue moon, and see if he can turn things around.

2) Mrazek really is toast, and has no realistic shot at regaining any decent form (at least with this organization). Therefore, there is zero reason to keep him on the roster. Waive him and bring up Coreau to get some NHL games, and see how he handles it.

But keeping him on the roster, just to collect dust, is crazy.

1) Blashill's priorities are to win the next game. That's it. We may disagree about how he tries to do it, but it's a fact. He can't worry about whether Mrazek or Howard is going to be on the Wings 5 years from now, he wants to win the next game. Who gives him a better chance? Howard or Mrazek?

2) Coreau is hardly pushing for a job this year, and we saw pretty well how he handled the NHL last year. We also have no desperate need to use Mrazek's salary elsewhere. From Holland's perspective it's probably better to either wait for a team to get desperate enough to offer something for Mrazk, or to have Mrazek around as a backup plan if Howard is injured.

I don't like Blashill but I also wouldn't just want a lame duck coach that does exactly what the GM tells him to do. Playing Mrazek to "see if he can turn things around" while a better goalie rides the pine is not only an obvious tanking move, it's something that would seriously hurt Blashill's reputation and potentially cost him opportunities and a career as an NHL coach.

 

[jkutswings]

Trying to win is fine. But when the "better" goaltender has an ironclad track record of getting hurt, and often returns from injury with lousy play, there's a sensible balance between playing him more often than the backup, and running him into the ground.

I have zero issue with Howard getting 2-3 starts for each time Mrazek plays. But they ran Jimmy out there for nearly 3 weeks straight, and he ended up getting hurt. Yet again.

 

[turkleton85]

Trying to win is fine. But when the "better" goaltender has an ironclad track record of getting hurt, and often returns from injury with lousy play, there's a sensible balance between playing him more often than the backup, and running him into the ground.

I have zero issue with Howard getting 2-3 starts for each time Mrazek plays. But they ran Jimmy out there for nearly 3 weeks straight, and he ended up getting hurt. Yet again.

yeah, blashill is walking a thin line. He probably sends out a prayer each night that jimmy survives the season. I would too, in his position.