Yikes that would be a franchise killing trade as no chance it would be for a top pairing under 23 dman who can log 25mins and routinely put up 40plus pts a season (that is what we need)
Speculation: Possible 2017 Off Season moves
- Thread starter Dead Thing Fan
- Start date
Yikes that would be a franchise killing trade as no chance it would be for a top pairing under 23 dman who can log 25mins and routinely put up 40plus pts a season (that is what we need)
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
It could be for a dman that can become that. That is how these trades are made- a potential 1st line winger + 1st for a potential top pairing dman. Think Pesce+ or Hanifin from the Canes, or Trouba from the Jets.
Also, a defenseman under 23 that is already routinely putting up 40+ pts and playing 25min a night isn't going anywhere. Ristolainen, Hamilton, and maybe Werenski if he can repeat this year are the only ones that immediately come to mind.
Larkin plus 8th overall for hannifin would ruin this franchise for a decade
He is not good enough
ShelbyZ
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2015
- 3,816
- 2,578
It seems like the Canes and Jets are getting tossed around a lot in talks about potentially moving young Dmen. The other similarity is that they could both use a change in goal.
I feel like I'd be OK giving up Mrazek in a potential deal for a Trouba/Hanifin/etc.... Should I put my flame suit on?
I feel like I'd be OK giving up Mrazek in a potential deal for a Trouba/Hanifin/etc.... Should I put my flame suit on?
Trouba is a legitimate #1 at this point, he had the type of season that answered all the questions. Dude is a stud and not only is Mrazek not a starting point, we really don't have a legitimate starting point. Same to a lesser extent for Hanifin, we don't have the assets, I suspect Hanifin is going to do what Trouba did this year next season. Carolina's blue line makes me sad to be a Wings fan.
Mrazek, especially right now, isn't a great starting point to lock down the player we need on our blue line.
I hope they do very little- maybe try to trade away guys like Green for draft picks. If they can somehow deal away Abdelkader, Helm, Ericsson, etc. then that would be great too.
They are terrible and have no chance of being good next year. Better to tank rather than saddle themselves with even more awful long term deals from free agency. If they just bring back the same team as this year, they'll still be a bottom 5 team so that works too. They just need to load up on high end draft picks the next few years and hope it works out and guys like Mantha, AA and Larkin, etc. keep growing and getting better.
They are terrible and have no chance of being good next year. Better to tank rather than saddle themselves with even more awful long term deals from free agency. If they just bring back the same team as this year, they'll still be a bottom 5 team so that works too. They just need to load up on high end draft picks the next few years and hope it works out and guys like Mantha, AA and Larkin, etc. keep growing and getting better.
Perfect Human
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2014
- 1,540
- 1,027
He isn't going to move his first top 10 draft pick since Marty Lapointe. That's not going to happen.
I mean, I know his approval rating is about 2% here right now... it just bothers me when people make up crap like it's going to happen because "oh, that's such a Holland thing to do." He hasn't had a top ten pick since Marty Lapointe. Since 1991. But yeah, he's going to move it for Alec Martinez.
Ken Holland picked Lapointe?
I thought he was the GM starting in 1997(?)
Boomhower
Registered User
Defence;
1)Nyquist and Jensen to Buffalo for Bogosian
2)Sign Karl Alzner.
3)Buy out Ericsson (reduces hit to 1.6M).
Goalie;
1)Trade Howard (50% retained) for a mid rounder (dude is still 2.6M good)
Forward;
1)Trade Glendening to Leafs for whatever they would give.
2)Nyquist out (see Defense trade)
3) Vegas takes Sheahan (??)
4) Resign Vanek on the Cheap. Nobody wanted him at trade deadline. Dude played well here and we need a warm body. Can always trade at deadline again.
5)Draft Mittelstadt .
Tatar - Nielson - Mantha
Zetterberg - Larkin - Abdelkader
Athanasiou - Helm - Vanek
Lorito/Bertuzzi/Frk/Tangradi/young waiver claim with upside.
Dekeyser- Alzner
Bogosian - Green
Oulette- Kronwall
(Sproul/Russo)
Mrazek - Coreau
1)Nyquist and Jensen to Buffalo for Bogosian
2)Sign Karl Alzner.
3)Buy out Ericsson (reduces hit to 1.6M).
Goalie;
1)Trade Howard (50% retained) for a mid rounder (dude is still 2.6M good)
Forward;
1)Trade Glendening to Leafs for whatever they would give.
2)Nyquist out (see Defense trade)
3) Vegas takes Sheahan (??)
4) Resign Vanek on the Cheap. Nobody wanted him at trade deadline. Dude played well here and we need a warm body. Can always trade at deadline again.
5)Draft Mittelstadt .
Tatar - Nielson - Mantha
Zetterberg - Larkin - Abdelkader
Athanasiou - Helm - Vanek
Lorito/Bertuzzi/Frk/Tangradi/young waiver claim with upside.
Dekeyser- Alzner
Bogosian - Green
Oulette- Kronwall
(Sproul/Russo)
Mrazek - Coreau
Oddbob
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2016
- 15,930
- 10,468
Where did I defend Holland? Holland has done plenty of questionable things as GM.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Hawks had top 14 draft picks in:
94
97
98 (top 10)
2000 (two picks)
2001
2003
2004 (top 5)
2005 (top 10)
2006 (top 3)
2007 (#1OA)
2008
They made the playoffs 5 out of 14 seasons before they "became good".
Red Wings last top 14 pick?
1991.
is there any sort of trade to be bad between the Wings and MTL for Galchenyuk? even if it's inter-conference/inter-division
Shaman464
No u
'
Some of these things aren't like the others, some of these things just don't belong!
