Quebec City getting a franchise ?

[Hasbro]

fan support is basically irrelevant in today's sports market......

owners want customers with corporate dough, not fans.....

look at toronto, corporate support has dominated that market and its doing well financially but the on-ice product is a different story...

Does your heart pump lemon juice?

 

[SOLR]

As I write this I am watching an ESPN Classic replay of a Habs/Nords playoff game. Goalies are Roy and Hetall. Great game and fantastic atmosphere in the Colisee.

You mean that dreaded lost.

This was the nicest serie I have seen in my whole life. So much drama.

Witch game is it?

 

[puckhead103*]

Does your heart pump lemon juice?

please explain your sarcastic remark.....

 

[Hasbro]

Bitter and sour

 

[Fourier]

You mean that dreaded lost.

This was the nicest serie I have seen in my whole life. So much drama.

Witch game is it?

Game 5.

 

[SOLR]

Game 5.

 

[helicecopter]

I'm getting pretty sick of your ridiculous posts... "nobody cares" = sold out 34 games in a row in Anaheim?

It's not the first time i read this thing, so i have a genuine question:
how is that in all playoff games i watched there were a lot of empty seat in Anaheim? (Conference finals as well, for example. That was depressing to see)
Were they awarding free tickets to people not caring?
are people in Anaheim so relaxed and rich to spend money to buy tickets and then choosing to do something else depending on the weather?

 

[PeteWorrell]

It's not the first time i read this thing, so i have a genuine question:
how is that in all playoff games i watched there were a lot of empty seat in Anaheim? (Conference finals as well, for example. That was depressing to see)
Were they awarding free tickets to people not caring?
are people in Anaheim so relaxed and rich to spend money to buy tickets and then choosing to do something else depending on the weather?

For the same reason you saw lots of empty seats this year in Detroit even if it said sold out.They were sold to the suits and decided not to go.They count the sells at the gate not the actual number of people seated in the arena.

 

[helicecopter]

For the same reason you saw lots of empty seats this year in Detroit even if it said sold out.

mmmh.. as far as i know Detroit didn't sell out a single playoff game because of tickets' overgrowth.

They were sold to the suits and decided not to go.

Well, when it happens so regularly that's not either a very good sign as for the citizens' passion for the game..

 

[PeteWorrell]

mmmh.. as far as i know Detroit didn't sell out a single playoff game because of tickets' overgrowth.

Well, when it happens so regularly that's not either a very good sign as for the citizens' passion for the game..

I failed to mention in my post that i was talking about Detroit during the season.

 

[Fugu]

Originally Posted by puckhead103 View Post
fan support is basically irrelevant in today's sports market......

owners want customers with corporate dough, not fans.....

look at toronto, corporate support has dominated that market and its doing well financially but the on-ice product is a different story...

Bitter and sour

If there is no fan support/interest, then why would corporations buy suites and tickets? These are used as a reward or incentive for clients, customers or even employees. Lack of general public interest lessens the value of the ticket. It is no longer viewed as a big event, or as something hard to come by. A huge public demand for a product not only increases the price, but the perception of the place that product holds overall. Great fan and corporate support assures television execs that people want to see - and be seen - at certain events. Therefore more eyeballs are likely to tune in. More eyeballs = higher ad rates = more money for the network. For the advertiser, the response they get to their advertised product fuels their ability to pay for the ads and marketing programs.

It's all connected, but it starts with general support at the grassroots level.

 

[SOLR]

If there is no fan support/interest, then why would corporations buy suites and tickets? These are used as a reward or incentive for clients, customers or even employees. Lack of general public interest lessens the value of the ticket. It is no longer viewed as a big event, or as something hard to come by. A huge public demand for a product not only increases the price, but the perception of the place that product holds overall. Great fan and corporate support assures television execs that people want to see - and be seen - at certain events. Therefore more eyeballs are likely to tune in. More eyeballs = higher ad rates = more money for the network. For the advertiser, the response they get to their advertised product fuels their ability to pay for the ads and marketing programs.

