Propose a new rule for 2016-2017

[Otto]

anyone who attempts to argue that fighting leads to suicide should be ashamed of themselves. They are clearly taking advantage of that one unfortunate offseason in which three former enforcers committed suicide and using it for their anti-fighting agenda. Are you happy those guys died to help fuel your argument?

Fighting like many things in hockey can lead to head injuries. Sports doctors did not know nearly as much about concussions years ago as they did now. Had the concussion protocals of today been in place 20 years earlier, there would have been fewer of them, less sever ones and specifically fewer repeat concussions on the same players.

Increasing penalties to 4 minutes wont eliminate rats. What it will do is cause rats to try harder to agitate the stars; who wouldn't eliminate their rat along with the oppositions star for 4 minutes? It will also increase diving which is out of control especially at the junior level.

any injuries which could be caused by fighting could also be caused by hitting. Should the sport revert to non-contact?

There's an evolution in place already for fighting; we're not seeing the designated enforcer any more, teams have switched gears to getting players who can play but will drop the gloves if they have to.

Actually, I used to love hockey fights. it was only until I started researching the data regarding CTE that I changed my position. To say that fighting does not play a part in CTE and those suicides shows that you have elected to not look into both sides of the equation.

Tell me, how would you feel if this was your brother, or father? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...gles-with-concussions-hockey/article28929084/

 

[cujoflutie]

Actually, I used to love hockey fights. it was only until I started researching the data regarding CTE that I changed my position. To say that fighting does not play a part in CTE and those suicides shows that you have elected to not look into both sides of the equation.

Tell me, how would you feel if this was your brother, or father? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...gles-with-concussions-hockey/article28929084/

If fighting causes suicides then why does it not happen more often? There’s plenty of players who fought frequently in the 60’s and 70’s with less equipment and are still alive and well today? A blow to the head can cause depressions but so can hitting so why aren’t you advocating no contact?

Fighting doesn’t need to happen to create a positive effect. The fact that it’s there deters many players from underhanded things. It’s the same concept as a police officer who may spend their entire day patrolling an area without arresting a single person; it doesn’t mean their presence was wasted.

If your brother or father died in a plane crash, would you be advocating to ban airplanes?

 

[Otto]

If fighting causes suicides then why does it not happen more often? There’s plenty of players who fought frequently in the 60’s and 70’s with less equipment and are still alive and well today? A blow to the head can cause depressions but so can hitting so why aren’t you advocating no contact?

Fighting doesn’t need to happen to create a positive effect. The fact that it’s there deters many players from underhanded things. It’s the same concept as a police officer who may spend their entire day patrolling an area without arresting a single person; it doesn’t mean their presence was wasted.

If your brother or father died in a plane crash, would you be advocating to ban airplanes?

The research on CTE has just come to light over the last few years, it's quite possible that some of those players had CTE and were not aware. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing until after the person dies and they can dissect the brain. It makes me wonder though about players such as Doug Harvey and Busher Jackson who died penniless and homeless.

I have yet to see a study that indicates hitting in hockey in any area other than the head can cause depression.

if my father or brother were killed as a result of something that the airline was negligent in than I would do what was in my power to ensure that negligence did not happen again.

 

[Otto]

Fighting doesn’t need to happen to create a positive effect. The fact that it’s there deters many players from underhanded things.

I re-read your post and this statement intrigued me. I have heard these comments before but I have never seen the factual evidence to back them up. Do you have something that I could read in regards to this?

 

[Ward Cornell]

I take zero enjoyment in seeing young kids duking it out on the ice, as a matter of fact I actually don't like seeing it.
Seeing pro's fighting doesn't have the same affect on me.
I just don't understand the disgust of fighting in hockey due to CTE but some of the anti-fighting fans due to CTE also are some of the biggest MMA fans....just seems like a total disconnect.


For rule changes....I would like to see defensive teams when the other team have the puck behind hash-marks (have a line from board to board for my other rule) in their zone need to have at least one forechecker within the blueline to prevent the trap affect.

Also I would like the defensive team must have 2 of their forwards above that "hashline" (see above). This will prevent teams from collapsing all 5 players around their net.

