Rumor: Red Wings nearing a trade involving Berggren?

[Petes2424]

pretty sure he meant 20+....thought that could have been inferred as a grammatical error but whatever.

200+ Game prospects are a way scouts/evaluators will categorize a prospect’s chances to play in the NHL. Basically saying they will play “at least” 200 games in the NHL, during their pro career. Detroit is loaded with them. Now, some may end up role players, and some may end up core pieces, but they will play in the NHL, at least 200 games. Only 300 games is higher. No different than saying A, B or C, but more defined..

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Ya that's it just alot of complaining. Who says hes on track? You? We don't know if he'll ever be anything. What we do know is the guy everyone said was the best goalie from Sweden since Lundqvist has a 935% as a 21 year old. Shouldnt even be up for debate who would have been the better pick


200+ prospects? More than other teams developing? Lmaoo don't know how you came up with that math . I do know outside our first rounders I'm not getting overly excited on other guys. Hanas for example will be 22 next month, will he make the team next year? Easy no ,that means he wont be ready till hes 24 ... how many players who make the league as a 24 year old turn out to be a impact guy?

I'm not as confident about all these guys as you are. We got excited for years with hakans picks and as much as I love the guy its been a long time since he hit a homerun

I told you already I'd have zero problems dealing fabbri. I dont care that hes red hot now is the time to move him. He will get hurt again,I'd be beyond shocked if he played every game till the end

Perron and sprong wont be resigned. Wouldnt think twice to deal one of them now. I'd take berggren over them

They over did it with the veterans not just the back end. I'm sorry but we also need the kids. We wont win the cup until our prospects show up and you keep talking about about needing to play a style of hockey to win but we also need guys with offensive talent which he has. More than veleno etc...

Has nothing to do with being spoiled with datsyuk etc... you've just convinced yourself our prospects will hit cause its yzerman. Think in his first year all we have is seider and possibly soderblom. It's far from guaranteed these guys after 1st round will not only make it but be impactful guys

Petes hasn't convinced himself of anything. The reality is that Detroit has guys in their minors who might actually turn into something whereas in Holland's last years... an alarmingly high number of message board posters were creaming themselves over Givani Smith, Mitch Callahan, and Taro Hirose. The Wings have prospects with legitimate pedigrees as being really good hockey players. It's far more likely that we have a few guys like Wallinder and Mazur hit than the Wings go 0-fer.

Also, I can tell you know jack point shit about how goalies develop. Wallstedt may easily end up better than Cossa... but like a month of AHL hockey isn't remotely indiciative of "HOLY SHIT THEY f***ED THAT PICK". Wallstedt seems more steady and Cossa seems more boom or bust. Like if Cossa hits, we'll have a Ben Bishop type for a decade. Goalies are pixie dust. You don't know what you have with a goalie until long after he's already in the big time. I mean, guys like Andrew Raycroft and Vesa Toskala looked like really good goalies heading up to the NHL and then they were among the worst in the last 30 years.

 

[Detroit Knights]

200+ Game prospects are a way scouts/evaluators will categorize a prospect’s chances to play in the NHL. Basically saying they will play “at least” 200 games in the NHL, during their pro career. Detroit is loaded with them. Now, some may end up role players, and some may end up core pieces, but they will play in the NHL, at least 200 games. Only 300 games is higher. No different than saying A, B or C, but more defined..

Then I stand corrected

 

[RedHawkDown]

Petes hasn't convinced himself of anything. The reality is that Detroit has guys in their minors who might actually turn into something whereas in Holland's last years... an alarmingly high number of message board posters were creaming themselves over Givani Smith, Mitch Callahan, and Taro Hirose. The Wings have prospects with legitimate pedigrees as being really good hockey players. It's far more likely that we have a few guys like Wallinder and Mazur hit than the Wings go 0-fer.

