Cut/Released: Raiders fire Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler

[SirClintonPortis]

Mark Davis needs to hire competent football people surrounding him. Apparently, the McDaneils hire was done through a consulting firm for f*** sakes

I would be frustrated at Mark Davis, but I think it's not because he doesn't know but rather winning is not the first priority with him. The consulting firm is probably window dressing to cover for him wanting to get rid of Carr and pay Tom Brady's assistant so none of the other owners had to suffer another disastrous McD experience.

If I can casually remember McDaniels, Cutler, Orton, Tebow, less potency than Shanahan. Mark Davis could too. Plus, Mark probably watched the division games between Denver and Oakland then.

I think Mark Davis likes to do favors for people. Mayock too...might have been given a job simply because he was a draft nut on NFL Network and well, screwing up in Oakland isn't a big deal because they've already sucked for a long time.

 

[EpochLink]

I do like what I've seen from Mayer. I'm worried about Wilson tho, he looks really bad for a top 10 pick. Byron Young has struggled too but as a 3rd rounder I expect him to take longer to adjust/develop. Tucker has shown some flashes and could benefit from this change. Bennett has potential but has been asked to do too much this early in his career. It could be a worse class I suppose.

Mayer will get there, from his limited production cause of Jimmy G's trash ass he's been able to produce in the blocking and the receiving. Wilson has issues rushing the passer OR he's been coached to be a linebacker whatever the heck. He just needs proper coaching to do his thing.

 

[StreetHawk]

I do like what I've seen from Mayer. I'm worried about Wilson tho, he looks really bad for a top 10 pick. Byron Young has struggled too but as a 3rd rounder I expect him to take longer to adjust/develop. Tucker has shown some flashes and could benefit from this change. Bennett has potential but has been asked to do too much this early in his career. It could be a worse class I suppose.

Wilson, I will hold judgement until next season. Hard to play well when you miss camp going from college to pro. But, I will compare his progress to Gonzalez the CB. That's the guy I would have taken. I get not taking Carter. If he gets in trouble in Athens, GA, I have a bad feellng about him with money in LV, NV.

2 draft classes from this NE west regime:
OG - Parham, looks ok. No pro bowl, but for a 3rd rounder, if he's a solid starter, all I am looking for.
RB - White, see what he has for the rest of this season and the next 2. Jacobs is gone. No new regime will pay $12 mill for a RB who declined this past season. Cheap option.
The rest, the 2 DT, nothing to show for.
OT - Munford in round 7, if he's your swing OT, that's a hit in round 7.

DE - Wilson, see above.
TE - Mayer, I like what he brings. Should be better utilized
DT - Young, have not noticed him
WR - Tucker, smaller speed guy. Haven't seen much of him since Jimmy can't throw deep
CB - Bennett, so far, good value for a 4th. Asked to play more than what he should. Had they gotten Gonzalez, he'd be down to dime packages.
S - Smith, no playing time yet
AOC - think he's likely a backup. But, should get run to finish the season
The LB and DT, hard to assess.

Key is Wilson. He has to be a good DE to go opposite Crosby. Need that.

 

[EpochLink]

I think Mark Davis like to do favors for people. Mayock too...might have been given a job simply because he was a draft nut on NFL Network and well, screwing up in Oakland isn't a big deal because they've already sucked for a long time.

Mayock and Gruden had drafts where the picks were suspect at the time. Clelin Ferrell was garbage for a pick that high, Jonathan Abhram was trash, Henry Ruggs had promise until he messed up. Maxx Crosby, Josh Jacobs, Hunter Renfrow were the only good ones.

Matter of fact, Gruden's first draft back with the Raiders they got Kolton Miller, whom has been a stellar left tackle.

 

[StreetHawk]

Ziegler and McDaniels, boy did they suck. I mean, you come in and first major move is to trade a first and second for Adams who was 29, not 25 like AJ Brown. So that means you have assessed this roster you were inherited that made the PO at 10-7 the prior season in 2021 and felt you needed a WR in his prime to go to the next level. Then you finish at 7-10. And dump your starting QB. Which I’m not heartbroken about but at least if they didn’t give him that signing bonus an NTC they could have at worst tagged him and dealt him for something last off season.
Then they proceed to go 3-5 this season with no offence at all this season. And with embarrassing losses to Jeff Saturday, Baker Mayfield who got the playbook of the Rams the day before, and the Bears with a rookie Undrafted Div 2 QB.

One thing to be wrong with draft picks as you are assessing college to nfl and making a projection. But they needed to be right in their assessment of the raiders roster. Sold that they can be good now and under delivered. Deserved to be fired.

Honestly with Davis, LV is a destination city. Stadium will be full as fans from other clubs will attend games and make a weekend out of it. That’s why you will still see sea of Red when SF comes and Yellow towels when Pitt comes. Even KC red last year too.