Have a defined height of glass in all arenas to prevent delay of game penalties due to inconsistent glass heights.
Also no whistle if the puck hits the mesh and drops to the ice.

 

[Otto]

I take zero enjoyment in seeing young kids duking it out on the ice, as a matter of fact I actually don't like seeing it.
Seeing pro's fighting doesn't have the same affect on me.
I just don't understand the disgust of fighting in hockey due to CTE but some of the anti-fighting fans due to CTE also are some of the biggest MMA fans....just seems like a total disconnect.
.

I don't even consider MMA a sport. Guys kicking other guys doesn't seem right. I used to be a pretty big boxing fan, but again my opinion has changed in light of the science.

 

[Ward Cornell]

If there's no reseeding for overall standings for the playoff matchups then barebones there should be a reseeding and a possible crossover matchups when the top 2 conference teams are known.

 

[Ward Cornell]

I don't even consider MMA a sport. Guys kicking other guys doesn't seem right. I used to be a pretty big boxing fan, but again my opinion has changed in light of the science.

Agreed....I also suspect the sport of football will be in dire straits when High School sports start to drop it due to the liability issues!

 

[OHLTG]

I don't even consider MMA a sport.

Which is your choice. Doesn't mean it's not, though. I find it hard to consider Golf a sport. Doesn't mean it's not, though. There are sports world-wide that many of us would go "what in the ??" about. Doesn't mean they're not sports in their part of the world.

 

[aresknights]

Count me in as one who used to love hockey fights. After being a trainer for a few teams (competitive levels 15-20 yr olds) a first-aid instructor and seeing the scientific evidence I'm not as big a fan. I still see a place for it unfortunately, but cringe when I see it.
"See The Line" is a great 2day info session put on at Western U every summer. Lots of great info. Free to attend and I recommend it parents, coaches trainers involved in any sport.
So much more is known now. Depression, addiction, quality of life...... all can be effected during and post career. (Kordic anyone?)
Head shots are often subject to discipline ( suspension) and rightfully so but knock a kid out and it's 5 min?
It's trending down and will continue to do so. Rightfully so.
I hate the staged fights or fights after a clean hit. Totally unnecessary.
Kids can play tough hockey without it. But again, unfortunately I still see it as part of the game at higher levels.
Having seen some of the immediate and long lasting damage done from a scrap, let alone those subjected to long term effects I'm almost embarrassed to still endorse it in limited situations.

 

[Petes1987]

Another rule change I would propose is that American players who are not drafted in the OHL draft and come into the league as free agents have to enter the league on entry waivers. So if an American player wants to come to the OHL the lowest place team in previous season or if it is during the season the lowest place team at time that player applies for entry will have first crack at him and if they decline the next lowest place team and so on. The one exception would be players from Michigan and Pennsylvania were the OHL have teams. This would prevent certain teams getting the top American free agents.

 

[aresknights]

Another rule change I would propose is that American players who are not drafted in the OHL draft and come into the league as free agents have to enter the league on entry waivers. So if an American player wants to come to the OHL the lowest place team in previous season or if it is during the season the lowest place team at time that player applies for entry will have first crack at him and if they decline the next lowest place team and so on. The one exception would be players from Michigan and Pennsylvania were the OHL have teams. This would prevent certain teams getting the top American free agents.

A lot of kids with pro aspirations, looking to play in the best developmental league around, won't go to teams who don't develop players.
Teams that work hard, have connections, great facilities n support staff- education/trainers/ billets ect.., offer development and the "dream" will always be rewarded. You gotta sell FAs, not have them fall into your lap.
For some, it's the competition offered, for some it's the staff, for some it's the facilities, for some the teammates.
Up what you have to offer as an organization the FAs will follow. Wether it "seems" fair or not.

 

[Otto]

Another rule change I would propose is that American players who are not drafted in the OHL draft and come into the league as free agents have to enter the league on entry waivers. So if an American player wants to come to the OHL the lowest place team in previous season or if it is during the season the lowest place team at time that player applies for entry will have first crack at him and if they decline the next lowest place team and so on. The one exception would be players from Michigan and Pennsylvania were the OHL have teams. This would prevent certain teams getting the top American free agents.

