Prime Jonathan Toews or Current Auston Matthews

[Filthy Dangles]

More impactful center in your opinion?

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[Ctrain2k]

Toews rather easily.

 

[nobody]

Auston is a better offensive player than Jonathan Toews was ever in his career but Toews had a peak where he was playing stellar defensively while his team was winning cups. He has all the skills in the world and he could've easily been a top-flight offensive player but he knew that his contributions to his team success were going to cost him offensive numbers and while he still had a front and center role (pun intended) on their cup winning teams, he was responsible for doing a ton of under-appreciated dirty work that didn't always catch the eye of the casual fan. It was kind of hilarious reading for years how Toews was one of the most overrated players in the league on these same boards that is now clamoring about how overrated Matthews is. In reality, neither guys are overrated and are worth their weight in the hype/ praise they've been receiving. Hf just loves to hate the Leafs and was quite jealous of the success of the Hawks teams in those times.

Right now, I take prime JT19 over Auston because Auston hasn't won anything. If he can channel his inner Toews defensively and leadership wise, with the natural abilities and offensive talents he possesses, Auston Matthews would be the best player in the league by a decent margin. Scary part for the haters is that Auston last season showed us that he has it within him to play a consistent 200 foot game and he has the ability to be a rock-solid defensive forward who can put up 50 goals 100 points and still be a contender for the Selke. Last year he was the 13th best forward in defensive point shares. For as much hype as a guy like Elias Pettersson gets, Matthews actually puts up the same defensive numbers while destroying him offensively. Yet, one guy is up and coming star player while the other one gets consistently demolished in every HF poll because of "reasons".

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Prime Toews without blinking and I say that with all respect to Matthews who I think will be the better player when all is said and done.

One of the most underrated things on these boards over the last decade was the Bergeron-Toews-Kopitar trifecta simply blackholing the opposing top scorers while chugging along at 60-70 points themselves.

 

[JaegerDice]

Even as a huge Matthews fan, I'm not sure how anybody votes for him over prime Toews at this point.

Matthews has more raw offensive talent, but has yet to demonstrate as much raw on-ice impact as prime Toews.

If Matthews reaches his full potential, he will be a better player than Toews. He has yet to do so, however.

Frankly, if you swap current Matthews in for prime Toews on any of the Blackhawks cup winning teams, but particularly the last 2, I'm not sure they still win.

 

[bobholly39]

Yeah Matthews is more talented - but he hasn't done enough to outdo Toews' intangibles, as cliche as that sounds.

 

[JaegerDice]

Yeah Matthews is more talented - but he hasn't done enough to outdo Toews' intangibles, as cliche as that sounds.

The differences between prime Toews and current Matthews aren't intangible. They're quite measurable.

 

[Regal]

Toews was a similarly productive player 5v5 while being better defensively and in possession. Matthews is better on the PP. I would probably look to Toews for his greater 5v5 impact and hope to improve the PP in other ways, but Matthews is pretty close and I think he has a lot of similar elements to his game as Toews when he's fully engaged as he seemed to be under Keefe. He should be better than Toews but I'm not sure he's there quite yet.

 

[bobholly39]

The differences between prime Toews and current Matthews aren't intangible. They're quite measurable.

Without intangibles I'd take Matthews. I think he's more talented - especially offensively, and I'd have faith that he could produce more than Toews did at his best (and enough so to offset any defensive abilities).

I pick Toews here because of his leadership. This is coming from teammates/coaches and all kinds of feedback we heard. I know it's hard to measure or quantify - but if I had to pick between either player on my team I'd pick Toews for that reason.

 

[Sky04]

Biggest argument for Toews during his prime he was just winning everything, Cups, Olympics, to the point where it was hard to argue against him unless you had a winning pedigree as well or significantly better production, Matthews has neither.

 

[Gurglesons]

Toews quite easily. I don't think we've seen Matthews prime yet though.

 

[keglu]

Right now, I take prime JT19 over Auston because Auston hasn't won anything. If he can channel his inner Toews defensively and leadership wise, with the natural abilities and offensive talents he possesses, Auston Matthews would be the best player in the league by a decent margin.