Who is he going to turn to make this next hire?

 

[EpochLink]

Ziegler and McDaniels, boy did they suck. I mean, you come in and first major move is to trade a first and second for Adams who was 29, not 25 like AJ Brown. So that means you have assessed this roster you were inherited that made the PO at 10-7 the prior season in 2021 and felt you needed a WR in his prime to go to the next level. Then you finish at 7-10. And dump your starting QB. Which I’m not heartbroken about but at least if they didn’t give him that signing bonus an NTC they could have at worst tagged him and dealt him for something last off season.
Then they proceed to go 3-5 this season with no offence at all this season. And with embarrassing losses to Jeff Saturday, Baker Mayfield who got the playbook of the Rams the day before, and the Bears with a rookie Undrafted Div 2 QB.

One thing to be wrong with draft picks as you are assessing college to nfl and making a projection. But they needed to be right in their assessment of the raiders roster. Sold that they can be good now and under delivered. Deserved to be fired.

Honestly with Davis, LV is a destination city. Stadium will be full as fans from other clubs will attend games and make a weekend out of it. That’s why you will still see sea of Red when SF comes and Yellow towels when Pitt comes. Even KC red last year too.

Who is he going to turn to make this next hire?

He needs to hire straight up football people surrounding him, get a group of quality ex-Raider players plus some other player acumen on the next search. We shall see with Champ Kelly and Antonio Pierce, but making Aiden O'Connell the number 1 going forward was the best move.

I hope this once and for all ends the stupid nepotism bullcrap of hiring Patriot assistant coaches, all dog trash left in the streets. As much success that has come out of New England in the 20 year dominance, it's probably one of the worst coaching trees in NFL history.

 

[StreetHawk]

He needs to hire straight up football people surrounding him, get a group of quality ex-Raider players plus some other player acumen on the next search. We shall see with Champ Kelly and Antonio Pierce, but making Aiden O'Connell the number 1 going forward was the best move.

I hope this once and for all ends the stupid nepotism bullcrap of hiring Patriot assistant coaches, all dog trash left in the streets. As much success that has come out of New England in the 20 year dominance, it's probably one of the worst coaching trees in NFL history.

BB’s tree is the one to avoid. Weiss, Crommel, McDaniels, Judge, Patricia, O’Brien. Flores turned Miami competitive but was fired before we got to see him. Vrabel was never a NE coach just a former player.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

BB’s tree is the one to avoid. Weiss, Crommel, McDaniels, Judge, Patricia, O’Brien. Flores turned Miami competitive but was fired before we got to see him. Vrabel was never a NE coach just a former player.

Flores would have destroyed Tua's career.

 

[StreetHawk]

Some of these McDaniels apologists are laughable. Give him time to change the culture to the patriot way. Without Brady there would never have been a patriot way….. it’s mostly on Brady.

you don’t make a trade for a 29 year old WR if you need time to turn the team around. That screams we are close to winning.

And you can’t have on your resume a loss at home to a HC who has no college or pro experience in his first game. Lose on the final drive when you fail to convert on 3rd and short to ice the game then watch baker who just got off the plane and had the playbook for a day win the game. Or lose to a division 2 undrafted rookie QB in his first start when you opt to go with a mid 30 something year old veteran QB and not your own rookie QB. Plus 4 blown double digit leads last season. All that in 25 games as a HC.

He’s an OC whose team in half the season has not scored more than 21 points in a game. A garbage time TD late vs Chicago and had a pick 6 to make the score look close on MNF. Saleh in year 2 with the jets had their D in the top 10 or even top 5 despite having Wilson at QB. Have to get your side of the ball corrected by year 2. Mike McDaniel has the dolphins O humming this season and he came from the SF tree. Also in year 2.

 

[EpochLink]

Flores would have destroyed Tua's career.

Flores was all about him and not helping Tua, Mike McDaniel approach was to bring out the best in Tua by surrounding him with weapons and a system to his needs

Flores is another New England flop, now he’s back doing DC work. Mike Vrabel avoided coaching under New England, he’s done a decent job with the Titans.

 

[StreetHawk]

Flores was all about him and not helping Tua, Mike McDaniel approach was to bring out the best in Tua by surrounding him with weapons and a system to his needs

Flores is another New England flop, now he’s back doing DC work. Mike Vrabel avoided coaching under New England, he’s done a decent job with the Titans.

Flores also a defensive coach. More on who his OC and QB coach to help Tua. Who were the OC and QB coaches for Flores? Don’t see much do McDermott helping Allen. Or any of the Defensive minded HC bringing out the best in their QB.

 

[EpochLink]

Some of these McDaniels apologists are laughable. Give him time to change the culture to the patriot way. Without Brady there would never have been a patriot way….. it’s mostly on Brady.