If a team goes through the effort of scouting a player why should another team have a crack at him?

 

[Rubbers29]

Another rule change I would propose is that American players who are not drafted in the OHL draft and come into the league as free agents have to enter the league on entry waivers. So if an American player wants to come to the OHL the lowest place team in previous season or if it is during the season the lowest place team at time that player applies for entry will have first crack at him and if they decline the next lowest place team and so on. The one exception would be players from Michigan and Pennsylvania were the OHL have teams. This would prevent certain teams getting the top American free agents.

If a team goes through the effort of scouting a player why should another team have a crack at him?

Agreed Otto!! There are 15 rounds in the OHL priority selection. That is 285 chances for the other teams to draft said player. If they don't do their scouting as well as others why is that anyone else fault? and why limit it to players outside OHL markets?

With the outside OHL market rule, is this even an issue in the league?

I am going to assume we're talking about London as they are the team constantly criticized for their American content, but following your guideline over the last few years I can think of Stolarz, Crawley, Martenet, Mermis and Sherwood that fit the criteria.
Which of those players is considered a "Top American free agent"?
The 3 of them currently on the team have been 3 of the most criticized Knights on the boards this year. Dakota is currently ripping up the AHL (when he is not moonlighting in the East Coast league) with a whopping 0.2 ppg and a +/- of -1.
Stolarz is actually doing OK in the AHL but at 22 is yet to make an NHL Start.

 

[Sidekick]

Oh, here we go...again.

"Teams that work hard, have connections, great facilities n support staff- education/trainers/ billets ect.., offer development and the "dream" will always be rewarded. You gotta sell FAs, not have them fall into your lap.
For some, it's the competition offered, for some it's the staff, for some it's the facilities, for some the teammates.
Up what you have to offer as an organization the FAs will follow. Wether it "seems" fair or not."


London fans need to start realizing no other organization is capable of keeping up. The London market is just too big and has no other hockey competition. Here is a list of the other markets in the OHL and their proportional population (in "London's")

London - 1
Kitchener - 0.6
Guelph - 0.33
Erie - 0.27
St.Catharines - 0.36
Hamilton - 1.42
Barrie - 0.37
Sudbury - 0.29
North Bay - 0.15
Kingston - 0.34
Oshawa - 0.41
Peterboro - 0.21
Flint - 0.28
Saginaw - 0.14
Owen Sound - 0.06
Windsor - 0.58
Sarnia - 0.2
Mississauga - 1.95
SSM - 0.21

Ottawa isn't listed, because they have to compete with the Sens. And I question if Mississauga should be on the list, because they have a unique case in terms of ethnic demographics, and also have to compete with Leafs (and Marlies). So really London's market carry the advantages that only Hamilton can match...and I'm sure they will in a few years.

I hear ppl say "well built your own arena that's like a mini-NHL"....that's not happening. Simply put no other teams (other than Hamilton) have the resources needed to entice these players...so in hopes of not wasting picks, most teams move on. Leaving London to dominate in the later rounds. It's not about number of scouts or team success, its 100% about the resources that can be offered to players (private school, specialized coaches, community perks) - a benefit 18 teams cannot compete with.

A great new rule would be EVERY draft pick is tied to a compensatory pick, if the player does not show up in 2 years (or 3 years, whatever). Just like in the 1st round. 200th overall pick doesn't show up after x-number of years? Then as long as they have stayed on your protected list, you get the 201st pick in the next subsequent draft. This would allow ALL 20 teams to pick the players they want without risk.

 

[Otto]

Oh, here we go...again.

"Teams that work hard, have connections, great facilities n support staff- education/trainers/ billets ect.., offer development and the "dream" will always be rewarded. You gotta sell FAs, not have them fall into your lap.
For some, it's the competition offered, for some it's the staff, for some it's the facilities, for some the teammates.
Up what you have to offer as an organization the FAs will follow. Wether it "seems" fair or not."


