Speculation: Possible 2017 Off Season moves

[izlez]

Did you have an actual counter argument, or did you think an ad hom attack on the author would actually be persuasive?

Well, I'd say the entire premise of the veteran captain and assistant captain having a strong voice in the locker room as being some major earth-shattering conspiracy is pretty ridiculous.

I'd follow that up with his whining and crying about not playing the 'kids' that he wanted as some conspiracy, while those players have gone on to do be waived and/or benched by other teams goes on to show that his "unnamed sources" (my favorite thing in sports media) really didn't have much credibility

 

[njx9]

Well, I'd say the entire premise of the veteran captain and assistant captain having a strong voice in the locker room as being some major earth-shattering conspiracy is pretty ridiculous.

A "strong voice" and "overruling the coach as soon as he leaves the locker room" are not really comparable at all.

I'd follow that up with his whining and crying about not playing the 'kids' that he wanted as some conspiracy, while those players have gone on to do be waived and/or benched by other teams goes on to show that his "unnamed sources" (my favorite thing in sports media) really didn't have much credibility

I didn't realize Mantha has been waived or benched by other teams. Or AA. Or XO. I do appreciate the 'crying and whining' silliness though; if you can't actually argue against a specific position, just mis-characterize it!

Lastly, he quite clearly 'names' his source as Abdelkader. Did you even read the article?

 

[Mister Ed]

the guy who had the "swedish mafia" story is releasing an article tonight that will mention which current player was the source for the info. i'm guessing it's glendening due to the fact that one of the writers of the blog was jack johnson's (the NHL defenseman) best man at his wedding and johnson and glendening both went to uofm (although not at the same time).

I am not going to disclose the player’s name but I will say this. He is in the midst of a ridiculous seven-year, $30 million contract. His numbers predictably plummeted this year with Datsyuk in Russia.

It was Abdelkader.

 

[izlez]

A "strong voice" and "overruling the coach as soon as he leaves the locker room" are not really comparable at all.



I didn't realize Mantha has been waived or benched by other teams. Or AA. Or XO. I do appreciate the 'crying and whining' silliness though; if you can't actually argue against a specific position, just mis-characterize it!

Lastly, he quite clearly 'names' his source as Abdelkader. Did you even read the article?

He talks about multiple sources many times....and he waited a year to mention who one of them was.

"Multiple sources have told the DSR that in recent weeks Blashill had made the decision to bench Ericsson and the only reason it never occurred is because Zetterberg intervened on Swedish Willie Huber’s behalf"

So he apparently has multiple sources from directly in the locker room...but doesn't name any for a year, and then only names one. Sports blogs are super serious. Must protect sources.

He heard from a guy who (apparently) heard from Abdelkader that Zetterberg was a strong voice helping to lead a team with a rookie coach, then he cried about Teemu Pulkkinen and Tomas Jurco not playing. If you can't identify that as a garbage "article", I don't know how to help you

 

[izlez]

Lastly, he quite clearly 'names' his source as Abdelkader. Did you even read the article?

And just to be clear, he states his source (again..he seems to have forgot that he had multiple) as "a former writer and contributor to this website" who heard from "a friend of (Justin Abdelkader)" who heard from Justin Abdelkader.
JOURNALISM.

At which point, there are no direct quotes from Justin Abdelkader, and an article that is extremely vague on what he claims to have said. HOW exactly did Zetterberg contradict Blashill? Did Abdelkader say that Ericsson should 100% be benched. Was Abdelkader screaming for Teemu Pulkinnen to play?

 

[njx9]

He talks about multiple sources many times....and he waited a year to mention who one of them was.

Ah, well, if he only named one, then it's clearly all made up BS, right?

"Multiple sources have told the DSR that in recent weeks Blashill had made the decision to bench Ericsson and the only reason it never occurred is because Zetterberg intervened on Swedish Willie Huber’s behalf"

So he apparently has multiple sources from directly in the locker room...but doesn't name any for a year, and then only names one. Sports blogs are super serious. Must protect sources.

So, what's your argument? That because this isn't world diplomacy, or a nuclear arms negotiation source confidentiality isn't important? Or that his sources don't think there might be retribution when they talk about in-locker room stuff outside of the locker room? That he should immediately name every single source he has, just to satisfy your personal voyeurism, no matter how much that might impact his ability to use those sources in the future? Or that, because he only named one source, he might as well have not named any, and his one named source is irrelevant, in spite of, you know, actually being in the locker room throughout?

