News Article: Ranking Each Fanbases Confidence in Front Office

[Zarpan]

I don't know, maybe you just choice a pour team to show the difference, but part of why I would grade Tampa's drafting and developing high is because what they have produced. Also where in the draft some of these guys came from.

We have a few good looking 1st rounders, and one or two others looking strong, thats good but not great.

What I meant was that if Tampa had drafted and developed the same players that Vancouver did (at the same draft positions too), the drafting/developing ratings would go up since Tampa's management is seen as being very competent.

So Juolevi at #5 would automatically receive a higher grade if Tampa made that pick compared to Vancouver since people are inclined to give Vancouver's management a bunch of 2s and 3s, while Tampa gets 7s and 8s.

It is pretty clear that voters aren't entirely separating the category votes from their overall impressions of management.

 

[I in the Eye]

No matter who those 200 people are... their favourite teams, their demographics, their iq levels, if they are school age children or retired expert military strategists... those 200 are right. Benning is a baffoon. He is such an idiot, it's difficult to believe that the front office is not a make believe satire about baffoons in a position of power. The Canucks are a HBO show. Stats aren't even needed as validation... Why discredit the source? The eye test should be enough to confirm that Benning is outclassed as a NHL GM, in relation to his peers, both present and past. He's so out of his element that, when all is said and done, it might take a long time for a future GM to be seen as worse. Perhaps this future worse GM hasn't even been born yet...

 

[Flik]

No matter who those 200 people are... their favourite teams, their demographics, their iq levels, if they are school age children or retired expert military strategists... those 200 are right. Benning is a baffoon. He is such an idiot, it's difficult to believe that the front office is not a make believe satire about baffoons in a position of power. The Canucks are a HBO show. Stats aren't even needed as validation... Why discredit the source? The eye test should be enough to confirm that Benning is outclassed as a NHL GM, in relation to his peers, both present and past. He's so out of his element that, when all is said and done, it might take a long time for a future GM to be seen as worse. Perhaps this future worse GM hasn't even been born yet...

I want to take this post and frame it on my wall. No idea why it made me laugh so hard, but there it is.

 

[Cupless44]

The Province has picked up on this article and now has a poll on line so Vancouver can vote on the categories. Not going well for management.

 

[Scurr]

I'm confident that Benning isn't going to do anything that will hurt the team significantly going forward. Yeah, it would have been nice to have more picks. Yeah, it would have been nice to sign better players to those mid length contracts. Neither is going to kill the franchise, though, despite all the doom and gloom. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, though.

 

[racerjoe]

What I meant was that if Tampa had drafted and developed the same players that Vancouver did (at the same draft positions too), the drafting/developing ratings would go up since Tampa's management is seen as being very competent.

So Juolevi at #5 would automatically receive a higher grade if Tampa made that pick compared to Vancouver since people are inclined to give Vancouver's management a bunch of 2s and 3s, while Tampa gets 7s and 8s.

It is pretty clear that voters aren't entirely separating the category votes from their overall impressions of management.

And I am saying its too hard to just do that. 1 team deserves the benefit after many good to great drafts, the other not so much.

One built their team on strong drafting, the other... not so much.

One team deserves the credit, the other, I will admit may deserve it but I won't give them credit for it until it happens.

 

[Scurr]

Tampa is pretty interesting. Yzerman was regularly criticized on this board early in his tenure.

 

[sting101]

What have we done to prompt a better place than 29th on drafting/development?

We've recently had a 5th overall pick (2016), 6th overall pick (2014), 23rd overall pick (2015), 24th overall pick (2014) and 36th overall pick (2014).

Our 6th overall in 2014 is looking like a tremendously poor return on our pick. I have faith that Virtanen will become a useful NHL player (and maybe even a fan favourite one day), but the board was clamoring for Ehlers or Nylander and both of them look fantastic so far with star potential.

Our 24th overall in 2014 the reaction was pretty tepid on McCann. Fans wanted Barbashev badly, but neither is lighting the world on fire. I'm still generally OK with picking McCann and I'm ignoring Pastrnak because he wasn't even on my radar at the time so it would be unfair to judge him in hindsight.

Our 36th overall in 2014 was great value at our pick. No complaints with walking away from the draft with the best goalie prospect while only spending a high 2nd, and to Demko's credit he has looked fantastic since being drafted.

Our 23rd overall pick in 2015 was hit right out of the park. People were hoping for Konecny but were generally just praying Benning didn't pick pick Carlo. Boeser I'd say so far has been an absolute stud pick and there are no complaints here.