London fans need to start realizing no other organization is capable of keeping up. The London market is just too big and has no other hockey competition. Here is a list of the other markets in the OHL and their proportional population (in "London's")

London - 1
Kitchener - 0.6
Guelph - 0.33
Erie - 0.27
St.Catharines - 0.36
Hamilton - 1.42
Barrie - 0.37
Sudbury - 0.29
North Bay - 0.15
Kingston - 0.34
Oshawa - 0.41
Peterboro - 0.21
Flint - 0.28
Saginaw - 0.14
Owen Sound - 0.06
Windsor - 0.58
Sarnia - 0.2
Mississauga - 1.95
SSM - 0.21

Ottawa isn't listed, because they have to compete with the Sens. And I question if Mississauga should be on the list, because they have a unique case in terms of ethnic demographics, and also have to compete with Leafs (and Marlies). So really London's market carry the advantages that only Hamilton can match...and I'm sure they will in a few years.

I hear ppl say "well built your own arena that's like a mini-NHL"....that's not happening. Simply put no other teams (other than Hamilton) have the resources needed to entice these players...so in hopes of not wasting picks, most teams move on. Leaving London to dominate in the later rounds. It's not about number of scouts or team success, its 100% about the resources that can be offered to players (private school, specialized coaches, community perks) - a benefit 18 teams cannot compete with.

A great new rule would be EVERY draft pick is tied to a compensatory pick, if the player does not show up in 2 years (or 3 years, whatever). Just like in the 1st round. 200th overall pick doesn't show up after x-number of years? Then as long as they have stayed on your protected list, you get the 201st pick in the next subsequent draft. This would allow ALL 20 teams to pick the players they want without risk.

And yet most teams do not have issues with player reporting, and in fact, Windsor has benefitted the most from players not reporting to their draft team by acquiring those players in trades

 

[Rubbers29]

Oh, here we go...again.

"Teams that work hard, have connections, great facilities n support staff- education/trainers/ billets ect.., offer development and the "dream" will always be rewarded. You gotta sell FAs, not have them fall into your lap.
For some, it's the competition offered, for some it's the staff, for some it's the facilities, for some the teammates.
Up what you have to offer as an organization the FAs will follow. Wether it "seems" fair or not."


London fans need to start realizing no other organization is capable of keeping up. The London market is just too big and has no other hockey competition. Here is a list of the other markets in the OHL and their proportional population (in "London's")

London - 1
Kitchener - 0.6
Guelph - 0.33
Erie - 0.27
St.Catharines - 0.36
Hamilton - 1.42
Barrie - 0.37
Sudbury - 0.29
North Bay - 0.15
Kingston - 0.34
Oshawa - 0.41
Peterboro - 0.21
Flint - 0.28
Saginaw - 0.14
Owen Sound - 0.06
Windsor - 0.58
Sarnia - 0.2
Mississauga - 1.95
SSM - 0.21

Ottawa isn't listed, because they have to compete with the Sens. And I question if Mississauga should be on the list, because they have a unique case in terms of ethnic demographics, and also have to compete with Leafs (and Marlies). So really London's market carry the advantages that only Hamilton can match...and I'm sure they will in a few years.

I hear ppl say "well built your own arena that's like a mini-NHL"....that's not happening. Simply put no other teams (other than Hamilton) have the resources needed to entice these players...so in hopes of not wasting picks, most teams move on. Leaving London to dominate in the later rounds. It's not about number of scouts or team success, its 100% about the resources that can be offered to players (private school, specialized coaches, community perks) - a benefit 18 teams cannot compete with.

A great new rule would be EVERY draft pick is tied to a compensatory pick, if the player does not show up in 2 years (or 3 years, whatever). Just like in the 1st round. 200th overall pick doesn't show up after x-number of years? Then as long as they have stayed on your protected list, you get the 201st pick in the next subsequent draft. This would allow ALL 20 teams to pick the players they want without risk.

So fan support stops at the city limits?? I am sure if you ask anyone in Kitchener, their population is larger than London's as they passed us on Canada's biggest cities a couple years ago when you use a metropolitan population or does that not work to get your point across? Flint @ 28% of the population (closer to 87%) has one of the nicest facilities in league. The problem is the people. Population size does not dictate a crappy owner.

There are definitely some teams in the league at a decided disadvantage, but not 18.

