GDT: Predators at Calgary- Flaming Kittens - 7 PM SN360, FS-TN

lightstorm

Registered User
Oct 17, 2016
2,239
1,191
Trelivings inability to acquire a proper starting goalie might cost him a career as a GM.

Neal, 7 games in. What does this guy bring? Brouwer 2.0, another huge egg on Trelivings face.

A while ago I called Brodie our Klefbom. That might have been generous.
 

Deen

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
12,591
4,940
Trelivings inability to acquire a proper starting goalie might cost him a career as a GM.

Neal, 7 games in. What does this guy bring? Brouwer 2.0, another huge egg on Trelivings face.

A while ago I called Brodie our Klefbom. That might have been generous.

He will get a job. He is actually decent except his free agent signings.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,316
6,567
He will get a job. He is actually decent except his free agent signings.
He thought he temporary fixed the goaltending with smith. But Smith is an inconsistent psycho who likes to handle the puck more than stopping it

Somebody needs to tell him to stop the theateratic craps and focus on the consistency
 

Dack

Registered User
Jun 16, 2014
3,916
3,546
A quote from CPs owner Bingo

"The Flames could have better goaltendng, I won't argue that.

But they're giving up too much and that's the issue. If you're ranked 28th in the league in high danger chances against per 60 minutes you get in trouble. 16 of them last night, and last year's 15th ranked goaltender stopped 83% of the high danger chances. That's 12 giving up four, which is what he did.

The real issue is the above and the top line just getting zamboni'd every time they're on the ice. That's three of the last four games that they've been under the bus in almost every single category. Monahan and Gaudreau have to learn to play better outside the opposition's blueline. It's killing the team. You can't have 20+ minutes of fire drill."

This team right now is having the exact same issues that the Hartley teams had defensively. They're a lot better offensively and a much better team all around but we aren't going to get many good goaltending performances if we continue to let the other team walk get right to the slot. I'm pretty sure this is a system thing and likely a part of the reason why Carolina has had the worst goaltending in the entire league over the last few years.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
I honestly think Smith needs to be better, for sure. But we have no reason to think he won’t improve. Show me any goaltender that hasn’t had dips in his play over his career. Heck most have dips once or twice in a season. The elite ones though only have short one and tend be the most consistent over a year. We’re lucky that Smith is having his now, hopefully that means he’s primed for a good playoff run.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
A quote from CPs owner Bingo

"The Flames could have better goaltendng, I won't argue that.

But they're giving up too much and that's the issue. If you're ranked 28th in the league in high danger chances against per 60 minutes you get in trouble. 16 of them last night, and last year's 15th ranked goaltender stopped 83% of the high danger chances. That's 12 giving up four, which is what he did.

The real issue is the above and the top line just getting zamboni'd every time they're on the ice. That's three of the last four games that they've been under the bus in almost every single category. Monahan and Gaudreau have to learn to play better outside the opposition's blueline. It's killing the team. You can't have 20+ minutes of fire drill."

This team right now is having the exact same issues that the Hartley teams had defensively. They're a lot better offensively and a much better team all around but we aren't going to get many good goaltending performances if we continue to let the other team walk get right to the slot. I'm pretty sure this is a system thing and likely a part of the reason why Carolina has had the worst goaltending in the entire league over the last few years.

Monahan and Johnny definitely need to tighten up, my eyes back that up. But it is definitely a systems thing. If you watch Carolina last season, they were among the best at giving you very little. This will improve immensely over the next 15 games.
 

Dack

Registered User
Jun 16, 2014
3,916
3,546
Monahan and Johnny definitely need to tighten up, my eyes back that up. But it is definitely a systems thing. If you watch Carolina last season, they were among the best at giving you very little. This will improve immensely over the next 15 games.
The last two years they were around the 12ish spot which if we can improve to would be huge.


I looked at who's allowing what and I found almost all of our D have been really bad in this category with one sticking out as horrifically awful and one being good.

