Rebuild or Not, the Leafs Are a Much Improved Team: NHL

[Ricky Bobby]

Another proponent of the Edmonton model

You don't "tank" in this league and win anything anymore. How are Edmonton, Buffalo, Columbus doing?

A team like Ottawa never tanked and they are pretty good with a good future ahead of them

Florida is the exception to the rule (actually they are not, took them 10 years or so to be a decent team)

Blue Jackets didn't tank last year.

Buffalo has been missing their starting goalie all year so don't think that hasn't affected them.

The Oilers have also started turning the corner but they've been the hardest hit team in the league by injuries. McDavid has only played 13 games, Yakupov 22, Eberle, 28, Schultz 27, Klefbom 30, Pouliot 32, Schultz, 27.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I see Rielly, Gardiner, and Kadri. JvR is going to be too expensive for what he brings in 2 years (or whenever his current contract expires). I wouldn't re-sign JvR for 6+ mil. Especially if Marner and Nylander look like the real deal.

You would have to include Kadri in there. I know everyone is high on Nylander/Marner but I haven't seen them play center yet. We aren't exactly teeming with center depth at the moment. Plus it's hard to predict that all the players are going through an NHL career injury free.

We can have a now core:
Kadri/JVR/Gardiner/Komarov/Rielly

And a future core (Rielly + others) at the same time.
That's how you stay on top. Constantly replenishing the system.

- Rielly
- Gardiner (Likely)
- JVR (Maybe)
- Phaneuf (Maybe)
- Kadri (Maybe)
- Komarov (Maybe)
- Reimer/Bernier (Maybe)

So to me Rielly is the only guarantee. Gardiner is the most likely. Then 5 other possibilities.

So yes, this team is much improved, but right now it's the system, and coaching. Which is great, but this roster is going to be completely turned over still.

Can't see either goaltender here long term - injuries and inconsistency between the 2 of them is probably driving Babcock nuts.

I am surprised as well about you guys thinking Kadri is a possibility. I really only see him as a placeholder. I think Nylander is gonna end up as our 1-2C, and we're gonna want someone that isn't Kadri in that 1-2C spot. I am not saying it's impossible I just don't think he fits in our long term plans.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I am not going to lie and say I would rather team structure, (decent) play - rather than a top end prospect. However, I do like what we are doing here. I initially was upset that Babcock may have came a year early and will only coach a mediocre team to a middle of the pack finish (he still might) - but I am starting to see his real worth, we aren't Edmonton. The flawed method of letting your kids/prospects be 'okay' with losing and allotting a ton of talented prospects in hopes that one day, they will remember what winning is. We had a rotten mentality only a year ago - that is, by all accounts, gone.

I hope we progress, but also look forward to what our guys can do with draft picks. I am eager to see when we eventually input our future into this system.

 

[Trapper]

Can't see either goaltender here long term - injuries and inconsistency between the 2 of them is probably driving Babcock nuts.

I am surprised as well about you guys thinking Kadri is a possibility. I really only see him as a placeholder. I think Nylander is gonna end up as our 1-2C, and we're gonna want someone that isn't Kadri in that 1-2C spot. I am not saying it's impossible I just don't think he fits in our long term plans.

A placeholder could still be 5 more years.
In 5 years Nylander/Kappy are 23, Marner 22, whoever we draft 21.
To have a team/organization that maintains yearly success you probably want steps in age from the top to the bottom. Like the wings.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg vets
Prime players like Nyquist/Tatar
Young players like Larkin
Next up players like Mantha etc.
Repeat. You learn from the group ahead and teach the group behind.

 

[Leaf Lander]

They won't win a playoff series with this team

Fools gold

 

[TLeafsFan]

I'm not proposing we suck forever but this year we really need to add another blue chipper. We still have a long ways to go to become a legitimate contender.

We only have very good blue chippers in Rielly, Nylander and Marner who are good but not as great as everyone pumps them up when you compare to other teams core guys.

The rest of our prospects at this point are promising but they're far from key building blocks. They are hopeful building blocks but could just as easily be the next Wellwood, Coli, White, etc.

Chicago drafted Toews + Kane at the top of the draft in back to back years.

Pittsburgh we know the story about.

Carolina largely won a cup based off getting Staal + Ladd at the top of the draft.

LA largely won a cup by drafting Doughty + having Schenn as a trade chip to get Richards.

Washington is built around Ovi + Backstrom.

Tampa has been built around Stamkos + Hedman.

Every guy I've noted was a top 5 pick and instrumental to that team's fortunes.

The best thing for this franchise would be to follow up the Marner pick with another high end piece.

Nah, do you actually think Nylander would still have made it to 8th if he played in the CHL leading to his draft year?

 

[TLeafsFan]

They won't win a playoff series with this team

Fools gold

I don't expect them to either, any more than I expected the Marlies to last season.

