Question. What's Next For Nhlpa?

[Wetcoaster]

Ooh, that's interesting. Since the season is cancelled, there's no reason to continue the lockout. Lifting it allows all the regular business to take place, drafting, signing prospects, etc.

Any legal opinions on that?

Players strike.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Leverage? How about these presssure points? The players have already lost this season's salaries so there is little pressure on them to get a deal done now. The owners on the other hand:

April 15, 2005 - ESPN's broadcast option for a further two years is due

June 25-26, 2005 - Entry draft

July 1, 2004 - NHL free agency

July/August 2005 - players signing contracts to play in Europe. Those without NHL contracts (all but 258 players) will be bound for the full season to the clubs in Europe.

September 15, 2005 - NHL camps open.

At this point all the pressure is on the NHL not the players who will not draw a check until next October.

You do realize that the NHLPA also loses out when there is no big network televising their sport. You do realize that the NHLPA also loses out when they miss out on the free agency period.
Of course they can be signed during the course of a season, or go to Europe, but there are quite a few big names out there without contracts who haven't played competitive hockey in quite some time. Oh and I'm sure many players just can't wait to spend another year in Europe.
And I thought this was about the future guys coming into the league? Why are they willing to accept caps on the salaries of upcoming players then? Do you honestly believe what you wrote about the players being under no pressure at all? Do you honestly believe that the pie is going to get bigger for the NHLPA when sponsors and networks drop the NHL? For such an educated person, you sure aren't balancing out your thoughts with any objectivity.

 

[Wetcoaster]

You do realize that the NHLPA also loses out when there is no big network televising their sport. You do realize that the NHLPA also loses out when they miss out on the free agency period.
Of course they can be signed during the course of a season, or go to Europe, but there are quite a few big names out there without contracts who haven't played competitive hockey in quite some time. Oh and I'm sure many players just can't wait to spend another year in Europe.
And I thought this was about the future guys coming into the league? Why are they willing to accept caps on the salaries of upcoming players then? Do you honestly believe what you wrote about the players being under no pressure at all? Do you honestly believe that the pie is going to get bigger for the NHLPA when sponsors and networks drop the NHL? For such an educated person, you sure aren't balancing out your thoughts with any objectivity.

The question asked what leverage there was on the owners.

The greatest leverage the owners had on the players disappeared with the season being cancelled.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The question asked what leverage there was on the owners.

The greatest leverage the owners had on the players disappeared with the season being cancelled.

You stated that there is no pressure on the players, which is a completely inane statement to make. This isn't about who has the stronger hand, and I don't see how the PA would think there is no pressure to get a deal done. That negotiating tactic didn't work over the past 5+ months and it won't once again if Goodenow expects to play the waiting game. He can't sit there and say no until he gets the best offer just as he did when he represented his clients. Well actually... I guess he can do that...

 

[Wetcoaster]

You stated that there is no pressure on the players, which is a completely inane statement to make. This isn't about who has the stronger hand, and I don't see how the PA would think there is no pressure to get a deal done. That negotiating tactic didn't work over the past 5+ months and it won't once again if Goodenow expects to play the waiting game. He can't sit there and say no until he gets the best offer just as he did when he represented his clients. Well actually... I guess he can do that...

You obviously have not been paying attention to these negotiations - it has been all about who perceives themselves to have the stronger hand. I do not see a massive shift in strategy coming anytime soon. YMMV.

 

[dakota]

You can be certain the TV networks will not be broadcasting the SHL at the same price they broadcast the NHL. It is not the same product.

If replacement players come in you may be cheering for the "Canucks" or facsimiles thereof but they will not be playing in BC.

I would hope sportsnet picks up the games and hockey night in canada... i am sure they will... I live in Ottawa so I cant goto home games anyway but I can watch them on TV..

I wonder if the NHL will give away NHL Centre Ice for FREE to us Fans for next season... that would be a good marketing strategy dont you think?

 

[dakota]

Simple solution:

Step 1) End the lockout

Step 2) NHLPA strikes

Step 3) No draft

so are you saying if the the leagues gets impasse awarded they get their new CBA, the players strike, that the league cannot hold a draft? I thought they could hold their draft?

