Prospect Info: Prospect Rating #4 (2023 Version) [edit: vote for Poulin or Puustinen to avoid a runoff poll]

[Peat]

What is Puustinen's high end potential though realistically?

His best case scenario is a middle six forward who largely produces off the powerplay ala Olofsson in Buffalo.

Poulin's best case scenario is a middle six forward, all situational player who can flash skill and add some big bodied play. I take Poulin's all day tbh.

This.

I would also add that it's a general truism that bigger bodies take more time to finish maturing, and Poulin is two years younger. They are at very different parts of their curve and Poulin has a lot more runway.

edit: If we want to talk straight numbers, then Poulin had more EV points in 2022 than Puustinen. It wasn't impressive for either of them, but it's that EV scoring that will get them regular shifts. Puustinen needs to be able to take a regular NHL shift before his PP scoring comes into play. At ES, there is no numerical evidence that Puustinen has a higher potential.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Pouliot, Poulin, Puustinen. All of our poo players end up being major poo-poo anyway. We need to vote for guys who don’t have poo in their name, like Sergei Murashov.

This guy gets it. The Curse of Poo.

 

[SomeDude]

I just don't see this as the argument for the two players.

I don't get why people think Poulin is the bigger, safer, less offensive forward.

He was producing less offensively than Puusy when he was 20 in the AHL and Puusy was 22.

If Puusy wasn't producing more than Poulin, I'd be a little shocked tbh given the pedigree he came over with.

Also. Poulin had 16 goals and 37 points in 70ish games while Puusy and 20 and 42 points in 70ish that year.

Poulin still has the higher offensive upside IMO. It's the one thing that makes me think he still has hope as a prospect..

Really it just comes down to personal preference, which is the reason for these exercises.

I will end my argument with this plea: Vote for Valtteri, he would vote for you.

 

[Ulf5]

Puustinen

.57 ppg first year in WBS, .81 ppg last year. If Murashov hits his 90% range of outcomes, he'll have way more value but I'll take the guy that is closest to potentially playing for the big club. He'll need to have a very good training camp and force the teams hand but I think there actually is a path for him with Guentzel on IR to start the year.

Poulin also a fine option here given his pedigree, but Puusty is the one who has actually produced in games.

Has to be Murashov. The guy completely dominated as far as I've read.
Puustinen is already 24 and never getting a shot from Sully. Will probably score 20 when claimed off waivers from someone.
Poulin is running out of time too. I thought he had it watching him in his 1st training camp. Hopefully it all clicks. And soon.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Poulin Ceiling: Two Way Third Liner
Poulin Floor: 13th Forward

Puustinen Ceiling: Scoring Second Liner
Puustinen Floor: AHL Scorer

However, I feel that Puustinen has outperformed Poulin at the AHL level. Meaning Puustinen gets the slight edge for me. Yes, age counts but I still give Puus the edge.


My real vote is for Murashov.

And if HFPens decided Hallander counted as a prospect, I'd be voting Hallander as #4.

 

[SomeDude]

My body is ready for the Murashov hype train but need to see how he does this year before I’m going all in.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Poulin has some things to overcome apparently mentally but hockey wise I think he is the much better talent when comparing to Puss.

Puustinen while having an ok year in WBS I am not as impressed with it or his Euro play as some. The league he came from is pretty weak, not many players from it made the NHL, not to say they can't.

I just expect more from Poulin and feel he has more upside at a younger age

 

[Gurglesons]

Poulin Ceiling: Two Way Third Liner
Poulin Floor: 13th Forward

Puustinen Ceiling: Scoring Second Liner
Puustinen Floor: AHL Scorer

However, I feel that Puustinen has outperformed Poulin at the AHL level. Meaning Puustinen gets the slight edge for me. Yes, age counts but I still give Puus the edge.


My real vote is for Murashov.

And if HFPens decided Hallander counted as a prospect, I'd be voting Hallander as #4.

Is this using your model?

 

[Gurglesons]

Not a fan of these cards, but just for reference..

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Not a fan of these cards, but just for reference..

First I've heard of this guy/website. I'm interested in learning more.

Also, that Poulin chart is a year older than the Puustinen one.

 

[Ulf5]

Not a fan of these cards, but just for reference..

Wait, wut? Chariot? I haven't heard those rumors.

