Prospect Info: Prospect Rating #4 (2023 Version) [edit: vote for Poulin or Puustinen to avoid a runoff poll]

[Andy99]

I went with Murashov for talent alone but between the leaders in this poll of Poulin and Puustinen, Poulin by far…they both have limitations but Poulin looks more ready for NHL duty atm

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don't know anything about Murashov. Not gonna pretend that I do.

Between Puustinen and Poulin I think Puustinen has more upside but Poulin will get more opportunity, at least under Sullivan.
Considering Puustinen is already 24 and the coach is probably here for years still, I'm not hopeful about him being able to do anything as a Pittsburgh Penguin. Might be best to ship him off to a bad team that will actually play prospects, instead of wasting his youth in this organization.

 

[SomeDude]

Why?

He’s clearly our best prospect after the three listed.

If you swapped Poulin and Puustinen’s draft positions, Puusy may be considered our top prospect and Poulin wouldn’t even be an after thought.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If you swapped Poulin and Puustinen’s draft positions, Puusy may be considered our top prospect and Poulin wouldn’t even be an after thought.

Well said.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you swapped Poulin and Puustinen’s draft positions, Puusy may be considered our top prospect and Poulin wouldn’t even be an after thought.

I don't agree at all.

I actually think Poulin is getting shit on by a lot of her fans because of where he was drafted. He's 22 and has had a bunch of off ice issues.

He has produced very well in the AHL for his age and his junior career was impressive.

He has the size and skill of an NHL player and we saw that when he was up in the NHL.

Puustinen is undersized and a lot of his production has been powerplay based.

I'd argue Big Puusy is getting a lot of love because of stat watching versus Poulin getting love for people that have actually paid attention to his play in the AHL and prior.

For the record, I think both could be NHLers if given proper usage and I'm not trying to disparage Puustinen.

 

[SomeDude]

I don't agree at all.

I actually think Poulin is getting shit on by a lot of her fans because of where he was drafted. He's 22 and has had a bunch of off ice issues.

He has produced very well in the AHL for his age and his junior career was impressive.

He has the size and skill of an NHL player and we saw that when he was up in the NHL.

Puustinen is undersized and a lot of his production has been powerplay based.

I'd argue Big Puusy is getting a lot of love because of stat watching versus Poulin getting love for people that have actually paid attention to his play in the AHL and prior.

I don’t think many are shitting on him, it’s just becoming more obvious by the year that he is unlikely to hit his offensive ceiling. Doesn’t mean he’s not going to be an NHL player.

When you’re ranking prospects, most people value goal scoring and point production over anything else because it is the most expensive attribute when it comes to contract value.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno a lot of people who follow WB/S closely don't have much good to say about Poulin.

I get that Poulin has NHL size and draft pedigree and probably more easily projects to be an NHLer (though probably in a depth role) but I guess I always go with higher end potential. Even if that's often a bust scenario.

Regardless this pool is like three or four guys and a sea of whatever. That's what happens when you win a lot for nearly 20 years, I guess.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t think many are shitting on him, it’s just becoming more obvious by the year that he is unlikely to hit his offensive ceiling. Doesn’t mean he’s not going to be an NHL player.

When you’re ranking prospects, most people value goal scoring and point production over anything else because it is the most expensive attribute when it comes to contract value.

I question what people were expecting of him offensively.

I think Poulin got really overblown because of a big season in a weak league after his draft.

 

[SomeDude]

I question what people were expecting of him offensively.

Let’s put it this way: no team knowingly drafts a bottom 6 winger with a 1st round pick.

 

[Gurglesons]

I dunno a lot of people who follow WB/S closely don't have much good to say about Poulin.

I get that Poulin has NHL size and draft pedigree and probably more easily projects to be an NHLer (though probably in a depth role) but I guess I always go with higher end potential. Even if that's often a bust scenario.

Regardless this pool is like three or four guys and a sea of whatever. That's what happens when you win a lot for nearly 20 years, I guess.

What is Puustinen's high end potential though realistically?

His best case scenario is a middle six forward who largely produces off the powerplay ala Olofsson in Buffalo.

Poulin's best case scenario is a middle six forward, all situational player who can flash skill and add some big bodied play. I take Poulin's all day tbh.

Let’s put it this way: no team knowingly drafts a bottom 6 winger with a 1st round pick.

I really don't get this line of thinking with Poulin. We drafted him to be a high impact offensive talent. He hasn't panned out in that regard because of his skating which was always the knock.

People are always saying we need to "take the high reward player" and we did in Poulin and now people are mad that the high reward didn't turn out even though there are still a lot of NHL traits.

Poulin is way more of a unicorn skill set than Big Puusy and if he even is just a 15 goal 15 assist guy adding a player with that kind of flash and size would be huge for this squad.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I changed my vote to Puustinen.

 

[SEALBound]

I get why people are saying Puustinen but Poulin is a better bet for the NHL IMHO.

Poulin I think could carve out a Bleuger-esque career. Puustinen, Simon if he's lucky.