I mean it would be the players striking, not a lockout then right? That means all the young guys coming up could be drafted legally by teams and play in the NHL - they would not be considered scabs would they?

 

[Mess]

Simple solution:

Step 1) End the lockout

Step 2) NHLPA strikes

Step 3) No draft

I have never heard of a lockout and a Strike at the Same time .. So this would be a poor strategy move by the NHL to lift the lockout..

As you point out the NHLPA would go on strike immediately ..

Now Goodenow ... He would send players with big contracts across the line come Oct when the season starts and even if there is no Hockey the NHL would be obligated to pay Yashin and Jagr and Holik their money NO ??

Jagr might even return to work in the NHL and if no replacements are in place and no play is present perhaps even go to Europe to play and collect a Salary from both .. NO ??

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You obviously have not been paying attention to these negotiations - it has been all about who perceives themselves to have the stronger hand. I do not see a massive shift in strategy coming anytime soon. YMMV.

Oh I've been paying attention and anticipating this to happen since 1999. I'm well aware of Goodenow's tactics. I just find it humorous after all these months of "negotiating" that the PA finally concedes to a cap, yet there is still some believe by a small minority that they can get a better deal than what was being offered months ago. You may have had your shades on when the PA conceded to what they perceived to be a major philosophical difference, i.e. the salary cap, something they'd sacrifice their contracts before accepting to one. But hey, Goodenow claims to have something up his sleeve now, so we'll see how he's playing his "cards" so to speak. If there is no massive shift in strategy from either side than I guess we should forego plans on a 2005-2006 season.

 

[Mess]

I wonder if the NHL will give away NHL Centre Ice for FREE to us Fans for next season... that would be a good marketing strategy dont you think?

Great Strategy ..

It might be the first time Bettman had some proof about Revenue's going down .. by giving it away for Free ..

I wonder if that would hold up in court and hold up as the reason he is asking for a lower Cap Number and Linkage .. :lol ..

I would love to see the judges face when the NHL explains they are giving Revenue away for Free and insisting on making the players and NHLPA partners in that decision ..

 

[Wetcoaster]

so are you saying if the the leagues gets impasse awarded they get their new CBA, the players strike, that the league cannot hold a draft? I thought they could hold their draft?

I mean it would be the players striking, not a lockout then right? That means all the young guys coming up could be drafted legally by teams and play in the NHL - they would not be considered scabs would they?

????????????

I was not speaking to the impasse issue.

It was proposed that the NHL simply lift the lockout when the season is done and hold a draft.

My response was that the players then could simply strike and there is no draft.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I have never heard of a lockout and a Strike at the Same time .. So this would be a poor strategy move by the NHL to lift the lockout..

As you point out the NHLPA would go on strike immediately ..

Now Goodenow ... He would send players with big contracts across the line come Oct when the season starts and even if there is no Hockey the NHL would be obligated to pay Yashin and Jagr and Holik their money NO ??

Jagr might even return to work in the NHL and if no replacements are in place and no play is present perhaps even go to Europe to play and collect a Salary from both .. NO ??

I assume the strategy being touted would be to lift the lockout, hold a draft and then re-impose the lockout.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I would hope sportsnet picks up the games and hockey night in canada... i am sure they will... I live in Ottawa so I cant goto home games anyway but I can watch them on TV..

I wonder if the NHL will give away NHL Centre Ice for FREE to us Fans for next season... that would be a good marketing strategy dont you think?

If it is a replacement league, you might have problems broadcasting the games in Canada since the broadcast technical crews are union members. If the players strike who would handle the cameras and all the technical equipment?

 

[Mess]

I assume the strategy being touted would be to lift the lockout, hold a draft and then re-impose the lockout.

Yes I understood you position and your response ..

Does a Strike Position not favour the NHLPA though as opposed to a Lockout as now they have options or at least control.?? ..

Can an Impase be declared regardless of Lockout or Strike position ??

 

[Mess]

If it is a replacement league, you might have problems broadcasting the games in Canada since the broadcast technical crews are union members. If the players strike who would handle the cameras and all the technical equipment?