Our 5th overall pick in 2016 has not been well received so far. Although many are using the Hall for Larsson trade as a prime example of why the pick made sense, it is universally been seen as a reach from the BPA to the pick Benning wanted, like the Virtanen pick. Many wanted to go with Tkachuk and a few scattered fans would have preferred Sergachev if we insisted on going for a defenseman. Juolevi should become a staple on our blueline for the next decade, but it remains to be seen whether he'll be anchoring our first pair or second pair.

So basically Benning has had good to great success with late 1sts and early 2nds, but has absolutely went rogue on the 2 best picks we've had in the last 15 years. Only time will tell if Benning was a step ahead of the fan base on scouting Virtanen and Juolevi or a step behind.

yes sure?

widely known fact that 1.5 top9 top5 D and starting GK per year is considered good drafting.

in 3 drafts. Virtanen 2-3RW McCann 2C Demko 1GK Boeser 1-2RW Juolevi 1-2LD Tryamkin 5D Baertschi 2LW......would have to consider that excellent.....NO?

Ehlers and Nylander???? what about Fleury and Dal Colle and Ritchie.? you can say this every draft......Ehlers is gonna be an electrifying player for Wpg......its too bad....whatever..... should have drafted Karlsson or Kopitar??
Barbashev....now thats funny. McCann was a stud pick up.
lol on Tkachuk also.....without a doubt he's got some Hodgson skating issues and to boot his dad is Keith Tkachuk a widely known A hole.....probably dodged a bullet there despite the package of player he is. Lindros 2.0??? way too early to say went Rogue imo.

statistically were doing excellent at drafting. Development wise.....Markstrom Horvat Virtanen Hutton and Gaunce are progressing nicely and Travis Green is getting NHL considerations so he's obviously doing a good job.

Van fans are hilarious.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I'm confident that Benning isn't going to do anything that will hurt the team significantly going forward. Yeah, it would have been nice to have more picks. Yeah, it would have been nice to sign better players to those mid length contracts. Neither is going to kill the franchise, though, despite all the doom and gloom. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, though.

How can you be so confident? He already did just 12 days ago with that awful contract handed out to Eriksson that even Boston wasn't stupid enough to give.

 

[y2kcanucks]

yes sure?

widely known fact that 1.5 top9 top5 D and starting GK per year is considered good drafting.

in 3 drafts. Virtanen 2-3RW McCann 2C Demko 1GK Boeser 1-2RW Juolevi 1-2LD Tryamkin 5D Baertschi 2LW......would have to consider that excellent.....NO?

Ehlers and Nylander???? what about Fleury and Dal Colle and Ritchie.? you can say this every draft......Ehlers is gonna be an electrifying player for Wpg......its too bad....whatever..... should have drafted Karlsson or Kopitar??
Barbashev....now thats funny. McCann was a stud pick up.
lol on Tkachuk also.....without a doubt he's got some Hodgson skating issues and to boot his dad is Keith Tkachuk a widely known A hole.....probably dodged a bullet there despite the package of player he is. Lindros 2.0??? way too early to say went Rogue imo.

statistically were doing excellent at drafting. Development wise.....Markstrom Horvat Virtanen Hutton and Gaunce are progressing nicely and Travis Green is getting NHL considerations so he's obviously doing a good job.

Van fans are hilarious.

LOL. This is going to be funny to pull up and look back on in a couple of years.

 

[DanCloutiersFiveHole]

yes sure?

widely known fact that 1.5 top9 top5 D and starting GK per year is considered good drafting.

in 3 drafts. Virtanen 2-3RW McCann 2C Demko 1GK Boeser 1-2RW Juolevi 1-2LD Tryamkin 5D Baertschi 2LW......would have to consider that excellent.....NO?

Ehlers and Nylander???? what about Fleury and Dal Colle and Ritchie.? you can say this every draft......Ehlers is gonna be an electrifying player for Wpg......its too bad....whatever..... should have drafted Karlsson or Kopitar??
Barbashev....now thats funny. McCann was a stud pick up.
lol on Tkachuk also.....without a doubt he's got some Hodgson skating issues and to boot his dad is Keith Tkachuk a widely known A hole.....probably dodged a bullet there despite the package of player he is. Lindros 2.0??? way too early to say went Rogue imo.

statistically were doing excellent at drafting. Development wise.....Markstrom Horvat Virtanen Hutton and Gaunce are progressing nicely and Travis Green is getting NHL considerations so he's obviously doing a good job.

