Rebuild/Retool?

[LordKOTL]

i agree but the dilemma, what can the team do in the next 3 yrs ..... nothing ?? would the owners like that, ?? will the fans like that ??

It's the reality of the sport. Teams ebb and flow. This isn't the 1st time something like this happened to any team--much less the 1t time it happened to the 'hawks.

While it would be stupid for the GM to sit on his butt and do nothing, if they can't do a rebuild on the fly by moving out the highest-paid under-performing pieces for pieces that are performing, then they should be building up the pieces that will be coming in when the highest-paid underperforming contracts are expiring.

And that means building up guys like Forsling/El Gato. It also means looking at guys like Dauphin, Hino, Snuggie, and The Joker and see what they're projected out as since their timeline would put them in when TKKS' contracts expire. And if the answer from them is no, then acquiring pieces that may be more of a yes.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

IMO it is unlikely the Cap goes up with the next CBA. Usually new CBAs=reduction in cap, hence the CBOs.

 

[ChiHawks10]

IMO it is unlikely the Cap goes up with the next CBA. Usually new CBAs=reduction in cap, hence the CBOs.

Yeah, but the cap is expected to potentially go up to 80-82m next year according to reports from Bettman. That's a 6-8m increase from this season.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

If Hawks are still out of a playoff spot come early-February I think it's time to drop Coach Q and unload some of the vets.
Tank the rest of the season and hope for a lottery miracle.

Dahlin-Forsling would be a helluva pair.

 

[Pez68]

If Hawks are still out of a playoff spot come early-February I think it's time to drop Coach Q and unload some of the vets.
Tank the rest of the season and hope for a lottery miracle.

Dahlin-Forsling would be a helluva pair.

I think if the Hawks are a few spots out of the playoffs by the ASB, Q is gone. At least, I sure hope he is...

 

[Rooh]

May as well blow it up with some of these lines Q is putting together.

 

[LDF]

What are you talking about here? They can play hockey. They can let their GM do his job, and try to put the best team on the ice as they possibly can each season. They can fire the coach, or "promote" him, or whatever they feel like doing with him.

People need to stop talking about this team like they're the damn Avs or Yotes. With very poor play a large chunk of this season, they're still only out of a playoff spot by a single damn point. And they're always good for at least a string of 6-8 wins in a row at any point in the season.

Why do people act like the Hawks have to dominate and win the division in order to have success in the playoffs?

then remember this blind faith that the team will fix itself. remind me come playoff time. also remember the thread where everyone predicted what the team will do at season end.

 

[LDF]

It's the reality of the sport. Teams ebb and flow. This isn't the 1st time something like this happened to any team--much less the 1t time it happened to the 'hawks.

While it would be stupid for the GM to sit on his butt and do nothing, if they can't do a rebuild on the fly by moving out the highest-paid under-performing pieces for pieces that are performing, then they should be building up the pieces that will be coming in when the highest-paid underperforming contracts are expiring.

And that means building up guys like Forsling/El Gato. It also means looking at guys like Dauphin, Hino, Snuggie, and The Joker and see what they're projected out as since their timeline would put them in when TKKS' contracts expire. And if the answer from them is no, then acquiring pieces that may be more of a yes.

excellent, this ref the bold, is the conclusion i came to last season, btw with this thought process, you have done more than what the GM has done so far.

 

[BK]

excellent, this ref the bold, is what i came to last season, btw with this thought process, you have done more than what the GM has done so far.

I mean really? Are people naive enough to think Stan is just sitting there playing chess or words with friends? Making moves to make moves is worse than not making a move.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

People thought the Hawks run was over going into 13 keep in mind.

 

[LDF]

I mean really? Are people naive enough to think Stan is just sitting there playing chess or words with friends? Making moves to make moves is worse than not making a move.

yeah, it was obvious after the last season exit, when he traded hammer and Q left the draft,

what were your thought on Q leaving....