PlayerHDCA/60HDCF%
Stone19.836.7
Hanafin15.9547.5
Gio 14.4750.9
Brodie14.1247.2
Valimaki13.847.5
Andersson7.6157.1
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Notes

I have no idea how Andersson has done so well in this stat. He's allowing half as many as the rest of the defence.

Stone is 6th worst defenceman in the league in HDCA/60 but everyone aside from Andersson is bottom 80 or so.

For our forwards the Monahan line is the worst but the Backlund line has been uncharacteristically bad as well.

We had 22 giveaways last night and I think that is actually low because it lists Valimaki having 0 when at the very least between the pass before Neal's double minor and the 2nd goal he should have 1 if not 2.
 
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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,478
14,790
Victoria
A quote from CPs owner Bingo

"The Flames could have better goaltendng, I won't argue that.

But they're giving up too much and that's the issue. If you're ranked 28th in the league in high danger chances against per 60 minutes you get in trouble. 16 of them last night, and last year's 15th ranked goaltender stopped 83% of the high danger chances. That's 12 giving up four, which is what he did.

The real issue is the above and the top line just getting zamboni'd every time they're on the ice. That's three of the last four games that they've been under the bus in almost every single category. Monahan and Gaudreau have to learn to play better outside the opposition's blueline. It's killing the team. You can't have 20+ minutes of fire drill."

This team right now is having the exact same issues that the Hartley teams had defensively. They're a lot better offensively and a much better team all around but we aren't going to get many good goaltending performances if we continue to let the other team walk get right to the slot. I'm pretty sure this is a system thing and likely a part of the reason why Carolina has had the worst goaltending in the entire league over the last few years.

It depends which Hartley team you mean. The mail-it-in final year where the players tuned him out, yes, and those symptoms continued under Gulutzan. But the Hartley team that played Hartley's style was entirely the opposite. They didn't allow high-danger chances (and I mean real ones, where you expect the player to scored due to the situation while you're watching, not the "according to my spreadsheet, shots from that area of the ice have a 5% higher chance of going in") because they never committed guys forward unless they had an odd-man situation to attack. Teams would get tons of zone time against us but not force our goalies to make difficult saves. Right now, we aren't giving our goalie a ton of work, but the work we are giving him is as difficult as it gets.

And what Bingo is saying there is a little bit contradictory. Yes, the first line spends some shifts getting hemmed, but they also produced (by my count) the most high-quality chances of anyone on our team. As he says, the problem is high-danger chances against, not zone time against. It's not about whether the first line spends a shift in the offensive zone, it's about the big errors leading to easy goals, and those errors are happening in every single phase of the game. The first goal came off a mistake defending a dump-in. The second goal came off of zone time with the first line out. The third goal came off a failed clearance on the PK. The fourth goal came off of a bad pinch in the offensive zone.

The advanced stats say they had 16 high-danger chances, but that's probably not going to match up perfectly with the eye test due to the way that those algorithms are designed to assess the nature of chances. More realistically, I'd say that Smith made probably one "wow" save for every goal he allowed last night. Some may have been from zone time, some may have been during the end-game when we were pushing to tie, but overall they seem to be popping up everywhere throughout our game.
 
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Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
15,668
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We’ve had a tough schedule. Defense alwYs takes 15-20 games to settle in (every year the first 15-20 games average about 1.5-2 goals more than the season average, league wide)

We will figure it out. Smith will start to make a few more big saves here and there
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
We’ve had a tough schedule. Defense alwYs takes 15-20 games to settle in (every year the first 15-20 games average about 1.5-2 goals more than the season average, league wide)

We will figure it out. Smith will start to make a few more big saves here and there

It will be nice when Hamonic gets back to stabilize the back end. The affect of his injury on the stability and growth on the back end can't be under stated. With him out Hanafin has had rotating D partners, the PK has done well but it wears down Gio more than it should, and the physical presence Hamonic brings in front of the net.