I have been preaching this, the day Tom Brady left New England was the day the ‘Patriot Way’ ended as he was the way.

Coaching:
Romeo Crenel - trash
Charlie Weis - trash
Eric Mangini - trash
Brian Flores - trash
Josh McDaniels - trash
Bill O’Brien - decent
Matt Patricia - dumpster juice
Joe Judge - dumpster juice

Front office:
Dave Zeigler - mid
Scott Pioli - decent
Thomas Dimitroff - good

Turns out the Patriots front office was at least better than the coaching aspect.

 

[Hasbro]

Time to update

The Belichick Coaching Tree:

Al Groh 1 Season 9-7 No playoffs
Romeo Crennel 3 teams 7 Seasons 32-63 .337 No Playoffs
Nick Saban 2 Seasons 15-17 .469 No Playoffs
Eric Mangini 2 Teams 5 Seasons 33-47 .413 1 playoff 0-1
Josh McDaniels 2 Teams* 4 Seasons 20-33 No Playoffs
Jim Schwartz 5 Seasons 29-51 .363 1 playoff 0-1
Bill O'Brien 7 Seasons 52-48 .520 4 Playoffs 2-4
Matt Patricia 3 Seasons 13-29-1 .314 No Playoffs
Brian Flores 3 Seasons 24-25 .490 No Playoffs
Joe Judge 2 Seasons 10-23 .235 No Playoffs
Brian Daboll 1 1/2 Seasons 11-13-1 1 Playoff 1-1


Cumulative:
33.5 Seasons 248-356-2 .411
7 out of 31 Full Seasons making the Playoffs 3-7 .300
4 Division titles all by O'Brien

I have been preaching this, the day Tom Brady left New England was the day the ‘Patriot Way’ ended as he was the way.

Coaching:
Romeo Crenel - trash
Charlie Weis - trash
Eric Mangini - trash
Brian Flores - trash
Josh McDaniels - trash
Bill O’Brien - decent
Matt Patricia - dumpster juice
Joe Judge - dumpster juice

Front office:
Dave Zeigler - mid
Scott Pioli - decent
Thomas Dimitroff - good

Turns out the Patriots front office was at least better than the coaching aspect.

There's also the back up QBs they traded out.

 

[StreetHawk]

I have been preaching this, the day Tom Brady left New England was the day the ‘Patriot Way’ ended as he was the way.

Coaching:
Romeo Crenel - trash
Charlie Weis - trash
Eric Mangini - trash
Brian Flores - trash
Josh McDaniels - trash
Bill O’Brien - decent
Matt Patricia - dumpster juice
Joe Judge - dumpster juice

Front office:
Dave Zeigler - mid
Scott Pioli - decent
Thomas Dimitroff - good

Turns out the Patriots front office was at least better than the coaching aspect.

Look at BB now without Brady. Passable on year 1 with Cam as they had to eat Brady dead cap. Then Jones is solid as a rookie but got blown out by Buffalo in the PO and have been terrible since. Being that miserable BB Patriot way isn’t going to last without the winning. Players are not going to buy into that.

 

[LT]

I have been preaching this, the day Tom Brady left New England was the day the ‘Patriot Way’ ended as he was the way.

Coaching:
Romeo Crenel - trash
Charlie Weis - trash
Eric Mangini - trash
Brian Flores - trash
Josh McDaniels - trash
Bill O’Brien - decent
Matt Patricia - dumpster juice
Joe Judge - dumpster juice

Front office:
Dave Zeigler - mid
Scott Pioli - decent
Thomas Dimitroff - good

Turns out the Patriots front office was at least better than the coaching aspect.

O'Brien was garbage too.

He inherited a very talented Texans franchise, got gifted an MVP level QB, and did f*** all with it. Ended up running it all into the ground on his way out.

 

[Tecumseh]

Wow what an extremely smart take here:

Terrible take actually. Your timeline was way off.

 

[GKJ]

Terrible take actually. Your timeline was way off.

Well unless they make Pierce permanent, they'll still be doing it

 

[GKJ]

 

[John Price]

you're not supposed to have fun at work.

Adams: Raiders needed 'some sort of change'

It was a different vibe at the Las Vegas Raiders facility Thursday, when the team held its first practice under interim coach Antonio Pierce.

www.espn.com

It was a different vibe at the Las Vegas Raiders facility Thursday, when the team held its first practice under interim coach Antonio Pierce.

From warming up to the musical stylings of seminal rap group N.W.A.'s "Straight Outta Compton" to All-Pro receiver Davante Adams taking running back Ameer Abdullah to school in the locker room's new mini-basketball hoop to offensive linemen wrestling each other WWE style to even, yes, a new starting quarterback in rookie Aidan O'Connell, it was a new day.