 

[Gurglesons]

I get why people are saying Puustinen but Poulin is a better bet for the NHL IMHO.

Poulin I think could carve out a Bleuger-esque career. Puustinen, Simon if he's lucky.

I don't see this at all.

If Poulin breaks into the NHL, I would imagine he's in the Gabe Vilardi realm with less production.

 

[SomeDude]

I really don't get this line of thinking with Poulin. We drafted him to be a high impact offensive talent. He hasn't panned out in that regard because of his skating which was always the knock.

People are always saying we need to "take the high reward player" and we did in Poulin and now people are mad that the high reward didn't turn out even though there are still a lot of NHL traits.

Poulin is way more of a unicorn skill set than Big Puusy and if he even is just a 15 goal 15 assist guy adding a player with that kind of flash and size would be huge for this squad.

I don’t know why you think people are lining up with pitch forks wanting to burn Poulin at the stake. I don’t think anyone has flat out said he’s never going to be an NHL player.

There are plenty of 1st round picks that didn’t hit their offensive ceiling but still had long respectable careers. We’ve had a lot here, guys like Rupp, Fehr, Boyle, etc.

There’s a reason that NHL teams choose to pay those guys way less than one dimensional offensive pp specialists like Oloffsson, it’s because the role players are easier to find and replace for cheaper.

Goal scoring is the most coveted skill. I’ll take my chances on a high upside undersized goal scorer than a bigger, safer, less offensive output forward.

Like you said, had Poulin hit, he would have been a unicorn large skilled player that was the complete package. It was a calculated risk. He’s now reaching the point in his development where he pretty much is what it is. His skating isn’t going to improve much more at this point.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I dunno a lot of people who follow WB/S closely don't have much good to say about Poulin.

I get that Poulin has NHL size and draft pedigree and probably more easily projects to be an NHLer (though probably in a depth role) but I guess I always go with higher end potential. Even if that's often a bust scenario.

Regardless this pool is like three or four guys and a sea of whatever. That's what happens when you win a lot for nearly 20 years, I guess.

They drafted him for the size and got burnt. Many guys below him in that 2019 draft already making decent impacts at the NHL level. The standouts being Maccelli, Tomasino, Pinto and Parssinen.

Luckily for us, it seems like an extremely weak draft and we didn't lose out on much.

 

[SEALBound]

I don't see this at all.

If Poulin breaks into the NHL, I would imagine he's in the Gabe Vilardi realm with less production.

Gabe is running at a 50pt pace roughly, Bleuger was at a 35pt pace roughly (the year before). So I mean, Vilardi with less production would be peak Bleuger, would it not?

And when I say "Bleuger-esque" I was in no way tying that to a style of play, ability comparison, etc. I was merely saying a guy who spends 3.5-4 seasons in the AHL, comes to the NHL and provides solid 4th line play and can pinch hit in the middle 6.

I don't think that's out of the question for Poulin.

I really don't get this line of thinking with Poulin. We drafted him to be a high impact offensive talent. He hasn't panned out in that regard because of his skating which was always the knock.

People are always saying we need to "take the high reward player" and we did in Poulin and now people are mad that the high reward didn't turn out even though there are still a lot of NHL traits.

Poulin is way more of a unicorn skill set than Big Puusy and if he even is just a 15 goal 15 assist guy adding a player with that kind of flash and size would be huge for this squad.

I don't think that is quite true. That reeks of revisionism and hindsight.

I don't recall Poulin having a "high impact offensive talent" tag nor did anyone consider him a "High reward player". The biggest knock on Poulin was indeed his skating but I do remember people being mad when the general report was "this is a long-term project player for the Penguins", which may be the most accurate scouting report for a player in quite some time for us.

I voted Poulin over Puustinen but at the same time, I don't see Poulin having a "unicorn skill set" at all. What does that even mean? What is so special about Poulin's skill set that it makes him a unicorn?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They drafted him for the size and got burnt. Many guys below him in that 2019 draft already making decent impacts at the NHL level. The standouts being Maccelli, Tomasino, Pinto and Parssinen.

Luckily for us, it seems like an extremely weak draft and we didn't lose out on much.

Looking up and down the Penguins draft results rn and it's like picking through the wreckage of a burned out wasteland haha

That 2016, 2017 and 2018 stretch in particular pretty grim.

Though uh... considering the NHL results in that same window I can hardly complain.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Looking up and down the Penguins draft results rn and it's like picking through the wreckage of a burned out wasteland haha

The 1sts since Staal for sure are so bad you wonder how that's mathematically possible.
But with the 2nds we did f***ing great lol.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I want to burn Poulin at the stake as I think he'll never be an NHL player. Currently sharpening my pitchfork.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The 1sts since Staal for sure are so bad you wonder how that's mathematically possible.
But with the 2nds we did f***ing great lol.

The Penguins have always done oddly well with their 2nd rounders for the most part.

Especially when you look at them next to their utterly shit first round selections in the same timeframe.

EDIT: Third rounders yielded some absolute gold, too. Letang, Guentzel, Rust, etc.