It's all connected, but it starts with general support at the grassroots level.

People brings people, the oldest marketing rule.

 

[Wetcoaster]

People brings people, the oldest marketing rule.

60% corporate seasons ticket base - NHL marketing rule.

 

[Fugu]

60% corporate seasons ticket base - NHL marketing rule.

You are ignoring why that formula works in some markets. If a company has tickets in which there is no interest, pray tell WHY they would spend the thousands of dollars to own them?


You're also mixing things up here. The fact that certain markets have enough of an interest/support to sell 60% of their ST's to corporations contributes to the revenue gap-- so use Buffalo or Nashville as examples and compare that to Detroit or Toronto. They can charge a higher average price because the buyers are corporations. That only happens after the companies realize the tickets are a hot commodity.

If anything, this is a market maturity issue, or even a differentiation. To compete in today's NHL with the current stakeholders, you have to have both. Nevertheless the corporate support thins out if the general interest disappears.

 

[SOLR]

60% corporate seasons ticket base - NHL marketing rule.

Thats the rules for non-hockey markets where the average citizen doesnt like hockey enough to pay for it. Most canadians markets doesnt need to apply this rule.(Even if they do!)

 

[Wetcoaster]

You are ignoring why that formula works in some markets. If a company has tickets in which there is no interest, pray tell WHY they would spend the thousands of dollars to own them?


You're also mixing things up here. The fact that certain markets have enough of an interest/support to sell 60% of their ST's to corporations contributes to the revenue gap-- so use Buffalo or Nashville as examples and compare that to Detroit or Toronto. They can charge a higher average price because the buyers are corporations. That only happens after the companies realize the tickets are a hot commodity.

If anything, this is a market maturity issue, or even a differentiation. To compete in today's NHL with the current stakeholders, you have to have both. Nevertheless the corporate support thins out if the general interest disappears.

The NHL target for corporate tickets is 60%. Some reach it, some exceed it and others are nowhere close. It is the latter that cause problems.

Without that level of corporate involvement snapping up premium priced tickets, even selling out the arena to Joe and Jane Sixpack makes it difficult to compete at the upper end of the salary cap. Tom Golisano made that clear in his May 2007 press conference.

In Buffalo they sell out the HSBC arena (with a waiting list of 6,000 reportedly) but they are in difficulties because of the small corporate ticket base. In Nashville they have dropped a small corporate ticket base by over 50% (4000-1800) over the years and are not selling out so they are in even worse shape.

The Buffalo and Nashville situations should be a warning signal to similar small markets with limited corporate market such as Winnipeg and and Quebec City.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Thats the rules for non-hockey markets where the average citizen doesnt like hockey enough to pay for it. Most canadians markets doesnt need to apply this rule.(Even if they do!)

They most certainly do because it is the corporate ticket holder who buys the premium priced tickets and particulalrly on the CAnadian market. Take a look at Buffalo - sellouts with a long waiting list for season tickets but less than 30% corporate tickets. As a result the average piice of ticket in Buffalo is low resulting in a financial picture that is problematical.

Joe and Jane Sixpack do not pay the freight in today's NHL.

Here are some comparative ticket prices for the Canadian teams and Buffalo and Nashville. The NHL shoots for 60% corporate season ticket holders because that is where the money is to be made. Here is what these sort of premium tickets will cost as of 2006-07 by Canadian team:

TEAM..................Prem. Avg. Ticket

TORONTO............$154.59
VANCOUVER.........$120.00
EDMONTON..........$118.33
CALGARY.............$102.56
MONTREAL...........$99.74
OTTAWA..............$89.78

The teams in serious trouble currently are the Sabres (lack of a strong corporate ticket base at less than 30% and low ticket prices in spite of selling out 50 games in a row) and Nashville (lack of a strong corporate ticket base also less than 35% and poor over-all attendance). Here are their premium seats:

BUFFALO…..$65.05 (average ticket price with 1,3% increase last season $30.07)
NASHVILLE…$86.47 (average ticket price with 10% ticket price increase last season $40.78)

Figures from:
http://www.teammarketing.com/fci.cfm?page=fci_nhl_06-07.cfm

And on the Buffalo situation:

The Sabres raked in the bucks this season. They’ve sold out HSBC Arena 50 straight times. They reached the Eastern Conference finals a second year in a row. They’ll get another cut of league revenue sharing. Their merchandise has been hotter than Arizona asphalt.