 

[LDF]

People thought the Hawks run was over going into 13 keep in mind.

not i, i just look at it as, now i am a happy man, my fav sports team won the SC in my life time, btw the Sox is my 2nd fav team and they too won the World Series.

a very simple outlook.

 

[Robsker]

They're retooling for sure. If Toews doesn't return to form, it wont matter.

Toews will not return to form. he has been Toews 0.6 or less (60% of his 2010-2015 performance) the past 2 years running and this year. He is never going to get better than he is now --- or, if so, only marginally. he is long done being a super star. He is no longer a star --- even remotely. he is a good player --- but he will not ever be even a shadow of his old self . So... the Hawks will have to live with that and the salary. And, Kane will not improve with time. neither will Seabs or Duncs. The best these aging players will be is what we see now. Time will have them --- like EVERY OTHER PLAYER EVER --- diminish in skill with time. Their salaries will, however, remain. And this prevents back-filling the team with talent. it also makes signing our best emerging players long-term unlikely as well.

The very players who so contributed to the Cups we have are the same players whose salaries are now the main reason that the Hawks will be unlikely to overly compete these next 2-3 years. Good players with great player salaries and OK players with good player salaries do not cut it.

Until one or more of those salaries are gone --- the Hawks will not compete overly. Oh, making the playoffs maybe, maybe not. Contend for a Cup? Not a chance. I assume we are 2-3 years out before any retirements of these guys. So... do the math. the rebuild will start in earnest when that $ is freed up... and no sooner. It is most probable that then it will take a few years. So... I envision the Hawks will be like they are now +/- a small amount) for the next 3-5 years.

Oh... I do not think that Toews or Seabs could be traded --- no matter who you package with them. So trades are really, really unlikely. Unless they move Crow and Kane or Duncs --- they can be moved --- but will (or should) that be done? Who knows. All that is certain is the Cap has come and done its job. the Hawks are not a contender for the foreseeable future. Not a complaint mind you... just reality and part of the cycling --- seen it play out for decades and quite used to it. So... just enjoy what we have and readjust expectations. making the playoffs this year and into the foreseeable future is the goal --- may happen, may not. make the playoffs and the season is a grand success. that is all one can hope for this and the next few years. Cups are out of the question.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Toews will not return to form. he has been Toews 0.6 or less (60% of his 2010-2015 performance) the past 2 years running and this year. He is never going to get better than he is now --- or, if so, only marginally. he is long done being a super star. He is no longer a star --- even remotely. he is a good player --- but he will not ever be even a shadow of his old self . So... the Hawks will have to live with that and the salary. And, Kane will not improve with time. neither will Seabs or Duncs. The best these aging players will be is what we see now. Time will have them --- like EVERY OTHER PLAYER EVER --- diminish in skill with time. Their salaries will, however, remain. And this prevents back-filling the team with talent. it also makes signing our best emerging players long-term unlikely as well.

The very players who so contributed to the Cups we have are the same players whose salaries are now the main reason that the Hawks will be unlikely to overly compete these next 2-3 years. Good players with great player salaries and OK players with good player salaries do not cut it.

Until one or more of those salaries are gone --- the Hawks will not compete overly. Oh, making the playoffs maybe, maybe not. Contend for a Cup? Not a chance. I assume we are 2-3 years out before any retirements of these guys. So... do the math. the rebuild will start in earnest when that $ is freed up... and no sooner. It is most probable that then it will take a few years. So... I envision the Hawks will be like they are now +/- a small amount) for the next 3-5 years.

Oh... I do not think that Toews or Seabs could be traded --- no matter who you package with them. So trades are really, really unlikely. Unless they move Crow and Kane or Duncs --- they can be moved --- but will (or should) that be done? Who knows. All that is certain is the Cap has come and done its job. the Hawks are not a contender for the foreseeable future. Not a complaint mind you... just reality and part of the cycling --- seen it play out for decades and quite used to it. So... just enjoy what we have and readjust expectations. making the playoffs this year and into the foreseeable future is the goal --- may happen, may not. make the playoffs and the season is a grand success. that is all one can hope for this and the next few years. Cups are out of the question.

