Please rank these forwards by best career

[Golden_Jet]

I don’t care where you rank him, but it’s hilarious how salty you guys still are at Tavares for exercising his right.

I don’t think anyone is basing it off Tavares leaving NYI.

 

[Bijelo]

Crosby - nice
Ovetjkin - nice
Kopitar - nice
Malkin - nice
Kane - nice
Giroux - nice
Backström - boring
Stamkos - boring
Tavares - boring
Pavelski - boring

 

[pi314]

In 50 years: we will look at Crosby's Wikipedia page and see he has 3 cups. It's not the MOST cups by any player in history. We see he has 1 Conn Smyth. It's not the MOST CS by any player in history. We see Crosby has a lot of points, but not the most points in history.

My Wife doesn't follow baseball, but she knows who Barry Bonds is. She knows Barry Bonds has the most Home Runs in history. She has no idea who Ken Griffey Junior is, or Alex Rodriguez, or anyone from 5-10.

Having the most goals leaves a MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE legacy that transcends the sport.

We're gonna see Ovechkin has the MOST GOALS OF ALL TIME. And that's just the end of the discussion. It's going to be one MAJOR record not held by Gretzky.



50 years from now, you're gonna have to keep telling young kids that Crosby was an all-round better player because he backchecked, and won board battles, and they're going to ask why he didn't score more goals.

Sid didn’t get to see OV play. He was too busy winning.

 

[Toby91ca]

In 50 years: we will look at Crosby's Wikipedia page and see he has 3 cups. It's not the MOST cups by any player in history. We see he has 1 Conn Smyth. It's not the MOST CS by any player in history. We see Crosby has a lot of points, but not the most points in history.

My Wife doesn't follow baseball, but she knows who Barry Bonds is. She knows Barry Bonds has the most Home Runs in history. She has no idea who Ken Griffey Junior is, or Alex Rodriguez, or anyone from 5-10.

Having the most goals leaves a MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE legacy that transcends the sport.

We're gonna see Ovechkin has the MOST GOALS OF ALL TIME. And that's just the end of the discussion. It's going to be one MAJOR record not held by Gretzky.



50 years from now, you're gonna have to keep telling young kids that Crosby was an all-round better player because he backchecked, and won board battles, and they're going to ask why he didn't score more goals.

Are you trying to say that most people 50 years from now will know who Ovechkin is, but will have no idea who Crosby is? Is this what you are trying to say?

Has anyone ever heard of Lemieux? If so, why?

 

[pi314]

The bottom line is, knowing what we know today, who would a GM pick if both were available at #1?

I suspect 90+% would pick Crosby. He's the overall better player and affects a team's ability to win more than Ovechkin.

If you define "career" by that, then Crosby wins.

TSN asked every GM when both were at their peak who they would want to build around.

3 said OV.

1 wasn’t reachable.

Everyone else said Crosby.

And that was at their peak.

 

[Toby91ca]

TSN asked every GM when both were at their peak who they would want to build around.

3 said OV.

1 wasn’t reachable.

Everyone else said Crosby.

And that was at their peak.

So under 90% then.....assuming this was asked when there were 30 teams in the league.....ironically, that comes to 87%

 

[Spirits]

Individual stats only or do cups count?

Cups always count.

 

[paracord]

In 50 years: we will look at Crosby's Wikipedia page and see he has 3 cups. It's not the MOST cups by any player in history. We see he has 1 Conn Smyth. It's not the MOST CS by any player in history. We see Crosby has a lot of points, but not the most points in history.

My Wife doesn't follow baseball, but she knows who Barry Bonds is. She knows Barry Bonds has the most Home Runs in history. She has no idea who Ken Griffey Junior is, or Alex Rodriguez, or anyone from 5-10.

Having the most goals leaves a MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE legacy that transcends the sport.

We're gonna see Ovechkin has the MOST GOALS OF ALL TIME. And that's just the end of the discussion. It's going to be one MAJOR record not held by Gretzky.



50 years from now, you're gonna have to keep telling young kids that Crosby was an all-round better player because he backchecked, and won board battles, and they're going to ask why he didn't score more goals.

By this logic, Lebron and/or Kareem are better than Jordan. Hank Aaron is better than Mickey Mantle. Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders.

Case closed. Records determine "best," no matter what.

And Crosby was a better all around player because he was more equally a threat in goal scoring as he was in playmaking, compared to Ovechkin. He also put up points at a higher pace, won 3x more cups, and affected the play and elevated his teammates all around more than Ovechkin.

I agree, laymen may be impressed by this stat or that stat, but people who know, know.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Crosby
Ovi
KOPITAR
Malkin
Kane
Stamkos
Pavelski
Tavares
Giroux
Backstrom

 

[Bijelo]

Cups always count.

NHL and international count.