Despite high yields and their owner’s estimated net worth of $1.7 billion, the Sabres remain a small-market franchise. They already have decided they can’t afford to spend up to the NHL’s salary cap, expected to go up from $44 million to about $48 million and possibly higher.

The Sabres still are figuring out their hockey budget for 2007-08, but an unwillingness to push the payroll limit likely will make it difficult to resign co-captains Daniel Briere and Chris Drury while keeping top goal scorer Thomas Vanek happy.

“Would it be considered a success,” Sabres owner B. Thomas Golisano asked, “when you have a team that sells out every game and sells out all the suites but would lose money unless they were in the playoffs? That’s a thing an organization like the Buffalo Sabres must be aware of.

“If they move the salary cap up and we go with it, there’s a good possibility we would lose money unless we reached the second round of the playoffs. That’s an unhealthy situation.”
............
“The league has got to be careful,” Golisano said. “I’m very interested to see the individual team finances across the league. Before the lockout, 19 teams lost money. After the first year of the agreement — I won’t say exactly how many — a significant number lost money. If that cap continues to rise, the number of teams that lose money may increase.”

The Sabres didn’t want to spend up to the $44 million salary cap this season, but they got eaten up by inflationary arbitration awards.

With only three players under contract at the end of 2005-06, the Sabres had a league-high 12 players file for arbitration. The rulings were so costly, the club had to walk away from winger J.P. Dumont’s to be in compliance for the start of the season. The Sabres were forced to part with goalie Martin Biron at the February trade deadline to get under the cap because injury call-ups from the Rochester Americans had nudged them over the cap.

“For us, the cap isn’t the real issue; it’s keeping the team intact and having positive cash flow,” Quinn said. “Tom saved the team, and that’s great. But Tom isn’t always going to be here, and if the team can’t operate on its own, it can’t be viable long-term. It’s up to us to make sure this team can pay its own freight.”
.................
Revenues this season were incredible by local standards. But Chief Operating Officer Dan DiPofi said the team didn’t come close to rating among the league’s upper half in revenues — 41 home sellouts notwithstanding — because regular-season ticket prices put them near the bottom third at the gate. Expect those prices to increase.

But the Sabres can find solace in the fact the 15 least lucrative teams qualify for revenue sharing. Although he didn’t provide a figure, DiPofi projected the Sabres would receive about as much as they did for last season.

“You still have the haves and the have-nots,” Golisano said. “The revenue sharing is a partial cure. If you take a team like Toronto, with ticket revenues 2 1/2 times ours, they love it when the salary cap goes up. But the Sabres and the competition for the players? It gets more difficult.”

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabresnhl/story/85035.html

The corporate ticket is the key to profitability.

 

[Fugu]

The NHL target for corporate tickets is 60%. Some reach it, some exceed it and others are nowhere close. It is the latter that cause problems.

Without that level of corporate involvement snapping up premium priced tickets, even selling out the arena to Joe and Jane Sixpack makes it difficult to compete at the upper end of the salary cap. Tom Golisano made that clear in his May 2007 press conference.

In Buffalo they sell out the HSBC arena (with a waiting list of 6,000 reportedly) but they are in difficulties because of the small corporate ticket base. In Nashville they have dropped a small corporate ticket base by over 50% (4000-1800) over the years and are not selling out so they are in even worse shape.

The Buffalo and Nashville situations should be a warning signal to similar small markets with limited corporate market such as Winnipeg and and Quebec City.