Van fans are hilarious.

Actually, since going rogue implies deviation from the consensus, the best time to say it was a rogue pick is when the pick is made. That's when the consensus opinion is most clearly remembered.

 

[oceanchild]

We made the Top 30?

Las Vegas has yet to name its management group! We won't make the top 30 next year.

Worst part is, what self respecting solid GM would want to walk into this hot mess once Benning is done. I am also concerned that ownership a prior meddling will allow this to continue longer then necessary due to the perceived optics of firing anouther GM and the ownership stake general involvement.

Sigh

 

[ChilliBilly]

Las Vegas has yet to name its management group! We won't make the top 30 next year.

Worst part is, what self respecting solid GM would want to walk into this hot mess once Benning is done. I am also concerned that ownership a prior meddling will allow this to continue longer then necessary due to the perceived optics of firing anouther GM and the ownership stake general involvement.

Sigh

The only positive from this is that Aquaman will find out that his meddling and incompetent hirings are going to cost him a ton of money.

Sadly, it won't matter, because he is so invested in property in the Lower Mainland that he is going to be making money.

 

[DL44]

Las Vegas has yet to name its management group! We won't make the top 30 next year.

Based on the trend of that poll, Vegas would check in into the top 10.

 

[sting101]

LOL. This is going to be funny to pull up and look back on in a couple of years.

oh OK.Which one of your thousands of chicken little posts should i set up for the gang to smack out of the park?
what team are you even cheering for these days? have you told management how they should run there jobs recently?

go right ahead. Juolevi is gonna be a stud and Tkachuk will be a lazy uber talented underachiever in terms of 200ft play....quote me on it Y2K.

 

[beachcomber]

Must be a lot of young folks on this board. The state of the Canucks now are what us seasoned fans have been used to and have come to expect since 1970. Aside from a few grabs at the brass ring, Bure and the Sedins this franchise has flatlined for 46 years. Awful coaches, drafting, GM's, owners etc, the list is endless. Cursed with the first spin of the wheel. Lol.

 

[y2kcanucks]

oh OK.Which one of your thousands of chicken little posts should i set up for the gang to smack out of the park?
what team are you even cheering for these days? have you told management how they should run there jobs recently?

go right ahead. Juolevi is gonna be a stud and Tkachuk will be a lazy uber talented underachiever in terms of 200ft play....quote me on it Y2K.

Oh I will quote you on it. Juolevi will be a good defenseman, much like Dan Hamhuis and Jyrki Lumme were good defensemen. He won't be a great defenseman though. He's not going to be an elite number 1.

Meanwhile I see Tkachuk developing into a 30-30 first line LWer.

 

[NuxFan09]

Just came across an article in the Province suggesting that the results may be due to the weather. Good weather in Tampa = Support team. Poor summer weather in Vancouver = no team support.

lol Seems legit.

Lol. Canadian teams need competent management. End of story.

 

[NuxFan09]

Oh I will quote you on it. Juolevi will be a good defenseman, much like Dan Hamhuis and Jyrki Lumme were good defensemen. He won't be a great defenseman though. He's not going to be an elite number 1.

Meanwhile I see Tkachuk developing into a 30-30 first line LWer.

A 30-30-60 first liner is a good player but nothing special, just like you said about Hamhuis, Lumme or Juolevi. To me it's the same thing. If we passed on a guy like Laine who could be a superstar and perennial 40-50 goal scorer, that would be a different story. I'm really not upset at losing out on a 30-30 guy though, not when we're really in need of top pairing D prospects.

 

[y2kcanucks]

A 30-30-60 first liner is a good player but nothing special, just like you said about Hamhuis, Lumme or Juolevi. To me it's the same thing. If we passed on a guy like Laine who could be a superstar and perennial 40-50 goal scorer, that would be a different story. I'm really not upset at losing out on a 30-30 guy though, not when we're really in need of top pairing D prospects.

Only 28 players scored 30 goals this past year. The Canucks just gave a 31 year old a 6 year deal worth $6M per year because he put up a season like that. I'd say it's quite valuable.

 

[TomWillander1RD]

200 sample size? Does it mean each team's result is based on around 5-10 responses? Even though there isn't much information on the survey methodology, the lack of sample is definitely an issue.

The author tries to be fancy by introducing some sort of weighted approach, but the difference in score would probably be not statistically significant.