 

[Gurglesons]

Wait, wut? Chariot? I haven't heard those rumors.

That was around 21-22 when we settled for Rakell and Beaulieau.

 

[Gurglesons]

For those that are low on Pickering and Yager these are Pronman's projections

 

[Randy Butternubs]

@PensandCaps @TheCrosbyShow @john g @deakka @KareemTrustfund @Caser @Asuna @Ulf5 @Big Friggin Dummy @Wes C Addle @Coastal Kev

Please consider changing your vote to one of Poulin or Puustinen so that we can avoid a run-off poll.

And apologies if I've already made you change your vote or if I've already @'d at you.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Puustinen it is.

View attachment 734561

For those that are low on Pickering and Yager these are Pronman's projections

A pick away from having Benson fall into the team's lap. Bummer. Hope he doesn't turn into another Caufield.

 

[Gurglesons]

Puustinen it is.


A pick away from having Benson fall into the team's lap. Bummer. Hope he doesn't turn into another Caufield.

At least we know our new GM would've taken Benson which is an improvement on Shero, Rutherford and Hextall...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

At least we know our new GM would've taken Benson which is an improvement on Shero, Rutherford and Hextall...

I think Dubas kinda of let the scouting team do their thing but if someone like Benson fell into their laps, he probably would've made the decision himself to take him. /shrug

Even Yager was projected as a top-5 talent a year before his draft year iirc from cursory glances at articles and discussion. He might turn out to be the better of the two in time, we just have to wait and see I guess.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Honestly I'm not nearly as high on Benson as others are. He's a severely undersized winger that allegedly has concerns about his skating speed, I think that's a death sentence for a prospect like him. He may survive just by being super shifty, but his skating seems like a major concern.

Yager doesn't have that concern, his skating is rated well plus he has solid size. Yager seems like a safer pick than Benson, Benson likely has a higher upside but Yager's more likely to be an effective NHLer (somewhere between a Sutter/Kennedy caliber 3rd liner to a Konecny caliber 1st liner) than Benson is.

 

[Gurglesons]

Honestly I'm not nearly as high on Benson as others are. He's a severely undersized winger that allegedly has concerns about his skating speed, I think that's a death sentence for a prospect like him. He may survive just by being super shifty, but his skating seems like a major concern.

Yager doesn't have that concern, his skating is rated well plus he has solid size. Yager seems like a safer pick than Benson, Benson likely has a higher upside but Yager's more likely to be an effective NHLer (somewhere between a Sutter/Kennedy caliber 3rd liner to a Konecny caliber 1st liner) than Benson is.

Benson has a huge motor. He is the type of player that has skill and compete which is why people are high on him.

 

[Peat]

Honestly I'm not nearly as high on Benson as others are. He's a severely undersized winger that allegedly has concerns about his skating speed, I think that's a death sentence for a prospect like him. He may survive just by being super shifty, but his skating seems like a major concern.

Yager doesn't have that concern, his skating is rated well plus he has solid size. Yager seems like a safer pick than Benson, Benson likely has a higher upside but Yager's more likely to be an effective NHLer (somewhere between a Sutter/Kennedy caliber 3rd liner to a Konecny caliber 1st liner) than Benson is.

Depending on which profile you believe, Yager is lighter than Benson to the same weight, and either the same height or two inches taller. Whichever it is, it's not solid size at this point, and possibly as severely undersized.

Also the first three scouting profiles had no questions about Benson's skating speed, with one praising it. Which isn't all that different to Yager's scouting reports really - a mix with some praise. I'd say scouting reports like Benson's edgework a lot more.

I'd have probably done some bad things to get Benson to drop that one extra spot.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

@PensandCaps @TheCrosbyShow @john g @deakka @KareemTrustfund @Caser @Asuna @Ulf5 @Big Friggin Dummy @Wes C Addle @Coastal Kev

Please consider changing your vote to one of Poulin or Puustinen so that we can avoid a run-off poll.

And apologies if I've already made you change your vote or if I've already @'d at you.

@Big McLargehuge you too please

 

[Turin]

I went with Poulin because I think it's more likely he carves out a bottom six career than Puustinen doing so.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think the problem with Puus isnt that he’s a bad prospect or player it’s that if he’s a successful NHL player I think he’s a sheltered offense only small winger that tops out around 40 points with some PP usage. Not sure if that’s super valuable or where you put it in a winning lineup. Poulin maybe has more upside to be more of a driver but again the skating and lack of fast twitch movement scares me.