You're still ignoring the cause and effect. What causes the corporations to show interest in paying a premium for NHL tickets?

I understand all that you've just summarized above, perhaps as evidenced by my citation of those very owners you use as case studies here.

 

[Spungo*]

If that's true that Buffalo loses money unless they reach the 2nd round of the playoffs, then the NHL is really not healthy. That also means that, the coyotes, the predators, the blackhawks, the sabres, the oilers and many other teams are losing a lot of money and that they could lose their team in a few years. Then, the nhl inscreases the salary cap ? That makes no sense unless bettman is insane. I'm really starting to believe the owners are a bunch of liars.

The salary cap was never intended to allow all 30 teams to spend right up to the cap.

Small market teams like Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary, Nashville, etc. cost the NHL an entire season already. I'm not going to feel sorry for them because their budgets force them to spend 5 million less than Toronto, Detroit, New York, etc.

Give me a break. Some big markets used to spend 60 million more than small market teams... yes, 60 million dollars. I don't want to hear whining and *****ing over 5 or 6 million. Toronto should be able to outspend Buffalo. We're bigger, our fans pay more to see games, etc.

 

[nomorekids]

The salary cap was never intended to allow all 30 teams to spend right up to the cap.

Small market teams like Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary, Nashville, etc. cost the NHL an entire season already. I'm not going to feel sorry for them because their budgets force them to spend 5 million less than Toronto, Detroit, New York, etc.

Give me a break. Some big markets used to spend 60 million more than small market teams... yes, 60 million dollars. I don't want to hear whining and *****ing over 5 or 6 million. Toronto should be able to outspend Buffalo. We're bigger, our fans pay more to see games, etc.

Then you really have no right to whine about things like "Anti Leafs bias," now do you? It's lonely at the top, as they say.

 

[Spungo*]

Then you really have no right to whine about things like "Anti Leafs bias," now do you? It's lonely at the top, as they say.

I don't know what you're referring to. I don't complain about "anti-leaf bias".

 

[nomorekids]

I don't know what you're referring to. I don't complain about "anti-leaf bias".

Read any thread where someone says "Plus, it's always been player X's dream to play for the Leafs," and what follows is a stream of, "WHY THE HELL WOULD HE WANT TO DO THAT, LOLLL" to which the retort is, "ugh, this is just the typical anti-leafs bias on the board, TSN, and in the eyes of God"

 

[Sotnos]

It's not the first time i read this thing, so i have a genuine question:
how is that in all playoff games i watched there were a lot of empty seat in Anaheim? (Conference finals as well, for example. That was depressing to see)
Were they awarding free tickets to people not caring?
are people in Anaheim so relaxed and rich to spend money to buy tickets and then choosing to do something else depending on the weather?

I think the local time of the games had a lot to do with that. The games looked a lot more full at the end than at the beginning.

 

[Wetcoaster]

You're still ignoring the cause and effect. What causes the corporations to show interest in paying a premium for NHL tickets?

I understand all that you've just summarized above, perhaps as evidenced by my citation of those very owners you use as case studies here.

You are Ignoring the fact that the potential corporate markets in many of the current (and potential) smaller market cities simply are not large enough.

 

[Doc Scurlock]

You are Ignoring the fact that the potential corporate markets in many of the current (and potential) smaller market cities simply are not large enough.

That and they may be splitting the corporate dollars because of another team being in the same city, for example in Buffalo's case you've got the Bills. Sure your very rich corporations would be able to buy tickets for both teams but your mid-range and lower corporations might only settle for one team.

Nashville, same thing. You've got the Titans and they'll eat away some of the Preds' corporate support. In Quebec City you won't run into that kind of problem simply because if a team goes to that city then they will be the number one team in that city.

The only questions that need to be answered are does Quebec City have enough good sized businesses that would be willing to purchase tickets. I don't know enough about Quebec City to answer that question so I'll leave that for someone else.