Also, I can tell you know jack point shit about how goalies develop. Wallstedt may easily end up better than Cossa... but like a month of AHL hockey isn't remotely indiciative of "HOLY SHIT THEY f***ED THAT PICK". Wallstedt seems more steady and Cossa seems more boom or bust. Like if Cossa hits, we'll have a Ben Bishop type for a decade. Goalies are pixie dust. You don't know what you have with a goalie until long after he's already in the big time. I mean, guys like Andrew Raycroft and Vesa Toskala looked like really good goalies heading up to the NHL and then they were among the worst in the last 30 years.

While I am optimistic about most of our prospects, this is not really that accurate. We had guys like Zadina and Svechnikov who we still had high hopes for in Holland's last few years. Svech scored 51 pts in 74 games in his D+2 in the AHL, which is way better than Kasper is doing now, for example. Zadina had 35 in 59 as an 18 year old in the AHL, and then had 16 in 21 the next year at age 19 - if Kasper was having a similar D+2, we'd all be creaming ourselves at how great of a pick he is/was.

Both of these guys, as two random examples, were trending better at the same stage than Kasper, Mazur, Danielson, Soderblom, Hanas, etc... It's revisionist history to pretend like our picks are doing way better in the junior leagues now than they were then. I still think we'll have some good players out of that bunch instead of busts but let's not pretend like we knew all of Holland's picks were busts until they made the NHL.

Also, I still think Cossa can be a good goalie, but it's strange to see people attempt to discredit other players so strongly. Wallstedt has shown nothing but elite skill since the day he was drafted, and there's no reason to believe he has any lower ceiling than Cossa. You say if Cossa hits, he'll be a Ben Bishop type - I agree. If Wallstedt hits, he'll be a Lundqvist type. Both can be true, and even if Cossa does well, it doesn't mean that Wallstedt still wasn't the better pick.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Has enough time passed without a trade for us to laugh at Pagnotta?

 

[raymond23]

Has enough time passed without a trade for us to laugh at Pagnotta?

I wouldn't be surprised if Berggren's team had a conversation with Yzerman recently

Not sure if it will lead to a trade or not

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I wouldn't be surprised if Berggren's team had a conversation with Yzerman recently

Not sure if it will lead to a trade or not

Maybe. But for me, if it comes to the point of "I'd like an opportunity or to be traded", that'll be when it's time to move Fabbri.

Guy is playing the best hockey of his career. If he continues, we probably can't afford to keep him in two years. If he doesn't, we missed out on selling him at an all time high. That's not even taking into account how injury prone he is.

And I don't think Beggren in a Top 6 role is a serious enough downgrade to dismiss the value Fabbri might return right now.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Just noticed on Habs board Zegras could be guy we after. He sounds like more offensive player we need. But I don't know west conf. well. Or what Ducks would want?

Good question. From what I see, goaltending if they move on from Gibson , and wingers to replace the vets. I believe their strong in the middle and have good D prospects

 

[Scintillating10]

Good question. From what I see, goaltending if they move on from Gibson , and wingers to replace the vets. I believe their strong in the middle and have good D prospects

I am a little worried about Zegras numbers this season though.

 

[letsgowings9999]

These are the type of people who end up making long, pissy posts about how Yzerman hasn't turned the team into a contender in 4 years...

"I'm expecting we sign Draisaitl". Yeah, because 31 other teams wont be trying to do the same thing.

Yes I'm like everyone else and will be upset yzerman hasnt made us contenders lmao nice one ham

I was upset we signed all these players and wanted the likes of edvinsson and berggren on the team game 1. Wanted one more year in bottom 10 and a crack at the lottery cause didnt think we'd make the playoffs(I still don't)

Hopeful for draisaitl but it was a joke cause hes german and we have seider. Still think theres a chance but I'm not banking on it. Keep assuming shit though lol

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Doubt Anaheim is trading Zegras for marketing reasons alone.