He heard from a guy who (apparently) heard from Abdelkader that Zetterberg was a strong voice helping to lead a team with a rookie coach, then he cried about Teemu Pulkkinen and Tomas Jurco not playing. If you can't identify that as a garbage "article", I don't know how to help you

Ah, more "crying" theatrics, and more deliberately dishonest mis-characterization of what was actually said. It's clear you're not interested in an actual discussion, not that that's a particularly new thing.

And just to be clear, he states his source (again..he seems to have forgot that he had multiple) as "a former writer and contributor to this website" who heard from "a friend of (Justin Abdelkader)" who heard from Justin Abdelkader.
JOURNALISM.

At which point, there are no direct quotes from Justin Abdelkader, and an article that is extremely vague on what he claims to have said. HOW exactly did Zetterberg contradict Blashill? Did Abdelkader say that Ericsson should 100% be benched. Was Abdelkader screaming for Teemu Pulkinnen to play?

You know, there's the button that says "edit" under a post. It's helpful when you use it, instead of furiously hitting new post every time you think of something else you want to restate for the umpteenth time without saying anything new.

 

[izlez]

The mystery of why Holland called up forward Joakim Andersson from Grand Rapids in the final days of the regular season and actually received ice time over teammates like Tomas Jurco, Anthony Mantha and Teemu Pulkkinen shouldn’t be much of a riddle at all.

I have multiple sources that looked into this riddle. They report back that Tomas Jurco and Teemu Pulkkinen are not good at hockey and that people withing the organization thought Joakim Andersson helped the team win more than Anthony Mantha. Those same sources confirm that Justin Abdelkader is using his "North American Mafia" influance to push for players like Anthony Mantha when management wants players like Joakim Anderson.

There is no logical reason on God’s green earth why Ericsson should have been in the lineup over Smith this season. Not metrics. Not the eye-test. NOTHING.

My sources also confirm that after the 2016-2017 season, Nick Jensen, Ryan Sproul, Xavier Ouellett, Brendan Smith, and Alexei Marchnko did in fact NOT help to improve the team despite some blogger's opinions. Those sources also state that their eye test confirms that Jonathan Ericsson is 10Xs better than Brendan Smith

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Well that "article" was an interesting read.

Very professional.

 

[Winger98]

Well that "article" was an interesting read.

Very professional.

The culmination of 14 years of blogging excellence.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Ah, well, if he only named one, then it's clearly all made up BS, right?



So, what's your argument? That because this isn't world diplomacy, or a nuclear arms negotiation source confidentiality isn't important? Or that his sources don't think there might be retribution when they talk about in-locker room stuff outside of the locker room? That he should immediately name every single source he has, just to satisfy your personal voyeurism, no matter how much that might impact his ability to use those sources in the future? Or that, because he only named one source, he might as well have not named any, and his one named source is irrelevant, in spite of, you know, actually being in the locker room throughout?



Ah, more "crying" theatrics, and more deliberately dishonest mis-characterization of what was actually said. It's clear you're not interested in an actual discussion, not that that's a particularly new thing.



You know, there's the button that says "edit" under a post. It's helpful when you use it, instead of furiously hitting new post every time you think of something else you want to restate for the umpteenth time without saying anything new.

That article is a joke. Specifically about the Swedish Mafia stuff.

His source is a person who spoke to a friend of Justin Abdelkader. You don't see the problem with taking that journalistic source with about a truckload of salt?

And it's clearly all made up BS because there are literal justifications for the moves they made even if you don't agree with that.

1) Ericsson over other D. Ericsson is the biggest D on the roster and when he gets his head of his ass, he can be a very good physical force. He's also being paid 4.25M. The Wings weren't going to bury him in the minors and eat 3.35M so they can play Ryan Sproul or Xaiver Ouellet in 2014-2016. Who was being held down by him? Brendan Smith who had major inconsistency and hockey IQ questions? Any of our dime-a-dozen D prospects who currently comprise the worst defense we've had in about 40 years?

2) Andersson over Mantha for the playoffs.

Andersson is a PK'ing player who is center capable. Even if he's 50% on FOs, that's a damn sight better than what Mantha would provide. Mantha had issues about work ethic and defensive play THIS year when he was good. What the hell would he have provided you defensively in a year where he was lagging behind?

And if you took Mantha over Andersson, you'd be playing Anthony Mantha on the Glenny & Miller fourth line and he wouldn't have provided any offense. You weren't going to move Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin, etc. off the top lines, so Mantha would be playing with trash. You have to consider roles of players when *****ing about a guy not being on the roster. Mantha should be in a top 6 role to utilize his skills. He needs to beat those guys, not the bottom of the roster guys, for playing time.