As for your proposed rule change. Why not stop counting points and give all the teams trophies at the end of the year? That would probably be more fair . not to mention by 2020 the draft would be up to like 500 picks, that would be a mess!

London was a horrible team for a lot of years, we didn't complain that Ottawa, Peterborough and Oshawa had unfair advantages, we complained that WE had to get better.

 

[Sidekick]

So fan support stops at the city limits?? I am sure if you ask anyone in Kitchener, their population is larger than London's as they passed us on Canada's biggest cities a couple years ago when you use a metropolitan population or does that not work to get your point across? Flint @ 28% of the population (closer to 87%) has one of the nicest facilities in league. The problem is the people. Population size does not dictate a crappy owner.

There are definitely some teams in the league at a decided disadvantage, but not 18.

As for your proposed rule change. Why not stop counting points and give all the teams trophies at the end of the year? That would probably be more fair . not to mention by 2020 the draft would be up to like 500 picks, that would be a mess!

London was a horrible team for a lot of years, we didn't complain that Ottawa, Peterborough and Oshawa had unfair advantages, we complained that WE had to get better.

LOL.

Of course fan support doesn't end at the city limits. Would you like me to add St.Thomas and Middlesex county to London's total?

Your trophy comment just illustrates the Knights fans' elitism on this topic. So no, I don't want that - I just want an even playing field, or at least one that is as even as possible.

The draft wouldn't be that long, because teams would still have to have the player on their protected list, and they would still be free to trade a player's "rights."

 

[Otto]

LOL.

Of course fan support doesn't end at the city limits. Would you like me to add St.Thomas and Middlesex county to London's total?

Your trophy comment just illustrates the Knights fans' elitism on this topic. So no, I don't want that - I just want an even playing field, or at least one that is as even as possible.

The draft wouldn't be that long, because teams would still have to have the player on their protected list, and they would still be free to trade a player's "rights."

No reason why a team that is managed crappy should be on a level playing field. Let's use the current Flint situation as an example.

 

[Rubbers29]

LOL.

Of course fan support doesn't end at the city limits. Would you like me to add St.Thomas and Middlesex county to London's total?

Your trophy comment just illustrates the Knights fans' elitism on this topic. So no, I don't want that - I just want an even playing field, or at least one that is as even as possible.

The draft wouldn't be that long, because teams would still have to have the player on their protected list, and they would still be free to trade a player's "rights."

I used the stats Canada census map, which includes St. Thomas and Strathroy for the London area. Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge for Rangers. So pretty much where teams draw from.

I don't buy that Ottawa shouldn't be on the list as the draw from over 1 million people, I am sure that could cover both CHL and NHL.

So,
Ottawa 1 236 324
Hamilton 721 053
Mississauga (disregarding metro Toronto) 713 400
Kitchener 477 160
London 474 786
Flint 415 376
St. Catharines/Niagara 392 184
Oshawa 356 177
Windsor 319 246
Erie 279 966
Saginaw 196 542
Barrie 187 013
Sudbury 160 770
Kingston 159 561
Guelph 141 097
Peterborough 118 975
Sarnia 89 555
Sault Ste. Marie 79 800
North Bay 64 043
Owen Sound 32 092

How does that list make London stand out as a team with a major advantage??
On top of that Kelowna are the "London Knights" of the WHL. Population? 179 839

So I don't buy the population part.
Private schools? Owen sound has 6 with the smallest population centre.
Specialized coaches? Which one the owners kid or his nephew?
Community perks? Is it because we have 2 major malls??? That IS pretty sweet!

The defected player rule only comes into effect if you decide to trade your player rights, if you start giving teams comp picks for every player they protect that doesn't show up get ready for a gong show.

Teams are allowed to keep 50 players on their protected roster, they are allowed 30 carded players/ year leaving 20 players protected that don't play a game for you. waste 2-3 years of 1st/2nd and 3rd round players that you know have 0 chance of showing and boom you sweep the top picks for a few years but what happens when they don't show??


To touch on Petes1987's rule again, although I don't see the problem that you do, how about a tweak that may make it work.