 

[Randyne]

Ovechkin... and the rest.
The guy has by far the biggest hardware. And has been robbed 4-5 times by NHL.
If NHL wouldn't be so jealous Ovechkin's trophy case:
3 Rosses; 10 Rockets; 4-5 Harts; 3 Pearsons; Smythe; Calder. It's almost Gretzky's level hardware.
Sid is standing on Malkin shoulders; w/o him he would be on Thornton level.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Ovechkin... and the rest.
The guy has by far the biggest hardware. And has been robbed 4-5 times by NHL.
If NHL wouldn't be so jealous Ovechkin's trophy case:
3 Rosses; 10 Rockets; 4-5 Harts; 3 Pearsons; Smythe; Calder.
Sid is standing on Malkin shoulders; w/o him he would be on Thornton level.

As a Caps fan I reject this post.

 

[Crosby2010]

Please rank these forwards by best career.

Crosby
OV
Malkin
Kane
Kopitar
Stamkos
Pavelski
Giroux
Tavares
Backstrom

Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Kane
Stamkos
Kopitar
Giroux
Tavares
Backstrom
Pavelski

I don't get this newfound feeling that Pavelski is on his way to the Hall of Fame or anything like that. Hall of Very Good, and that's about it.

 

[SkinsFan09]

By this logic, Lebron and/or Kareem are better than Jordan. Hank Aaron is better than Mickey Mantle. Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders.

Case closed. Records determine "best," no matter what.

And Crosby was a better all around player because he was more equally a threat in goal scoring as he was in playmaking, compared to Ovechkin. He also put up points at a higher pace, won 3x more cups, and affected the play and elevated his teammates all around more than Ovechkin.

I agree, laymen may be impressed by this stat or that stat, but people who know, know.

Crosby is a better player. He also had a supporting cast that went 121-64-28 without him.

 

[YippieKaey]

It's Crosby and then whoever else after for that list. It's not close.


Or we could just watch games for 20 years and call it.

There's a lot of "if pigs had wings they could fly" there lol.. pigs don't have wings, they can't fly.

Yes. And after those 20 years one player is breaking records thought unbreakable whilst being a physical unicorn. The other is also really good and a true great but no significant records being broken. What Sid does best, many have done better. What Ovi does best, only one has done better.

 

[YippieKaey]

I can only imagine how many points Kuch would have this season if he was a center eh?

What do you think 160 already?

Look at the highest scoring seasons ever. They are all by centers. Coincidence? Every 150+ point season ever has been by a center. Coincidence? Like 7 out of the top 10 all time leaders in points are centers even though there are twice as many wingers as centers in the game. Coincidence?

You really need to study the history of this game if you think "centers score more points than wingers" is a controversial statement.

 

[Calderon]

Crosby
Ovechkin
---
Kane
Malkin
---
Kopitar
Stamkos
---
---
---
Backstrom
Giroux
---
Pavelski
Tavares

Even if I have him fourth, Malkin's career is forgettable. A face-of-the-league tier talent who never cared to come to the forefront from a smaller guy's shadow and tapered off his career with shortened utterly forgettable seasons. Found his comfort zone early on and barely took a peek outside. What a bore.

Does he owe me nothing? Certainly not.
Am I even a Pens fan. No.
Something just ticked.

 

[Calderon]

Ovechkin... and the rest.
The guy has by far the biggest hardware. And has been robbed 4-5 times by NHL.
If NHL wouldn't be so jealous Ovechkin's trophy case:
3 Rosses; 10 Rockets; 4-5 Harts; 3 Pearsons; Smythe; Calder. It's almost Gretzky's level hardware.
Sid is standing on Malkin shoulders; w/o him he would be on Thornton level.

Say what now?
Referring to Sedin's Hart and whatnot?
If anything, robbed and ruined by GM McPhee and trash coaches.

 

[gtrower]

The bottom line is, knowing what we know today, who would a GM pick if both were available at #1?

I suspect 90+% would pick Crosby. He's the overall better player and affects a team's ability to win more than Ovechkin.

If you define "career" by that, then Crosby wins.

That is certainly not how I would define “best career.” Per the example I used earlier, there would be at least some debate over who you would draft 1OA for Gretzky and Lemieux. There is absolutely zero debate over who had the better career. They are not equivalent at all.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

In 50 years: we will look at Crosby's Wikipedia page and see he has 3 cups. It's not the MOST cups by any player in history. We see he has 1 Conn Smyth. It's not the MOST CS by any player in history. We see Crosby has a lot of points, but not the most points in history.

My Wife doesn't follow baseball, but she knows who Barry Bonds is. She knows Barry Bonds has the most Home Runs in history. She has no idea who Ken Griffey Junior is, or Alex Rodriguez, or anyone from 5-10.

Having the most goals leaves a MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE legacy that transcends the sport.

We're gonna see Ovechkin has the MOST GOALS OF ALL TIME. And that's just the end of the discussion. It's going to be one MAJOR record not held by Gretzky.



50 years from now, you're gonna have to keep telling young kids that Crosby was an all-round better player because he backchecked, and won board battles, and they're going to ask why he didn't score more goals.