Where it went wrong last night:
  • Gaudreau specifically needs to start chipping in when he is surrounded by 2 or three guys. I witnessed at least 4 turnovers at or near the blue-line because of bad decision making. (Johnny was creating some great opportunities with his speed and agility and I want to state he needs to do that but the times he is successful is very easy to see and the times he fails is also easy to see.)
  • The passing was out of sync last night with many passes in the skates or just out of the reach. Passes at times get a little long.
  • The chip and chase needs to be more determined and faster.
  • Monahan, Janko, Ryan, and Backlund got to quit trying to force the puck in front of the net when there is nothing there. There were at least 9 occasions I can recall directly where they were either behind the net, in the corner, or far outside deep in the zone where they "hail Mary'd" it into the center of the ice where the Nashville defenders simply picked up the puck and had easy break outs.
  • I think Rittich needs to be started more right now until Smith gets his game truly back.
  • The PP needs to be completely rebuilt. Move Johnny back on the wing and put Monahan on the point with Lindholm or Backs at center. I think a someone with better wrist shot and hockey smarts is needed to thread the shot opposite Gio.
  • Giveaways need to come down. 21 Last night!!! Backlund, Johnny, Mony all had 3 a piece. Brodie had 4 and Frolik had 2 (one the worst in our end).
I was very disappointed in last nights game. The writing was on the wall from the end of the first. The only player I can say was very good was Sam.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Glad we kept Bennett. No idea how we pay everyone Haha.

Rittich and Gillies in 19/20?

Moving Stone and Frolik by the deadline would go a long way. We have the depth to replace both.

  • Gaudreau specifically needs to start chipping in when he is surrounded by 2 or three guys. I witnessed at least 4 turnovers at or near the blue-line because of bad decision making. (Johnny was creating some great opportunities with his speed and agility and I want to state he needs to do that but the times he is successful is very easy to see and the times he fails is also easy to see.
To chip, you need a retriever. Lindholm and Monahan have not shown great retrieval skills, at least not like Ferland did. Do you have the balls to separate Gaudreau from Monahan since they don't have the safety blanket of an explosive skating 220lb rw?
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
9,343
Calgary
Moving Stone and Frolik by the deadline would go a long way. We have the depth to replace both.

I’m totally fine to Frolik right now, I still think he’s quite good but I’d like to get some assets for him. As you said, we can replace him internally.

As for Stone, I’d move him depending on the offer. It’s clear that Rasmus is much better, but I like the insurance he provides us. If someone offered us a 2nd rounder or something like Armia, I’d move him all day.
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
Moving Stone and Frolik by the deadline would go a long way. We have the depth to replace both.

To chip, you need a retriever. Lindholm and Monahan have not shown great retrieval skills, at least not like Ferland did. Do you have the balls to separate Gaudreau from Monahan since they don't have the safety blanket of an explosive skating 220lb rw?

This is more about making the safe play than turning it over at the blue-line and getting caught defensively. It is all about not shooting yourself in the foot.

I would try Gaudreau on the third line and push Chucky up to the first line with Bennett playing with Backlund and Frolik. Gaudreau random center and Neal might kick start Neals game and take a little pressure of Johnny's defensive lapses.

But then I think Chucky is the better left winger anyways so I am biased.
 

Mobiandi

Registered User
Jan 17, 2015
21,028
17,454
Backlund needs to start putting away his chances. That one he had with a few minutes leftin the 3rd was such a glorious opportunity but Saros ended making such a routine stop in the end
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
I’m totally fine to Frolik right now, I still think he’s quite good but I’d like to get some assets for him. As you said, we can replace him internally.

As for Stone, I’d move him depending on the offer. It’s clear that Rasmus is much better, but I like the insurance he provides us. If someone offered us a 2nd rounder or something like Armia, I’d move him all day.

You do not pay 3.5 mil a year for insurance. I don't dislike Stone but he is looking like the 7th best dman on this roster at best and he is paid almost the same as the 4th best. If you can move him you move him before he becomes a declining asset. I thought he played fine yesterday but that was not a level of play that Prout/Kylington are incapable of. All teams have injuries, they weather them within a budget. In 2014-15 we made the playoffs with Rafael Diaz playing a regular shift.
 
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OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
This is more about making the safe play than turning it over at the blue-line and getting caught defensively. It is all about not shooting yourself in the foot.