Since in your scenario, no team is going to bother even trying to scout outside FA talent just to give it away, why not put a price on it. Say a 2nd rd. pick? If a team wants to bring in a FA from any region (not just outside Ont, Mich and Penn), teams below them in the standings are allowed to put a "claim" on the player. The player must agree to be willing to play for any team that claims them before signing as a free agent. The team claiming the player must give the team that was trying to sign the player their 2nd round pick in the following draft, if they don't have their own pick another teams pick can be used. If they don't have any 2nd round picks in the following draft, they are not eligible to make a claim. This would eliminate teams claiming players just so the top teams couldn't sign them and rewards the team that did the leg work on the player.

 

[Sidekick]

Geography arguments are my fav, reminds of the good ol' days thesis writing about 'commuter sheds.' I like that you went through and picked out all the CMA/CA's - hopefully you did it at work like I did.

1. "I don't buy that Ottawa shouldn't be on the list as the draw from over 1 million people, I am sure that could cover both CHL and NHL."

Maybe. But it's just your opinion, and frankly eastern Canadian cities rarely support any more than 'top-level' teams in their city. Example: Toronto and Montreal both struggle at the major junior level, and Ottawa used to be okay...not in recent years. It's a curious point, but it rings true at lower levels too. Only the Soo and Kingston have Tier 2 and major junior teams, and despite both those Jr.A teams being very, very good the last few years, neither gets much local interest. Halifax, Charlottetown, Sherbrooke, Peterborough, Oshawa, North Bay and Sudbury all used to (even in the last decade - but they couldn't make it)

2. Having lived in KW, I strongly disagree with you lumping the three together - especially Cambridge. Hespeler is closer to Guelph outright, and many other OHL fans head to Guelph because the Rangers season tickets are capped.

3. "On top of that Kelowna are the "London Knights" of the WHL. Population? 179 839."

Who said this? They might be, but the geography is different in western Canada - the cities are more isolated and have a stronger identity, and grass roots hockey is more culturally embedded than in Ontario. Interestingly, the Tier 2 thing holds true in western Canada too, with only Prince George (and Calgary) having both.

4. Free Blyth Academy tuition. Beats local high school x by a county mile.

All in all, this is a funny argument. Here I am, a passionate Knights hater fully admitting the Knights are the greatest. And I'm getting pushback from a Knights fan, saying - no, we're not.

Since the actual thread is about rule proposals, I'm still not sure what to make of your rebuttal. Teams will use it to their advantage? Why is that bad, if they can only attract good ol' GTA talent, why can't that be their strategy? Maybe lower the protected list to 40 then, I dunno.

Basically I just don't see how some improvement isn't feasible. I mean I don't think it would be used too rampantly; a team isn't going to pick 15 guys they know won't show. What would they do for players for two years?

 

[aresknights]

More than a few teams have private schools in their cities. London's Blythe being more recent than some of them. No one complained they had an advantage.

This league is cyclical, as pointed out by sidekick.

Lots of knights haters, they must be doing something right lol
. Funny thing is, if you followed league closely other teams have taken advantage of league rules as much as or more than London over ten years with little to no whining.

Why is that?

 

[NOA]

More than a few teams have private schools in their cities. London's Blythe being more recent than some of them. No one complained they had an advantage.

This league is cyclical, as pointed out by sidekick.

Lots of knights haters, they must be doing something right lol
. Funny thing is, if you followed league closely other teams have taken advantage of league rules as much as or more than London over ten years with little to no whining.

Why is that?

Erie has a huge private school that is top notch in everything including deep pockets in Cathedral Prep that is offered. Many choose the McDowell but the Catholic private option is the other available option for Otter players. Don't think many kids pick a city with school as a top thought. Parents might but it's down the list of concerns for kids. And I would guess every team has 2-3 options their players can pick from for school.

 

[knowescape]

Erie has a huge private school that is top notch in everything including deep pockets in Cathedral Prep that is offered. Many choose the McDowell but the Catholic private option is the other available option for Otter players. Don't think many kids pick a city with school as a top thought. Parents might but it's down the list of concerns for kids. And I would guess every team has 2-3 options their players can pick from for school.

Blythe is available online with periodic one on one. Niagara doesn't have Bythe locally but that was the option used to lure Boston back from the brink.