You touched on another issue ..

Are not arena maintenace workers, parking attendants, Concession stand works all parts of unions as well .. Usually when one Union is in a Strike Position other unions as you are suggesting here , honour a Picket line ..??

 

[djhn579]

You touched on another issue ..

Are not arena maintenace workers, parking attendants, Concession stand works all parts of unions as well .. Usually when one Union is in a Strike Position other unions as you are suggesting here , honour a Picket line ..??

Wouldn't that depend upon whether or not the other unions have a clause similar to what is in the NHL cba, that the players can't refuse to work to support another union?

 

[dakota]

????????????

I was not speaking to the impasse issue.

It was proposed that the NHL simply lift the lockout when the season is done and hold a draft.

My response was that the players then could simply strike and there is no draft.

my question was if the players go on strike why can there not be a draft? I thought there could be?

 

[dakota]

You touched on another issue ..

Are not arena maintenace workers, parking attendants, Concession stand works all parts of unions as well .. Usually when one Union is in a Strike Position other unions as you are suggesting here , honour a Picket line ..??

well the NHLPA is not a union... more than half the members are taking other union members jobs in Europe, UHL, ECHL etc., that is not what a union does. They stick it out and sacrifice. Didnt the PA also play when the NHL refs were one strike... that wasnt really sticking up for their union.

I do not think they will get as much "sympathy" from other unions as you suggest...

 

[Mess]

Wouldn't that depend upon whether or not the other unions have a clause similar to what is in the NHL cba, that the players can't refuse to work to support another union?

What about Ref's do they not have a union as well ??

What food and alcohol delivery, of other companies ?? Would they cross and Union Picket line to make Deliveries . etc

 

[dakota]

If it is a replacement league, you might have problems broadcasting the games in Canada since the broadcast technical crews are union members. If the players strike who would handle the cameras and all the technical equipment?

I am sure there are plenty of people out there. Would you risk your $70,000 job for a cause that has nothing to do with you? I know the players (NHLPA) did not when the refs union went on strike...

 

[Mess]

well the NHLPA is not a union... more than half the members are taking other union members jobs in Europe, UHL, ECHL etc., that is not what a union does. They stick it out and sacrifice. Didnt the PA also play when the NHL refs were one strike... that wasnt really sticking up for their union.

I do not think they will get as much "sympathy" from other unions as you suggest...

The Union is not currently on Strike .. They are locked out ...

If its was the other way around and we would be in a strike situation then you might be correct however I am not sure the Euro leagues and union issues apply ..

 

[dakota]

You touched on another issue ..

Are not arena maintenace workers, parking attendants, Concession stand works all parts of unions as well .. Usually when one Union is in a Strike Position other unions as you are suggesting here , honour a Picket line ..??

all the people not working presently... your telling me they would support the players in this... get in touch with reality... the minute the NHLPA went overseas and took other jobs away from Europeans and UHL, ECHL they showed their true colours. They put themselves first... and soon it will come back to haunt them... karma is an interesting thing.

 

[dakota]

The Union is not currently on Strike .. They are locked out ...

If its was the other way around and we would be in a strike situation then you might be correct however I am not sure the Euro leagues and union issues apply ..

you should follow the threads...

 

[Mess]

all the people not working presently... your telling me they would support the players in this... get in touch with reality... the minute the NHLPA went overseas and took other jobs away from Europeans and UHL, ECHL they showed their true colours. They put themselves first... and soon it will come back to haunt them... karma is an interesting thing.

The players have no say in this really .. Its a owners lockout , in order to avoid paying guaranteed contracts .. The players have no control on this situation other then they have not accepted any offer the NHL has proposed ..

The Players want to play the owners are not allowing it by locking the Doors .. The people effected by it are being effected directly by the Owners actions and indirectly by the Players by not agreeing to an offer they thought fair ..

 

[dakota]

The players have no say in this really .. Its a owners lockout , in order to avoid paying guaranteed contracts .. The players have no control on this situation other then they have not accepted any offer the NHL has proposed ..

sure they do... they act like a union and dont take other peoples jobs... they sacrifice for their cause... they have control over their actions...