Although I don't agree with the survey design, I do agree with the result. Benning's spot is well deserved, and the fact that Boston is 30th in drafting makes me to believe that maybe the survey could be well designed after all.


Not having state income tax gives advantage to 2 Florida hockey teams, and interestingly they're ranked 1 and 2. Not saying Benning will be in that position even with the same benefit.

 

[CloutierForVezina]

That sounds pretty decent to me from 2014-2016...... better than 29th for sure. Maybe we as Vancouver fans have extremely unrealistic expectations?

Here's the thing.

Let's say I tell you to go buy milk, eggs and some really expensive filet mignon.

If you happen to drop the filet mignon on the ground on the way home, nobody cares that you got the eggs home without breaking any or that you got the freshest jug of milk in the store.

Basically, the magnitude of picks are not all the same. You can do above average on every single low pick you make and still come out looking like a fool if you punt the picks that could have landed you a superstar.

yes sure?

widely known fact that 1.5 top9 top5 D and starting GK per year is considered good drafting.

in 3 drafts. Virtanen 2-3RW McCann 2C Demko 1GK Boeser 1-2RW Juolevi 1-2LD Tryamkin 5D Baertschi 2LW......would have to consider that excellent.....NO?

You can't just blanket look at the results and say "yes this is a good year" without taking into account the cost you paid to get them.

A top-6 pick should get you a top-6 F or top-4 D 100% of the time. There's no good reason to ever fail at picks this high. You should not be given credit for finding a 3rd line winger with a 6th overall pick.

On top of that, Demko is *far* from a starting goalie right now. Far, far, far away. He needs another 2 years of solid development and progress to even begin to earn that label. I'm one of his biggest fans and have really high hopes for him, but let's not get carried away here.

Ehlers and Nylander???? what about Fleury and Dal Colle and Ritchie.? you can say this every draft......Ehlers is gonna be an electrifying player for Wpg......its too bad....whatever..... should have drafted Karlsson or Kopitar??
Barbashev....now thats funny. McCann was a stud pick up.
lol on Tkachuk also.....without a doubt he's got some Hodgson skating issues and to boot his dad is Keith Tkachuk a widely known A hole.....probably dodged a bullet there despite the package of player he is. Lindros 2.0??? way too early to say went Rogue imo.

statistically were doing excellent at drafting. Development wise.....Markstrom Horvat Virtanen Hutton and Gaunce are progressing nicely and Travis Green is getting NHL considerations so he's obviously doing a good job.

Van fans are hilarious.

I'm not sure what you're even talking about here. The board was consensus high on Ehlers and Nylander and I've taken this stance since the pick was made, there is no revisionist history or hindsight drafting going on here. Almost everyone wanted to avoid Fleury and Ritchie had a few supporters, but most people thought Virtanen was a better pick than him.

MDC is also a stud, but he was off the board by #5 so I don't know why you put his name down there.

Hodgson was destroyed by injuries, not by skating issues. You're re-writing history here.

Barbashev has also done about as much as McCann since being drafted. Neither pick is amazing.

Marking down a player because you heard his dad was a jerk is one of the stupidest things I've heard on these boards.

 

[Jyrki21]

200 sample size? Does it mean each team's result is based on around 5-10 responses? Even though there isn't much information on the survey methodology, the lack of sample is definitely an issue.

As I noted above, they aren't fanbase-specific responses at all. It's just 200 people commenting on all teams. So basically you're getting an outsider perspective more than anything.

Also, I would argue you're but a Canuck in Ottawa.

 

[Archangel]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/how-much-confidence-does-each-nhl-fan-base-have-in-their-front-office-a-ranking-of-all-30-teams/

Felt this was worthy of posting/discussing.

Im going to be the first to say, I don't think a 200 person survey necessarily makes this a formal survey by any means. I will concede that point right away.

With that said, I am having a hard time disagreeing with a lot of the rankings. The teams that finished near the top all seem to be smart front offices with good direction and management. The ones near the bottom seem to be the teams who lack direction, or have a history of repeatedly making bad moves.

My guess the oiler fans were asked this question right after they gave away hall for a buck 99 and trading stamps

 

[PG Canuck]

Just came across an article in the Province suggesting that the results may be due to the weather. Good weather in Tampa = Support team. Poor summer weather in Vancouver = no team support.

lol Seems legit.

While we are at it, rank our media at 30th too.

Idiots.