Where does top level talent statistically usually come from?
The top 5 picks!
When did Chicago start turning it around?
When they strung together a few elite players by doing what? Drafting in the top 5!
It's funny how they go from a team that barely makes the playoffs to a multiple cup winner after adding actual elite talent, not just middling players.
Shaman464
No u
But it really isn't all draft. Cam Barker was traded for Leddy, who was a very good defensemen for Chicago in their cup runs. Same thing with Pittsburgh, they also have made trades because they were able to stock up on high level talent to bolster areas they were weak in.
Right now I am very suspicious on Detroit's ability to scout, draft and develop top end D talent. But, better draft positions lead to stock piling prospects that can be used as trading assets to get those players Detroit may not be able to groom in house.
But, Holland doesn't seem to get that.
Right now I am very suspicious on Detroit's ability to scout, draft and develop top end D talent. But, better draft positions lead to stock piling prospects that can be used as trading assets to get those players Detroit may not be able to groom in house.
But, Holland doesn't seem to get that.
Holy eye roll.
"Top 14 picks." HA
Take away their 3rd overall 2006 and 1st overall 2007 pick and we're not even talking about them.
Building contending teams takes a lot of work, but it's pretty much not even possible without those high end core pieces.
Just like Pitt. Are we going to talk about their "Top 14" picks (HA) or are we going to focus on reality: their 1st and 2nd overall picks that anchored it all.
I still can't believe you wasted all of that time and listed all of their picks when you could have just wrote 2006 and 2007.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
I gotta be honest, you've had kind of a bad attitude lately. I don't know what it is but just thought I'd point it out. Makes it tough to maintain a level headed discussion.
Chicago was a mismanaged team for a long time before they turned things around. Their top 3 picks are obvious as parts of their eventual turnaround, but changes in management were just as important.
Look at their drafting the entire 90s. It's... nothing. Cleary is one of the very top players they found. Daniel Cleary. And they had a lot more to work with than we've had in almost 3 decades. That's the point. They had opportunites to grab very good players, or they could have realized much sooner that they needed to get even higher in the draft and gone after that. If we get the 7th pick this year, it's already a solid starting position instead of doing what Chicago did and hang around the 10-14 picks for many years.
If we can also avoid drafting guys like Jack Skille instead of Anze Kopitar, we might turn our team around a little faster than they did.
Shaman464
No u
Since 2005 to 2015 who is the best player Detroit has drafted? I mean if we are looking at 10 year periods, lets say 1993-2003 (when they started to draft some really good players), Chicago didn't have much success, but since 2005 Detroit hasn't found many prize pigs over that period.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
I think looking at the last few years is a bit unfair as many players haven't had time to establish themselves.
2003-2013 we have Mantha/Athanasiou/Tatar/Nyquist/Helm/Abby/Franzen/Quincey/Howard/Mrazek.. not a superstar list, but also no picks higher than 19 and during a long period of contending.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
And yet several teams that have picked worse than Detroit over the past decade have drafted more talented players.
Chicago's draft record over the past decade trumps Detroit.
Detroit's most productive player that was drafted over the past ten years has had a career best 56 point season.
Who are we waiting for to establish their game that fundamentally alters this sinking ship of a roster?
I believe the phrase "Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" best describes the results we can expect from any player currently on the roster and every draft pick in the system.
The players that will actually turn the Wings around are probably around 8-12 years old right now. The current roster and farm system are all worthless. I'd trade every one of them away for a pack of Stride gum.
Shaman464
No u
And will any of those replace Lidstrom, Zetterberg, or Datsyuk?
Also, as was pointed out, Chicago has many players that were selected outside the first round that have more impact than any of those named on that list.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
Reasonable, as always.
We need to find a couple of impact players, but we're also getting our highest draft pick in almost 3 decades this year. The point was that Chicago missed on a ton of their picks for a really long time. And even when they started to find some good players outside the 1st they made some bad decisions with their top picks until they finally landed in "can't miss"-territory with Toews and Kane. If we draft as badly as Chicago did, we will get top 3 picks as well. But so far we haven't, and I don't see us doing it going forward either.
Shaman464
No u
So far Detroit has a lot of swings and misses in the first round. Smith, Kindl, Sheahan, that goalie... Even Larkin and Mantha may turn out to be your standard players for where they were picked.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
I like how Babcock went to the rock bottom Leafs and they're now a better team than the Wings..and yet there's still a bunch of guys on here in denial about where this org is at. The D in Detroit also stands for denial apparently.
KasperTheGrittyGhost
Registered User
Defence;
1)Nyquist and Jensen to Buffalo for Bogosian
2)Sign Karl Alzner.
3)Buy out Ericsson (reduces hit to 1.6M).
Goalie;
1)Trade Howard (50% retained) for a mid rounder (dude is still 2.6M good)
Forward;
1)Trade Glendening to Leafs for whatever they would give.
2)Nyquist out (see Defense trade)
3) Vegas takes Sheahan (??)
4) Resign Vanek on the Cheap. Nobody wanted him at trade deadline. Dude played well here and we need a warm body. Can always trade at deadline again.
5)Draft Mittelstadt .
Tatar - Nielson - Mantha
Zetterberg - Larkin - Abdelkader
Athanasiou - Helm - Vanek
Lorito/Bertuzzi/Frk/Tangradi/young waiver claim with upside.
Dekeyser- Alzner
Bogosian - Green
Oulette- Kronwall
(Sproul/Russo)
Mrazek - Coreau
That's one slow, expensive defense corps. No thank you.
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