When the Hawks won the cup in 15 Toews had 66 pts in 81 games. Last year he had 58 pts in 72 games which is a 66 pt pace. The idea that there was some perceptions drop after the last cup run is false.

He has to play better, no question.

 

[ChiHawks10]

excellent, this ref the bold, is what i came to last season, btw with this thought process, you have done more than what the GM has done so far.

Toews will not return to form. he has been Toews 0.6 or less (60% of his 2010-2015 performance) the past 2 years running and this year. He is never going to get better than he is now --- or, if so, only marginally. he is long done being a super star. He is no longer a star --- even remotely. he is a good player --- but he will not ever be even a shadow of his old self . So... the Hawks will have to live with that and the salary. And, Kane will not improve with time. neither will Seabs or Duncs. The best these aging players will be is what we see now. Time will have them --- like EVERY OTHER PLAYER EVER --- diminish in skill with time. Their salaries will, however, remain. And this prevents back-filling the team with talent. it also makes signing our best emerging players long-term unlikely as well.

The very players who so contributed to the Cups we have are the same players whose salaries are now the main reason that the Hawks will be unlikely to overly compete these next 2-3 years. Good players with great player salaries and OK players with good player salaries do not cut it.

Until one or more of those salaries are gone --- the Hawks will not compete overly. Oh, making the playoffs maybe, maybe not. Contend for a Cup? Not a chance. I assume we are 2-3 years out before any retirements of these guys. So... do the math. the rebuild will start in earnest when that $ is freed up... and no sooner. It is most probable that then it will take a few years. So... I envision the Hawks will be like they are now +/- a small amount) for the next 3-5 years.

Oh... I do not think that Toews or Seabs could be traded --- no matter who you package with them. So trades are really, really unlikely. Unless they move Crow and Kane or Duncs --- they can be moved --- but will (or should) that be done? Who knows. All that is certain is the Cap has come and done its job. the Hawks are not a contender for the foreseeable future. Not a complaint mind you... just reality and part of the cycling --- seen it play out for decades and quite used to it. So... just enjoy what we have and readjust expectations. making the playoffs this year and into the foreseeable future is the goal --- may happen, may not. make the playoffs and the season is a grand success. that is all one can hope for this and the next few years. Cups are out of the question.

A. Toews is absolutely movable. If you don't think a team would scoop him up in a heartbeat if you offered the right trade then you're crazy, IMO. He's still a very good player, and moderately bad contracts are traded consistently throughout the NHL.

B. The cap doesn't stay stagnant most years. They're talking about it going up 5-7m for the start of next season. That's literally the salary of a very good top 6 player, and in most cases, a top line player. So the idea that the Hawks will not be able to sign any of their quality young players is ludicrous.

C. To think that things can't be done to retool this team into a contender is crazy. Look at the Penguins. Enough said.

 

[LDF]

A. Toews is absolutely movable. If you don't think a team would scoop him up in a heartbeat if you offered the right trade then you're crazy, IMO. He's still a very good player, and moderately bad contracts are traded consistently throughout the NHL.

B. The cap doesn't stay stagnant most years. They're talking about it going up 5-7m for the start of next season. That's literally the salary of a very good top 6 player, and in most cases, a top line player. So the idea that the Hawks will not be able to sign any of their quality young players is ludicrous.

C. To think that things can't be done to retool this team into a contender is crazy. Look at the Penguins. Enough said.

ref to A. i am contented for Toews retiring as a Bhawk. i have no wish to trade him.

B. it is understandable that the cap will go up.

C. you must need to have faith in the GM, which i do not. but you need to understand that retooling means the Bhawks needs to move Seabs contract.