You don’t know if Ovechkin will have the record in 50 years.

And your point is just dumb. Why do you think people know of Bobby Orr? It’s because people list the best there ever was in the game and his name is towards the top.

Crosbys name will be in that list. Above Ovechkins.

 

[nowhereman]

Ovechkin... and the rest.
The guy has by far the biggest hardware. And has been robbed 4-5 times by NHL.
If NHL wouldn't be so jealous Ovechkin's trophy case:
3 Rosses; 10 Rockets; 4-5 Harts; 3 Pearsons; Smythe; Calder. It's almost Gretzky's level hardware.
Sid is standing on Malkin shoulders; w/o him he would be on Thornton level.

I gotta hand it to you. You've managed to pack a lot of incredibly foolish points into what is a relatively short post. Kudos, I guess.

In 50 years: we will look at Crosby's Wikipedia page and see he has 3 cups. It's not the MOST cups by any player in history. We see he has 1 Conn Smyth. It's not the MOST CS by any player in history. We see Crosby has a lot of points, but not the most points in history.

My Wife doesn't follow baseball, but she knows who Barry Bonds is. She knows Barry Bonds has the most Home Runs in history. She has no idea who Ken Griffey Junior is, or Alex Rodriguez, or anyone from 5-10.

Having the most goals leaves a MASSIVE MASSIVE MASSIVE legacy that transcends the sport.

We're gonna see Ovechkin has the MOST GOALS OF ALL TIME. And that's just the end of the discussion. It's going to be one MAJOR record not held by Gretzky.

50 years from now, you're gonna have to keep telling young kids that Crosby was an all-round better player because he backchecked, and won board battles, and they're going to ask why he didn't score more goals.

So we're supposed to rank players based on what the great uninformed, non-hockey fan masses have to say about things? Crosby was simply the better player and hockey people understand that, which is why he will continue to rank higher in the eyes of most. Legacies aren't built on the opinion of casuals.

Look at the highest scoring seasons ever. They are all by centers. Coincidence? Every 150+ point season ever has been by a center. Coincidence? Like 7 out of the top 10 all time leaders in points are centers even though there are twice as many wingers as centers in the game. Coincidence?

You really need to study the history of this game if you think "centers score more points than wingers" is a controversial statement.

Centers score more points because, from the time kids enter the hockey development system, the best players are pushed to center. This is because they are offensive drivers who control the ice and are usually smart enough all-around players to handle the defensive responsibility of a centerman. Whether you watch youth hockey, college hockey or your local beer league team, the centers are almost always the top dogs on their respective rosters. Your idea that centers just leach all their points from secondary assists is simplistic and ignores how elite players generate offense.

And in your hypothetical of Sid and OV switching positions – I think Sid would have a much, much easier time making that transition. It would likely be a point of major frustration for OV, as he is not as versatile a player as Crosby and would have to rethink his entire skillset. Peak OV I think could make the move to center but it would be a stretch after that, as his post-peak game basically morphed from Bobby Hull to Brett Hull. But I'm 99% certain Sid would still be a better two player on the wing than Ovechkin AND end up with more points than him.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

You don’t know if Ovechkin will have the record in 50 years.

And your point is just dumb. Why do you think people know of Bobby Orr? It’s because people list the best there ever was in the game and his name is towards the top.

Crosbys name will be in that list. Above Ovechkins.

Orr is in the big 4. Debatably the greatest who ever played. He has all kinds of records.


Crosby is elite, but probably gonna be ranked somewhere around Beliveau.

OV will be the greatest goalscorer in history for a long long time.

By this logic, Lebron and/or Kareem are better than Jordan. Hank Aaron is better than Mickey Mantle. Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders.

Case closed. Records determine "best," no matter what.

Dumb comparable

Jordan has a ton of NBA records
6x NBA finals MVP
10x Scoring Champion
Bunch of records of PPG averages.

He's widely considered the GOAT.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Orr is in the big 4. Debatably the greatest who ever played. He has all kinds of records.


Crosby is elite, but probably gonna be ranked somewhere around Beliveau.

OV will be the greatest goalscorer in history for a long long time.

Dumb comparable

Jordan has a ton of NBA records
6x NBA finals MVP
10x Scoring Champion
Bunch of records of PPG averages.

He's widely considered the GOAT.

And Ovechkin will be ranked well below Crosby and Beliveau.

 

[Golden_Jet]

And Ovechkin will be ranked well below Crosby and Beliveau.

I doubt that very much.

 

[nowhereman]

Orr is in the big 4. Debatably the greatest who ever played. He has all kinds of records.


Crosby is elite, but probably gonna be ranked somewhere around Beliveau.

OV will be the greatest goalscorer in history for a long long time.

Beliveau is in the top 5-8 players of all time, right around where Sid sits. They'll both still be ahead of OV. Besides, Richard was once considered the greatest goalscorer of all time and lead the all-time list until Howe eventually beat him but Beliveau was still seen as the better player.