Top line players do not make the safe play. Ask Craig Conroy how he had to stop making the safe play when he was with Iginla. That also applies to defensemen - you need to make regular passes through the middle as a top pair dman as counter-intuitive as that sounds.

You want Johnny to chip if there is a >50% chance to retrieve the puck. Dumping and the peeling off for a line change is not an option.
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
Top line players do not make the safe play. Ask Craig Conroy how he had to stop making the safe play when he was with Iginla.

You want Johnny to chip if there is a >50% chance to retrieve the puck. Dumping and the peeling off for a line change is not an option.
Um then why do you bring up Toews as a reference to Sam??? Toews makes the smart play. FYI Bennett is not in the same ballpark as Toews ... Maybe Toews / Daigle cross but certainly no Toews.

Even Ovie and Crosby learned this through time. Why would you change. You pressure their D and hope for a turnover... Something Johnny, Mony and Lindholm are good at.

Sometimes OKG I wonder how you aren't 2 different people. Much of the stuff you say is good but once you get the rose tinted glasses on for a player you go against everything you say.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
7,107
2022 Cup to Calgary
Um then why do you bring up Toews as a reference to Sam??? Toews makes the smart play. FYI Bennett is not in the same ballpark as Toews ... Maybe Toews / Daigle cross but certainly no Toews.

Even Ovie and Crosby learned this through time. Why would you change. You pressure their D and hope for a turnover... Something Johnny, Mony and Lindholm are good at.

Sometimes OKG I wonder how you aren't 2 different people. Much of the stuff you say is good but once you get the rose tinted glasses on for a player you go against everything you say.

Toews in his prime, like Bennett is a better individual puck retriever than our top line combined. He also played with Hossa who would be the best puck retriever on our entire team by a country mile, when he wasn't using his 210+lb frame to skate the puck through traffic with agility.

Likewise Ovechkin and Crosby. They make the safe play because they afe individual freak monsters.

Gaudreau is not. He doesn't have the size (obviously) or elite speed (a la Byron) to be. That is why Ferland worked so well with him. He would toss the puck into the corner, Ferland retrieves it against multiple bodies, and twenty seconds later Monahan has a goal in the slot.

Monahan is not. He is not remotely a player who threaten to play chip and chase. That is also why our power play sucks at zone entries. He's not particularly great at carrying the puck either but he's far better at that alongside a primary puck handler Gaudreau than he is at creating havoc on the forecheck. That's why he was a huge beneficiary of Ferland and why he hasn't really clicked with (the otherwise excellent) Lindholm.

Lindholm has some PP points and some chemistry with Gaudreau, but he has clicked more with Backlund, Bennett, etc in far less time outside of the PP. He is a good player and forechecker. But he is not dynamic like Ferland and if Gaudreau dumps the puck he isn't quite enough to support from the opposite wing. He is a huge upgrade on guys like Hudler, Neal, and Brouwer though.

You are confusing the choice to make the safe play with the choice to make the successful play.

Top lines have to make the successful play and for that to work they will need a Toews/Crosby like dominant forechecking center or a Hossa/Ferland like speedy massive winger. Gaudreau is not that, even if he is undoubtably a top line player. The Sedins needed Burrows. Draisaitl needed Hall or McDavid. Gaudreau needs either Ferland or an actual number one center if you want him to make the safe play because otherwise it is not the successful play. He makes the play that has the best chance of success and sometimes it backfires because plan B is plan F given the makeup of his line.

As for Tkachuk, he is an amazing player but he too lacks speed and is the beneficiary of the abilities of Backlund, Frolik, and Czarnik. Putting him on a regulaf line with Monahan and without Gaudreau won't help him or Monahan, they would be a cinch to defend.
 
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CamPopplestone

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
2,515
2,896
I am not a big Bennett fan but I like the Neal/Bennett Combo. Good chances being created by them. I'd love Dube to centre it, but I think his offensive game needs a bit more work before he is ready for that consistently.

The line looked better once Ryan was on it over Jankowski. Ryan isn't amazing, but he is solid enough, and good enough in the face off dot to get those two the puck more
 

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