It is embarrassing that some people want there to be issues so badly that when a ridiculous claim like this pops up that it isn't immediately dismissed as the garbage it is.

 

[Winger98]

And if you took Mantha over Andersson, you'd be playing Anthony Mantha on the Glenny & Miller fourth line and he wouldn't have provided any offense. You weren't going to move Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin, etc. off the top lines, so Mantha would be playing with trash. You have to consider roles of players when *****ing about a guy not being on the roster. Mantha should be in a top 6 role to utilize his skills. He needs to beat those guys, not the bottom of the roster guys, for playing time.

what's funny is that if we were moving a guy out of the top9 to make room for mantha it would be, well, Abdelkader.

 

[njx9]

That article is a joke. Specifically about the Swedish Mafia stuff.

His source is a person who spoke to a friend of Justin Abdelkader. You don't see the problem with taking that journalistic source with about a truckload of salt?

I never said nor suggested that. I disagreed with both the assertion that his source was unnamed, or that not naming every source was somehow damning.

And it's clearly all made up BS because there are literal justifications for the moves they made even if you don't agree with that.

1) Ericsson over other D. Ericsson is the biggest D on the roster and when he gets his head of his ass, he can be a very good physical force. He's also being paid 4.25M. The Wings weren't going to bury him in the minors and eat 3.35M so they can play Ryan Sproul or Xaiver Ouellet in 2014-2016. Who was being held down by him? Brendan Smith who had major inconsistency and hockey IQ questions? Any of our dime-a-dozen D prospects who currently comprise the worst defense we've had in about 40 years?

2) Andersson over Mantha for the playoffs.

Andersson is a PK'ing player who is center capable. Even if he's 50% on FOs, that's a damn sight better than what Mantha would provide. Mantha had issues about work ethic and defensive play THIS year when he was good. What the hell would he have provided you defensively in a year where he was lagging behind?

And if you took Mantha over Andersson, you'd be playing Anthony Mantha on the Glenny & Miller fourth line and he wouldn't have provided any offense. You weren't going to move Tatar, Nyquist, Larkin, etc. off the top lines, so Mantha would be playing with trash. You have to consider roles of players when *****ing about a guy not being on the roster. Mantha should be in a top 6 role to utilize his skills. He needs to beat those guys, not the bottom of the roster guys, for playing time.

It is embarrassing that some people want there to be issues so badly that when a ridiculous claim like this pops up that it isn't immediately dismissed as the garbage it is.

And all I wanted was an actual rebuttal, instead of 'the author cries and whines about ...' or 'it's obviously crap because i said so'. Andersson over Mantha always 'made sense', in terms of position alone. I think our over-prioritization of defensive "ability" is moronic, but there's clear evidence that it occurs. That said, I think there's a larger point with E, and it's the same thing you saw with guys like Sheahan this year: some players will never, ever be benched or scratched, no matter how poorly they play. Ericsson hasn't played physically in years (if you want to chalk it up to injuries, I wouldn't argue), and while he was good in his role this year, there was absolutely no reason for him to have been stapled to the top pair for as long as he was. I don't necessarily think that has anything to do with a Swedish mafia, but it certainly wasn't good personnel management. *shrug*

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I think we all agree it was bad management. The problem is you are stepping up to bat for a blog that has a very unique (translation: unhinged) writing style and incredible accusations without much corroboration from anyone actually inside the locker room (unless the sources from Moss are completely legitimate and their testimony is factual).

I mean, the entire concept is batty to begin with (Zetterberg is coach and somehow decides when Ericsson gets to play and how many shifts he gets, as if he doesn't have his own job out there as a player).

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I never said nor suggested that. I disagreed with both the assertion that his source was unnamed, or that not naming every source was somehow damning.



And all I wanted was an actual rebuttal, instead of 'the author cries and whines about ...' or 'it's obviously crap because i said so'. Andersson over Mantha always 'made sense', in terms of position alone. I think our over-prioritization of defensive "ability" is moronic, but there's clear evidence that it occurs. That said, I think there's a larger point with E, and it's the same thing you saw with guys like Sheahan this year: some players will never, ever be benched or scratched, no matter how poorly they play. Ericsson hasn't played physically in years (if you want to chalk it up to injuries, I wouldn't argue), and while he was good in his role this year, there was absolutely no reason for him to have been stapled to the top pair for as long as he was. I don't necessarily think that has anything to do with a Swedish mafia, but it certainly wasn't good personnel management. *shrug*

They do overdo it a little... but they literally always have. Even when we were winning Cups, we gave big roles to guys like Brent Gilchrist or Boyd Devereaux. The Wings have always, since the ouster of Bryan Murray, favored a strong defensive game that builds offense over a high powered offense. Because they had unlimited money and were fortunate with some super elite talent, they had a high powered offense even though they sold out defensively.