 

[WTFMAN99]

A placeholder could still be 5 more years.
In 5 years Nylander/Kappy are 23, Marner 22, whoever we draft 21.
To have a team/organization that maintains yearly success you probably want steps in age from the top to the bottom. Like the wings.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg vets
Prime players like Nyquist/Tatar
Young players like Larkin
Next up players like Mantha etc.
Repeat. You learn from the group ahead and teach the group behind.

Worth noting, but I don't see Kadri getting a 5 year deal off of us, just stating my opinion.

It's a "What if" but what if the Leafs signed Stamkos (I've become a bit luke warm on this) or what if we drafted Matthews?

Matthews is NHL ready now, and Nylander will definitely be next year...keep Bozak for 3C and snag a vet 4th C?

 

[tml19]

They won't win a playoff series with this team

Fools gold

Once you are in, you have a chance no matter what.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Once you are in, you have a chance no matter what.

I think in the entire history of the playoffs with 16 teams, hasn't only 1 team that has placed lower then 6th seed won the cup?

8th place Los Angeles Kings (their 1st cup)

You have Calgary and Edmonton Cinderella stories but honestly, the whole "you have a chance" stuff is pretty silly to me. They aren't winning 4/7 against top tier teams.

 

[zeke]

They won't win a playoff series with this team

Fools gold

randy's leafs were fools gold.

but there is nothing fake about this team.

 

[TLeafsFan]

I think in the entire history of the playoffs with 16 teams, hasn't only 1 team that has placed lower then 6th seed won the cup?

8th place Los Angeles Kings (their 1st cup)

You have Calgary and Edmonton Cinderella stories but honestly, the whole "you have a chance" stuff is pretty silly to me. They aren't winning 4/7 against top tier teams.

The 1995 Devils just squeaked in during that 48 game season, too with 52 points. Enter the trap.

 

[TLeafsFan]

randy's leafs were fools gold.

but there is nothing fake about this team.

Nope. It is everything you see. Nobody's eyes, or stats are deceiving or unsustainable in any way.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I think the One thing everyone wanted to see this year was effort, and we got it now.

It's complete night and day, this team back checks, they exit and enter zones like beauts, and they never give up. They play just as hard losing 4-1 as tied 0-0.

Really loving the idea of Babs being able to mold our youngsters as well.

 

[ACC1224]

Once you are in, you have a chance no matter what.

Not realistically.

 

[tml19]

Not realistically.

Obviously way lower chances for the leafs but lets say we get J. Veznier for 3 weeks at the right time, playoffs are very unpredictable because of the low sample size.

 

[ACC1224]

Obviously way lower chances for the leafs but lets say we get J. Veznier for 3 weeks at the right time, playoffs are very unpredictable because of the low sample size.

Is that some type of illness?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Is that some type of illness?

It is. After we win the cup people will be saying man, was that Veznier ever sick.

 

[Stephen]

We already have 3 top five picks in Rielly and Marner and through trade JVR.

2 top tens in Kadri and Nylander.

These are players you can build the future core around these players. The Leafs prospect pool is already deemed to be in the top five of all NHL teams by all scouting experts. That will no doubt still continue to improve, without the need to add another top 5.

No, it's early in the process that another top 5 or two will really cement things together, which can be mixed in well with veteran additions and shrewd late round drafting.

Florida has Huberdeau, Barkov, Ekblad, Gudbranson, other first rounders like Kulikova nice batch of later round picks like Bjugstad, Trochek, etc. as well as Luongo, Jagr, etc. So in the long run we could definitely load up more, or face a shortage in elite foundation blocks later on.

 

[tml19]

Is that some type of illness?

Its contagious too

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I think in the entire history of the playoffs with 16 teams, hasn't only 1 team that has placed lower then 6th seed won the cup?

8th place Los Angeles Kings (their 1st cup)

You have Calgary and Edmonton Cinderella stories but honestly, the whole "you have a chance" stuff is pretty silly to me. They aren't winning 4/7 against top tier teams.

Only one team seeded lower than 4th has ever won in a full season.

 

[dirk41]

Another proponent of the Edmonton model

WTF is the Edmonton model? Failing to draft anyone outside of the first round? ****** coaching? Bad management? Failing to get D-men? Edmonton has struggled in spite of top draft picks, not because of them. There is no model here.

 

[dirk41]

Once you are in, you have a chance no matter what.

 

[tml19]

?
I didn't say we should expect to go far but winning a round is not all that far fetched.

 

[dirk41]

?
I didn't say we should expect to go far but winning a round is not all that far fetched.

And? I know you didn't say we should expect it, but you said there's a chance.

The Scene:
[blah blah chances]
Mary Swanson: I'd say more like one out of a million.
Lloyd Christmas: So you're telling me there's a chance... YEAH!

Yeah, if the Leafs get in, they have a chance, but it's all pretty hopeless.