All less than 48 hours after the Raiders fired Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler as coach and general manager, respectively, and replaced them with Pierce and Champ Kelly.

"Don't get it confused," Adams cautioned. "It's not a celebration that we have a new coach and there's been changes made. We, obviously, think it was time, one way or the other, it was time for some sort of change. Just to bring a little juice in and revitalize the team a little bit. So, I think that's kind of the mindset we're having, just trying to have fun and enjoy our time in this building because I think as we speak to each other, it's been too much of, this has just been feeling like work too much and not having enough fun."

 

[StreetHawk]

Patriot way only works if you win.
Not dealing with that grumpy BS unless you are winning.

Look at the embarrassing losses on McDaniels resume. Saturday, Baker, Bagent, blown 2 score leads. Under 21 points a game all season. For an offensive coach?

Players saying that the bad news bears knew their play calls? The bears…. Think that happened to Brady?

 

[EpochLink]

Patriot way only works if you win.
Not dealing with that grumpy BS unless you are winning.

Look at the embarrassing losses on McDaniels resume. Saturday, Baker, Bagent, blown 2 score leads. Under 21 points a game all season. For an offensive coach?

Players saying that the bad news bears knew their play calls? The bears…. Think that happened to Brady?

The Patriot Way only works if Tom Brady is quarterbacking your team, all those f***ing coordinators got all the f***ing credit when they shouldn’t cause Tom worked his magic. Remember when Matt Patricia was a hot commodity head coaching candidate? Cause he had a pencil on his ear? Guy was clearly in over his head and was dog shit as a head coach.

Brian Flores had the same approach but he just came off angry all the time. Miami had a new young QB to mold and he couldn’t give a f*** about him, his logic was ‘I had Tom Brady mother f***er, be like him’.

Joe Judge was probably taking a shit when he got hired as the Giants head coach, special teams cosch? This isn’t John Harbaugh, Judge again used his Patriot Way ass licking and he was just terrible.

This Patriot Way ended when Brady left, whoever is on the Patriots coaching staff and wants to be a head coach down the road, go to another team and learn a new system cause no way another team hired a Patriots coach. We’ve known this for years and teams still flock to New England for coaches, enough.

 

[StreetHawk]

Brady and BB used to have weekly meetings about the next opponent and BB would tell Brady how he would defend Brady given the personnel of the opposing team.

Brady used that insight to basically gameplan for the opponent. But, from those video clips, realize now that McDaniels or any other OC was not present in those meetings. Like, that seems like something that the OC should be involved in as well.

So as time has passed, we are seeing how much Brady did for the Offence.

Plus, the culture since he bought in and took the BB hard coaching and criticism cause he wanted to win.
Also goes back to him battling in practice and having to excel there to move up the Michigan depth chart as he was sandwiched between Griese and Henson. He’d bust his butt in practice and carried that to the nfl so the NE teammates had to follow suite.

So I agree, avoid all NE coaches.

Mark davis was an idiot for buying into them.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Attempts to skin the Patriots don't work because you need a perfect combo of situations:

- A Hall of Fame coach with great defensive inklings,
- A Hall of Fame QB with great time management abilities and an undeniable, though damn annoying, clutch factor,
- A consistently elite defense,
- An overall well-run organization where everybody knows their place and handles their own narrow areas of responsibility,
- An owner that stays out of the way, and
- A division where the other three teams more or less voluntarily take two decades off, with a brief Jets exception.

Anyone trying to copy that model by hiring a Pats coordinator should be fired on the spot.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Attempts to skin the Patriots don't work because you need a perfect combo of situations:

- A Hall of Fame coach with great defensive inklings,
- A Hall of Fame QB with great time management abilities and an undeniable, though damn annoying, clutch factor,
- A consistently elite defense,
- An overall well-run organization where everybody knows their place and handles their own narrow areas of responsibility,
- An owner that stays out of the way, and
- A division where the other three teams more or less voluntarily take two decades off, with a brief Jets exception.

Anyone trying to copy that model by hiring a Pats coordinator should be fired on the spot.

Coach has an economics degree. Someone who doesn't have the degree doesn't get the decision-making made by someone who does.

When Belichick deems someone expendable, it's because there are contract/price/"football mortality" coniderations at play. The disciples misundertand this high-functioning thought process treats "everyone is equally expendable".

Or in the case of Josh McDaniels, he dooesn't follow it at all and makes trades for players with a short window to perform and at a premium.

 

[Hasbro]

This really should end his NFL career.

You aren't hearing the rhetoric about what a great coach he'd make the second time around like when he got canned from the Broncos and a recognition that his cronyism was beyond the pale this time.

Suspect it also has something to do with Massholes quieting down with the Pats recent struggles.