 

[migi]

1) Let Schmaltz play as center as much as possible because if it pans out, we still have Toews as great center. We need one & two punch now because Toews isnt elite anymore.
2) play DeBrincat and Hayden in bigger role
3) sign Sikura and play him with Saad and Toews right away
4) well I would like to see Seabrook traded, but yeah, heh. Trade Kempny, Oesterle, Franson away for couple of 4-5 round picks, bring Snuggerud up to compete for a spot next season already
5) Bouma or Wingels aint problem but bring Dauphin or somebody up for next season

Retool more on the fly and if they could get into playoffs, good. If cap goes more up, first thing to do is try to trade Seabrook even with some retention. If its impossible with addition like Hartman, then wait for CBO. Anisimov can stay if cap keeps going up.

This year:

DeBrincat - Schmaltz - Kane
Saad - Toews - Sikura
Hartman - Anisimov - Hayden (put Hartsys value up with more icetime)
Sharp - Dauphin - Wingels

Forsling - Rutta
Keith - Murphy
Snuggerud - Seabrook

Next year: dunno but keep hoping for the best and all of them pans out. Maybe even tank again and go after Jack Hughes. And win more Cups! And yeah, this year get Dahlin or Boqvist.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

When the Hawks won the cup in 15 Toews had 66 pts in 81 games. Last year he had 58 pts in 72 games which is a 66 pt pace. The idea that there was some perceptions drop after the last cup run is false.

He has to play better, no question.

It is fair to say Toews has been terrible two seasons running, even in 2014-2015 his game was falling but this was masked thanks to Hossa and Saad.

Last year his season was somewhat salvaged thanks to a huge outlier 3 weeks that has never seem him produce like that before but it was still a terrible year for him that saw him put up a career low in goals.

and he doesn't look any better this year so 2 seasons + is fair.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Yes I do believe Toews is movable and it would be the right move for a retool no question, Seabrook would be much harder.. but some teams have to get to the cap floor so you never know.

Could you imagine getting Toews' money off the book and then using all of that + the rise in the cap to sign Tavares? It is a dream I know but that move would probably make the Hawks the instant favorites for the cup.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

It is fair to say Toews has been terrible two seasons running, even in 2014-2015 his game was falling but this was masked thanks to Hossa and Saad.

Last year his season was somewhat salvaged thanks to a huge outlier 3 weeks that has never seem him produce like that before but it was still a terrible year for him that saw him put up a career low in goals.

and he doesn't look any better this year so 2 seasons + is fair.

Yes I do believe Toews is movable and it would be the right move for a retool no question, Seabrook would be much harder.. but some teams have to get to the cap floor so you never know.

Could you imagine getting Toews' money off the book and then using all of that + the rise in the cap to sign Tavares? It is a dream I know but that move would probably make the Hawks the instant favorites for the cup.

Lol. Guess how many point Tavares had last year? 66

Toews 66 pts or 66 pt pace, garbage, must be moved, but Tavares gets 66, and wouldn't it be amazing to sign him for 8 years. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Lol. Guess how many point Tavares had last year? 66

Toews 66 pts or 66 pt pace, garbage, must be moved, but Tavares gets 66, and wouldn't it be amazing to sign him for 8 years. You can't make this stuff up.

and this year Tavares has more goals than Toews has points (if you don't count his empty net points)

oh...

 

[Pez68]

It's a contract year... Of course he's killing it. He's going to get paid.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

It's a contract year... Of course he's killing it. He's going to get paid.

He's shooting 21.5% as well when his career shooting % is 13.0.

Tavares is great, no question. But the difference between him in Toews isn't all that much and in 2-3 years people will likely be complaining about him being overpaid as well.

 

[BK]

and this year Tavares has more goals than Toews has points (if you don't count his empty net points)

oh...

Why? Next we will be trying to no count goals scored when the goalie was out of position.

A goal is a goal and an assist is an assist. If you need to try and discount either your argument is most likely not very good.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

He would get paid even if he was playing as bad as Jonathan Toews, everyone gets paid in NHL free agency.

Tavares is an elite, top 5 center in the NHL and anyone who wouldn't drop Toews to sign him can't really be a Hawk fan in my books.