 

[Gurglesons]

Gabe is running at a 50pt pace roughly, Bleuger was at a 35pt pace roughly (the year before). So I mean, Vilardi with less production would be peak Bleuger, would it not?

And when I say "Bleuger-esque" I was in no way tying that to a style of play, ability comparison, etc. I was merely saying a guy who spends 3.5-4 seasons in the AHL, comes to the NHL and provides solid 4th line play and can pinch hit in the middle 6.

I don't think that's out of the question for Poulin.


I don't think that is quite true. That reeks of revisionism and hindsight.

I don't recall Poulin having a "high impact offensive talent" tag nor did anyone consider him a "High reward player". The biggest knock on Poulin was indeed his skating but I do remember people being mad when the general report was "this is a long-term project player for the Penguins", which may be the most accurate scouting report for a player in quite some time for us.

I voted Poulin over Puustinen but at the same time, I don't see Poulin having a "unicorn skill set" at all. What does that even mean? What is so special about Poulin's skill set that it makes him a unicorn?

Team fit: I listed Poulin as my player most likely to be overdrafted. The Penguins have a fairly shallow pool and don't get to pick in the first round very often. I view this as a high-risk, high-reward pick in this range just because I question Poulin's overall hockey sense and consistency of effort. An intriguing prospect nonetheless. -- Peters

2019 NHL draft: Pick analysis for every team

Every single pick of the NHL draft, including prospect breakdowns and how each first-rounder fits with his new team.

www.espn.com

24th overall: Nashville Predators select F Samuel Poulin from the Sherbrooke Phoenix​

The Nashville Predators’ biggest issue in 2018-19 was scoring, with only three 20-goal scorers. In fact, in the franchise’s history, they’ve had just nine instances of a player scoring 30 or more goals and the new franchise record for goals in a season was established in 2018-19 by Viktor Arvidsson with 34. Arvidsson is great, as is Filip Forsberg, but neither are considered a top-tier sniper. That’s where Samuel Poulin enters the picture. He may be the best pure goal scorer in the draft, thanks to an unreal release that helped him score 29 goals this season in the ‘Q.’ He knows where to go in the offensive zone to score goals, is unafraid to go to the gritty areas, and unlike other players in this draft, already possesses the size to withstand the abuse he’ll encounter in the NHL. He’s also dedicated to backchecking, something the Predators require of their forwards. He may not currently be the quickest skater, but that’s a skill that can be developed. Poulin best fits the team’s needs and he was available when their pick came up. There was no reason to overthink this. [Kyle Gipe]

2019 NHL Draft - Writers Mock Draft

In advance of the 2019 NHL Draft, The Hockey Writers' writing staff assemble to conduct their annual staff mock draft on behalf of the 31 NHL teams.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

They’re both unremarkable prospects (Puustinen and Poulin).

I didn’t think Poulin did anything noteworthy in his NHL game. Yeah he had a secondary assist but I do not think the skating is where it needs to be for him to be consistently impactful enough to be a full time top 9 NHL player. I think it was better in his draft year as he’s looked heavy and sluggish since Covid imo. I liked Poulin pre draft too.

 

[SomeDude]

It’s just nice to have something other than Tristan Jarry and Kyle Dubas to bicker about for a spell.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The Penguins have always done oddly well with their 2nd rounders for the most part.

Especially when you look at them next to their utterly shit first round selections in the same timeframe.

Goes to show little value there is in scouting beyond the top 10.
They follow these guys around overseas or in North American Leagues all year and then get it woefully wrong lol.
76 players chosen before Jake?
61 before Letang?
229 before Hornqvist?
79 before Rust?

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t know why you think people are lining up with pitch forks wanting to burn Poulin at the stake. I don’t think anyone has flat out said he’s never going to be an NHL player.

There are plenty of 1st round picks that didn’t hit their offensive ceiling but still had long respectable careers. We’ve had a lot here, guys like Rupp, Fehr, Boyle, etc.

There’s a reason that NHL teams choose to pay those guys way less than one dimensional offensive pp specialists like Oloffsson, it’s because the role players are easier to find and replace for cheaper.

Goal scoring is the most coveted skill. I’ll take my chances on a high upside undersized goal scorer than a bigger, safer, less offensive output forward.

Like you said, had Poulin hit, he would have been a unicorn large skilled player that was the complete package. It was a calculated risk. He’s now reaching the point in his development where he pretty much is what it is. His skating isn’t going to improve much more at this point.

I just don't see this as the argument for the two players.

I don't get why people think Poulin is the bigger, safer, less offensive forward.

He was producing less offensively than Puusy when he was 20 in the AHL and Puusy was 22.

If Puusy wasn't producing more than Poulin, I'd be a little shocked tbh given the pedigree he came over with.

Also. Poulin had 16 goals and 37 points in 70ish games while Puusy and 20 and 42 points in 70ish that year.

Poulin still has the higher offensive upside IMO. It's the one thing that makes me think he still has hope as a prospect..