He is 30+points behind Art Ross level in last 2 seasons. No realistic improvement on defence side can breach that especially to make him best "by decent margin". Dont think peak Datsyuk/Zetterberg were considered better than Malkin/Ovi and production gap was smaller.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Prime Toews without blinking and I say that with all respect to Matthews who I think will be the better player when all is said and done.

One of the most underrated things on these boards over the last decade was the Bergeron-Toews-Kopitar trifecta simply blackholing the opposing top scorers while chugging along at 60-70 points themselves.

People here around 2013-2015 were claiming that Toews was equal or better than Crosby.

Toews got massively overrated before he got underrated.

 

[Varan]

Prime Toews would have Matthews in handcuffs just like he has done to many other top-line players, while still being an effective offensive player.

Matthews is better offensively, but doesn't have the overall impact (not even close) that prime Toews had on both ends of the ice.

Toews was also amazing in the playoffs and insanely clutch, things Matthews is not.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Toews is a pure bred winner and has shown it consistently throughout his career. At his prime he was winning Stanley Cups, Olympic gold, a Selke and a Smythe. The answer here is Toews ainec

 

[JaegerDice]

People here around 2013-2015 were claiming that Toews was equal or better than Crosby.

Toews got massively overrated before he got underrated.

'People' is so vague as to be meaningless. Every fanbase has nutcases. Fans of opposing teams have claimed everybody from Ovechkin to Datsyuk, to Toews, to Giroux to be better than Crosby.

I have yet to see any Top 10, 50, or 100 list of NHL players from any reputable source list Toews ahead of Crosby.

 

[Regal]

'People' is so vague as to be meaningless. Every fanbase has nutcases. Fans of opposing teams have claimed everybody from Ovechkin to Datsyuk, to Toews, to Giroux to be better than Crosby.

I have yet to see any Top 10, 50, or 100 list of NHL players from any reputable source list Toews ahead of Crosby.

I certainly saw media guys have arguments on who they would take on their team with at least one arguing for Toews, though I wonder how much of that is to draw fan reaction. I've seen other bits where radio guys will intentionally try to argue both sides of a topic even if one doesn't agree with it. I think a lot of stuff is done to drum up interest, including a lot of the lists that come out (how much more interest did THN draw by putting MacKinnon first in their top 50 list than if they had put McDavid like the general consensus)

 

[BHD]

Toews is a pure bred winner and has shown it consistently throughout his career. At his prime he was winning Stanley Cups, Olympic gold, a Selke and a Smythe. The answer here is Toews ainec

Easy to be a winner when you play on stacked teams.

 

[wonton15]

This shouldn't be close. Toews.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Easy to be a winner when you play on stacked teams.

Yeah it's pretty easy to win three cups as a captain and an Olympic gold medal while winning individual awards as well

Surely Toews being on said teams was not a huge part of the reason they were "stacked" to begin with

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

People here around 2013-2015 were claiming that Toews was equal or better than Crosby.

Toews got massively overrated before he got underrated.

You're not disagreeing with my statement. You're just interjecting your personal grumpiness at Toews, which is only emphasizing my point that what he does/did got overlooked.

 

[BHD]

Yeah it's pretty easy to win three cups as a captain and an Olympic gold medal while winning individual awards as well

Surely Toews being on said teams was not a huge part of the reason they were "stacked" to begin with

Not saying he didn’t play a role, but... Keith, Crawford, Hossa, Kane, and a really good supporting cast.

And referencing a Team Canada, where he was like their 10-12th best forward. Neat...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Easy to be a winner when you play on stacked teams.

Being a 1C on those teams makes you the engine, not a passenger.

Plenty of stacked teams DON'T win. Toews is a winner.

 

[Varan]

Not saying he didn’t play a role, but... Keith, Crawford, Hossa, Kane, and a really good supporting cast.

And referencing a Team Canada, where he was like their 10-12th best forward. Neat...

Chicago drafted their main core. Their player development and player management is superb. You’re acting like they went out and traded for these players.

Besides, he’s the 1C on the team. He had a big role in why they were somehow “stacked”.

Yeah, he played like their best player easily in the Olympics. He is great, period.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Easy to be a winner when you play on stacked teams.

And yet Matthews, on a team with Marner, Tavares, Andersen, etc. can't win a 1st round series...