This is why I had Broz over both lmao

Honestly I'm not nearly as high on Benson as others are. He's a severely undersized winger that allegedly has concerns about his skating speed, I think that's a death sentence for a prospect like him. He may survive just by being super shifty, but his skating seems like a major concern.

Yager doesn't have that concern, his skating is rated well plus he has solid size. Yager seems like a safer pick than Benson, Benson likely has a higher upside but Yager's more likely to be an effective NHLer (somewhere between a Sutter/Kennedy caliber 3rd liner to a Konecny caliber 1st liner) than Benson is.

Backwards for me. Benson is bigger than Yager and a better overall skater- add how much more skilled he is and I think he’s a much safer pick. Yager can skate faster in a straight line and has a harder shot. Benson does everything better outside of that. I would have picked Benson 5th, imo he was the best player not named Bedard, Michkov, Carlson, or Fantilli. I think Benson has higher upside too- however Yager could be the superior player if his skating improves and he plays to what people thought he could be a year ago which was a top 3-5 pick.

Hockeyprospect basically said everyone and their mother is high on Benson but the fear with him was that he cannot translate his style to the NHL without injury at his size. Not sure I agree with the logic there but still didn’t make it out of the lottery.

 

[Peat]

I think the problem with Puus isnt that he’s a bad prospect or player it’s that if he’s a successful NHL player I think he’s a sheltered offense only small winger that tops out around 40 points with some PP usage. Not sure if that’s super valuable or where you put it in a winning lineup. Poulin maybe has more upside to be more of a driver but again the skating and lack of fast twitch movement scares me.

This is why I had Broz over both lmao

That's Daniel "Six NHL Teams By 26" Sprong's music.

Tbh I like your logic re Broz. I have more faith in Poulin's ability to hack NHL tempo than you, but Broz has tools and doesn't have the glaring holes that need improving that Puustinen and Poulin too. Of course, it would be easier to vote for him if he hadn't taken a season and a half to figure out the NCAA.

Backwards for me. Benson is bigger than Yager and a better overall skater- add how much more skilled he is and I think he’s a much safer pick. Yager can skate faster in a straight line and has a harder shot. Benson does everything better outside of that. I would have picked Benson 5th, imo he was the best player not named Bedard, Michkov, Carlson, or Fantilli. I think Benson has higher upside too- however Yager could be the superior player if his skating improves and he plays to what people thought he could be a year ago which was a top 3-5 pick.

Hockeyprospect basically said everyone and their mother is high on Benson but the fear with him was that he cannot translate his style to the NHL without injury at his size. Not sure I agree with the logic there but still didn’t make it out of the lottery.

That... words fail me. Pretty much everyone who plays his style gets injured, bar some freaky guys with titanium bones and steel sinews. But his style is about the most valuable going. Dual creators who can play in traffic tilt the ice.

I never paid a whole ton of attention to this year's draft. Was still very bleh on the NHL and didn't really expect us to keep the pick. So I don't really know who I liked from this draft. But I just kind of fell in love with Benson from seeing a few clips and reading a few profiles, then doing some digging. Some of his clips are just the closest thing I've seen to Sid in a prospect.

As for safest... I've been prodding at this, because of the way Poulin was seen as safest when as Pixies points out, some were calling him risky for obvious reasons.

I think once you pass a certain physical and technical threshold - which most prospects aren't entirely over on all fronts - the safest traits are intensity and hockey IQ. Coaches are always going to love a guy who they can trust to bring it. Look at Josh Archibald. Probably the least talented speedster to pass through here in Sully's tenure. One of the smallest too. But he played hard, and based on contract is booked to play in the NHL until 32. More successful than the classic safe big body with okay hands that is Tom Kuhnhackl.

Benson is on Wheeler's list for top 5 most competitive and smartest guys in the draft. To me, that's about as safe as it gets, even if he's on the shorter side and not an amazing skater.

Not sure a lot of people will agree with that, but that's what I see.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Puus should have been #3 being NHL ready moreso. Poulin right behind Blom/puus.

So we could avoid #5 voting just making whom ever loses takes the 5 position.