Hell, you want to see proof of this? Coffey and Primeau for Shanahan. They traded away a hall of fame offensive defenseman largely due to his lackadaisical defensive play. Yzerman sold out defensively for the whole second half of his career. They'd put arguably their most talented center back on the blueline (Fedorov).

That's why it kinda irks me when people hop on "RAWR why is AA benched for lazy defensive play?" That is how the team has operated for almost the whole of the 25 year playoff streak. You commit to a 200 ft game and work your ass off. A system like that will tend to reward the hard worker bee who does what he's asked and overly penalize the talented but enigmatic.

 

[Pavels Dog]

And just to be clear, he states his source (again..he seems to have forgot that he had multiple) as "a former writer and contributor to this website" who heard from "a friend of (Justin Abdelkader)" who heard from Justin Abdelkader.
JOURNALISM.

The best sources.

"Swedish mafia" is among the most ridiculous conspiracy theories out there. These guys even refuse to speak swedish with eachother to make sure the lockerroom isn't divided.

 

[obey86]

I think we all agree it was bad management. The problem is you are stepping up to bat for a blog that has a very unique (translation: unhinged) writing style and incredible accusations without much corroboration from anyone actually inside the locker room (unless the sources from Moss are completely legitimate and their testimony is factual).

I mean, the entire concept is batty to begin with (Zetterberg is coach and somehow decides when Ericsson gets to play and how many shifts he gets, as if he doesn't have his own job out there as a player).

To be fair, it's a known fact that one of the contributors to the blog was the best man in Jack Johnson's wedding....and that's who the info supposedly came from.

People can rip on this blog all they want...sad thing is, they've broken more big local sports stories in the past 10 years than the entire Detroit sports media combined. Jeff Moss is a bit looney, but he currently has his own weekly segment on a Lansing sports talk radio show and used to co-host a show on 1130 WFDN, and has a history of being correct on big news stories well before anyone else in the media has it. I mean, Moss was in an in person baseball draft for a fantasy league with Jose Canseco a few years back, got a guy from the Howard Stern show to do a couple phone pranks for him. I have no idea how this guy knows people, but he does.

 

[newfy]

To be fair, it's a known fact that one of the contributors to the blog was the best man in Jack Johnson's wedding....and that's who the info supposedly came from.

People can rip on this blog all they want...sad thing is, they've broken more big local sports stories in the past 10 years than the entire Detroit sports media combined. Jeff Moss is a bit looney, but he currently has his own weekly segment on a Lansing sports talk radio show and used to co-host a show on 1130 WFDN, and has a history of being correct on big news stories well before anyone else in the media has it. I mean, the guy with in an in person baseball fantasy league with Joe Canseco a few years back, got a guy from the Howard Stern show to do a couple phone pranks for him. I have no idea how this guy knows people, but he does.

Yep. I'm by no means an insider but I've heard the Swedish mafia stuff from a guy who knows quite a bit of inside info about the wings. People can act like its completely impossible that that would happen but why the hell else would Ericcson be glued to the top pair for so long? A blogger with sources writes about it, common sense says Ericcosn shouldnt be playing there unless theres more to it and I've been told by someone about it.

You dont have to believe any of it, but mocking the fact that its possible is dumb and hilarious to read really

 

[Bench]

Well that "article" was an interesting read.

Very professional.

Pretty awful, isn't it? Needlessly venomous and petty.

That said, I do believe Zetterberg could outrank Blashill in the room. That wouldn't be all that strange. My only feeling is if that's true, I would have removed Blashill and replaced him with a no nonsense veteran coach ASAP. But of course just because something makes sense and seems reasonable doesn't mean it's true. The caustic nature of the article doesn't lend much to the way of professionalism and subsequently the credibility.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yep. I'm by no means an insider but I've heard the Swedish mafia stuff from a guy who knows quite a bit of inside info about the wings. People can act like its completely impossible that that would happen but why the hell else would Ericcson be glued to the top pair for so long? A blogger with sources writes about it, common sense says Ericcosn shouldnt be playing there unless theres more to it and I've been told by someone about it.

You dont have to believe any of it, but mocking the fact that its possible is dumb and hilarious to read really

A blogger who essentially has a story from a friend of a friend of a friend. Nothing substantial to actually back it up. If Abby was actively complaining about the Swedish Mafia and it was a thing that actually exists, there would be more evidence than "Jonathan Ericsson was on the top pairing longer than he should have been" or the Joakim Andersson stuff.