Yes I'm like everyone else and will be upset yzerman hasnt made us contenders lmao nice one ham

I was upset we signed all these players and wanted the likes of edvinsson and berggren on the team game 1. Wanted one more year in bottom 10 and a crack at the lottery cause didnt think we'd make the playoffs(I still don't)

Hopeful for draisaitl but it was a joke cause hes german and we have seider. Still think theres a chance but I'm not banking on it. Keep assuming shit though lol

"Hopeful for Draisaitl but it was a joke"... That you've brought up in three separate posts.

 

[letsgowings9999]

Petes hasn't convinced himself of anything. The reality is that Detroit has guys in their minors who might actually turn into something whereas in Holland's last years... an alarmingly high number of message board posters were creaming themselves over Givani Smith, Mitch Callahan, and Taro Hirose. The Wings have prospects with legitimate pedigrees as being really good hockey players. It's far more likely that we have a few guys like Wallinder and Mazur hit than the Wings go 0-fer.

Also, I can tell you know jack point shit about how goalies develop. Wallstedt may easily end up better than Cossa... but like a month of AHL hockey isn't remotely indiciative of "HOLY SHIT THEY f***ED THAT PICK". Wallstedt seems more steady and Cossa seems more boom or bust. Like if Cossa hits, we'll have a Ben Bishop type for a decade. Goalies are pixie dust. You don't know what you have with a goalie until long after he's already in the big time. I mean, guys like Andrew Raycroft and Vesa Toskala looked like really good goalies heading up to the NHL and then they were among the worst in the last 30 years.

Hirose lmao dont even think Callahan's still playing hockey haha

We have guys in the minors who "might" turn into something... you said it might . I hope so but lets not pretend it's a sure thing. Hakan is one or the best scouts and he hasnt hit something in ages

Lmao your the expert on goalies development now huh? I'm well aware goalies take longer to develop than skaters and its hard to determine if a goalie will develop into a #1 goalie or not which is why they're barely drafted in the 1s round . Thanks for the tips ... I also know wallstedt was Sweden's best goalie prospect since Lundqvist and that's not someone you pass on given the opportunity which we did.

Now I hope cossa turns into something cause god knows we need it. Also know if yzerman was 100% good we wouldn't have taken Augustine. Until cossa surpasses wallstedt I'll keep saying we f***ed up

 

[letsgowings9999]

Doubt Anaheim is trading Zegras for marketing reasons alone.


"Hopeful for Draisaitl but it was a joke"... That you've brought up in three separate posts.

Nice one sideburns

 

[OccidentalOctopus]

Has enough time passed without a trade for us to laugh at Pagnotta?

It's always time to laugh at Pagnotta.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

I am a little worried about Zegras numbers this season though.

Typical for young guys but the talent is there. We don’t have many like him at all!

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

While I am optimistic about most of our prospects, this is not really that accurate. We had guys like Zadina and Svechnikov who we still had high hopes for in Holland's last few years. Svech scored 51 pts in 74 games in his D+2 in the AHL, which is way better than Kasper is doing now, for example. Zadina had 35 in 59 as an 18 year old in the AHL, and then had 16 in 21 the next year at age 19 - if Kasper was having a similar D+2, we'd all be creaming ourselves at how great of a pick he is/was.

Both of these guys, as two random examples, were trending better at the same stage than Kasper, Mazur, Danielson, Soderblom, Hanas, etc... It's revisionist history to pretend like our picks are doing way better in the junior leagues now than they were then. I still think we'll have some good players out of that bunch instead of busts but let's not pretend like we knew all of Holland's picks were busts until they made the NHL.

Also, I still think Cossa can be a good goalie, but it's strange to see people attempt to discredit other players so strongly. Wallstedt has shown nothing but elite skill since the day he was drafted, and there's no reason to believe he has any lower ceiling than Cossa. You say if Cossa hits, he'll be a Ben Bishop type - I agree. If Wallstedt hits, he'll be a Lundqvist type. Both can be true, and even if Cossa does well, it doesn't mean that Wallstedt still wasn't the better pick.