1) Babcock liked Ericsson, therefore he played him a bunch. Blashill would err towards a Babcock move given the choice.

2) You had DDK-Quincey become a pretty solid middle pairing. So they were there. Kronwall hadn't fallen off yet, so he's top pairing. Your main choices are Brendan Smith, who has his own issues (and whose game is very similar to Kronwall's in that he wants the puck to start the rush.), Jonathan Ericsson, and a rotating array of Alexey Marchenko, Brian Lashoff, Mike Commodore, Marek Zidlicky, and a bunch of other dime-a-dozen prospects.

No, playing Jonathan Ericsson on the top pairing was not an optimal decision, but there are plenty of reasons why you wouldn't want Smith there. Could they have tried Quincey? Sure. They didn't. DDK is showing he's not a capable top pairing guy.

And I mean, no team has ever put a bunch of stock in a guy that didn't deserve it, right? No Americans or Canadians ever played above their station or got any special treatment in Detroit. No, sir. It's just those damned Swedes.

To finish, if there was anything besides "Jonathan Ericsson was on the top pairing but he sucks" and some cryptic nonsense from "people associated with people", I would give it a second thought.

 

[Winger98]

Yep. I'm by no means an insider but I've heard the Swedish mafia stuff from a guy who knows quite a bit of inside info about the wings. People can act like its completely impossible that that would happen but why the hell else would Ericcson be glued to the top pair for so long? A blogger with sources writes about it, common sense says Ericcosn shouldnt be playing there unless theres more to it and I've been told by someone about it.

You dont have to believe any of it, but mocking the fact that its possible is dumb and hilarious to read really

eh, a fair bit of the guy being mocked is that he writes like a pissy high schooler with stronger opinions than his supporting material warrants. As Bench says, it's not inconceivable that Z holds more sway in the locker room than the coach. But is Z essentially running the team behind Blashill's back? Personally, I doubt it.

As TSweeney puts forth, there are more likely reasons for Ericsson being played as much as he is and for Andersson to be the guy the team called up for a playoff run. I've wanted to see the Wings go with kids a bit more as much as pretty much anyone, but I can't honestly say any of them are/were better options than Ericsson if our goal was winning in the here and now.

Also, have to find it a bit funny if Abdelkader is whining about preferential treatment. I mean, how fortunate was he to be stapled to Datsyuk's line come hell or high water? The Wings force feeding him top minutes essentially wrote his pay check for the next seven years.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Are you really surprised that stuff about internal discontent and divisions would slowly trickle out now that the Wings are no longer a good team and everyone's starting to realize that ship is taking water pretty badly.

People overlook petty jealousies, rivalries, personality conflicts and so forth as long as the going is good and there's faith in a shared mission. I think everyone by now even in that locker room has seen enough to know that the Wings era of success is entirely over.

 

[Ezekial]

And if you took Mantha over Andersson, you'd be playing Anthony Mantha on the Glenny & Miller fourth line and he wouldn't have provided any offense.

Miller was injured last season from January 10th, 12 days before Andersson was sent down initially. If you don't remember Andersson centered AA and Tatar at one point during that series(with a nice setup by Andy for AA's goal), but they wanted a veteran PKer I'm guessing.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Considering how quickly stuff comes out with regards to other teams, I have a hard time seeing the team keeping something this dysfunctional staying between players and internal staff.

Remember, the claim is that Zetterberg literally decided the game plans and who played when. That is way more than the team ignoring the coach and Zetterberg being actively against him.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Considering how quickly stuff comes out with regards to other teams, I have a hard time seeing the team keeping something this dysfunctional staying between players and internal staff.

Remember, the claim is that Zetterberg literally decided the game plans and who played when. That is way more than the team ignoring the coach and Zetterberg being actively against him.

It's certainly possible that there's truth to the heart of the story but that is a lot less blatant and then the story simply gets blown up more and more every time someone recounts it.

Reduced to "Abdelkader thinks the Swedes form a clique and get special favors as a result of their influence and he's sick of it" it doesn't sound too difficult to believe. Of course, that doesn't mean Abdelkader is in the right on that question either, it would just mean that's his view.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It's certainly possible that there's truth to the heart of the story but that is a lot less blatant and then the story simply gets blown up more and more every time someone recounts it.

Reduced to "Abdelkader thinks the Swedes form a clique and get special favors as a result of their influence and he's sick of it" it doesn't sound too difficult to believe. Of course, that doesn't mean Abdelkader is in the right on that question either, it would just mean that's his view.

I buy that, just not the narrative this Moss guy is peddling.