Majority of this is very fair. But your two random choices also happened to be two first round picks. But the bigger thing is that as you write... you've got five guys you list off the top of your head with promise. Outside of Svech and Zadina and Veleno... the Wings pool was very shallow.

Hirose lmao dont even think Callahan's still playing hockey haha

We have guys in the minors who "might" turn into something... you said it might . I hope so but lets not pretend it's a sure thing. Hakan is one or the best scouts and he hasnt hit something in ages

Lmao your the expert on goalies development now huh? I'm well aware goalies take longer to develop than skaters and its hard to determine if a goalie will develop into a #1 goalie or not which is why they're barely drafted in the 1s round . Thanks for the tips ... I also know wallstedt was Sweden's best goalie prospect since Lundqvist and that's not someone you pass on given the opportunity which we did.

Now I hope cossa turns into something cause god knows we need it. Also know if yzerman was 100% good we wouldn't have taken Augustine. Until cossa surpasses wallstedt I'll keep saying we f***ed up

Not pretending it is a sure thing. But that it's a f***in damn sight better now that we have half a dozen guys with a greater chance of playing significant games than not instead of having a couple first and second round picks that stick and literally nothing from the rest of the draft for a decade.

I'm not an expert on goalie development now, I just realize that taking sv% and using that as your one data point as to whether a goalie is better than another is a complete fools errand. Sure, you can like Wallstedt better. He's a fabulous prospect. And I was wrong to knock him to pump Cossa. But until a goalie actually makes the NHL, I'm not going to say this guy is better than that guy. Because Petr Mrazek looked like a f***in world beater at the World Juniors and a stud and a half in like 25 games in Detroit. Then, he flamed all the way out.

Frankly, the fact that Detroit did skip over Wallstedt for Cossa gave me pause about Wallstedt. Because you know they were vetting the hell out of him.

 

[letsgowings9999]

Majority of this is very fair. But your two random choices also happened to be two first round picks. But the bigger thing is that as you write... you've got five guys you list off the top of your head with promise. Outside of Svech and Zadina and Veleno... the Wings pool was very shallow.



Not pretending it is a sure thing. But that it's a f***in damn sight better now that we have half a dozen guys with a greater chance of playing significant games than not instead of having a couple first and second round picks that stick and literally nothing from the rest of the draft for a decade.

I'm not an expert on goalie development now, I just realize that taking sv% and using that as your one data point as to whether a goalie is better than another is a complete fools errand. Sure, you can like Wallstedt better. He's a fabulous prospect. And I was wrong to knock him to pump Cossa. But until a goalie actually makes the NHL, I'm not going to say this guy is better than that guy. Because Petr Mrazek looked like a f***in world beater at the World Juniors and a stud and a half in like 25 games in Detroit. Then, he flamed all the way out.

Frankly, the fact that Detroit did skip over Wallstedt for Cossa gave me pause about Wallstedt. Because you know they were vetting the hell out of him.

I hope your right but outside the 1st rounders its alot of hope . I dont think outside hopefully Albert johanson being something (although we also thought highly of lindstrom) i don't see anything coming from those 2nd rounders ,niederbach,hanas etc...

Hopeful on soderblom and lombardi but its hope. As for cossa from what I read yzerman trusted Osgood of all people cause he wouldnt shut up about how he loved how confident cossa was. Osgood's to blame

I was high on mrazek as well after his world juniors but he as well as cossa wasn't highly touted as the next best goalie prospect in Sweden since Lundqvist who's a legend. I'm sorry I dont know how you cant draft someone with all that praise. He dominated prior to being drafted and since

Unless something crazy happens it looks like this might be a big f*** up. I can picture it now.... wings in the playoffs and losing cause cossa gave up a few stinkers while wallstedt is up for the vezina lol fans will have a meltdown