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Please rank these forwards by best career

Rich Nixon

Rich Nixon

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Jul 11, 2006
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Gaylord Q Tinkledink said:
The last 4.

Backstrom
Tavares
Pavelski
Giroux.
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Giroux is 2 points behind Pavelski in 151 less games, so I'm interested in the rationale there.

He's also something of an ironman himself (only missed ~15 games since becoming a full-time NHL player 15 years ago, including COVID protocol) so I could see him playing another 3ish seasons and finishing his career with like, 150-200 more points than Pavelski when it's all said and done.
 
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george14

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Mar 9, 2014
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Detroit, MI
Crosby - not sure how this can be debated, factoring everything (NHL, Intl, individual, etc.)
OV - very clearly above everyone else, but behind Crosby.

Malkin - very close with Kane, slight edge to Geno.
Kane - see above
Kopitar - Insanely underrated career given he will get 1,400 points + multiple Selke's.
Stamkos - could leap Kopitar but needs playoff success/700 goals, IMO.

Giroux - offensively better than Pavelski, more AS games, better international career
Tavares - many years to go, will put up good career numbers.
Backstrom - great offensively, lack of awards/AS games
Pavelski - solid player who was good for a long time
 
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FunkySeeFunkyDo

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Aug 3, 2014
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george14 said:
Crosby - not sure how this can be debated, factoring everything (NHL, Intl, individual, etc.)
OV - very clearly above everyone else, but behind Crosby.

Malkin - very close with Kane, slight edge to Geno.
Kane - see above
Kopitar - Insanely underrated career given he will get 1,400 points + multiple Selke's.
Stamkos - could leap Kopitar but needs playoff success/700 goals, IMO.

Giroux - offensively better than Pavelski, more AS games, better international career
Tavares - many years to go, will put up good career numbers.
Backstrom - great offensively, lack of awards/AS games
Pavelski - solid player who was good for a long time
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I think you hav.e the first six in the correct order and Pavs goes last in this list. I’m not sure how to sort Giroux, Tavares and Backstrom. I would probably swap Backstrom and Tavares.
 
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gtrower

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Feb 10, 2016
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george14 said:
Crosby - not sure how this can be debated, factoring everything (NHL, Intl, individual, etc.)
OV - very clearly above everyone else, but behind Crosby.
Click to expand...

Whole-heartedly disagree. In terms of individual career Ovi is clearly ahead of Crosby. It’s when you start to bring in teams, position, overall game that Crosby wins some people over in terms of all-time ranking.

But in terms of individual careers, Ovi’s individual trophy case (18) dwarves Crosby’s (11) and stands only behind Gretzky (32!) and Lemieux (19). Also the goal record is by far the single biggest career accomplishment either will achieve.

Ovi’s career is better by a decent amount. The debate is where they fall in all-time ranks.
 
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hamzarocks

hamzarocks

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Jul 22, 2012
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Crosby and OV are # 1 and 2

At one point they looked untouchable

Now Mcdavid has passed both, and kucherov is potentially challenging them both + Matthews challenging OV as a goal scorer

3 and 4 are Malkin and Kane both are guys whi could be as dominant as Crosby and OV but were not consistent enough

Everyone else after that besides Pavelski are close, with Pavelski being clear cut worst player here
 

Toby91ca

Registered User
Oct 17, 2022
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SI90 said:
Individual stats only or do cups count?

Crosby
Ovi
Kane
Kopitar
Malkin
Stamkos
Backstrom
Pavelski
Giroux
Tavares
Click to expand...
Aren't the ones without the cups also weaker on stats? I haven't checked, that's just my high level guess from looking at the list.
 

george14

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gtrower said:
Whole-heartedly disagree. In terms of individual career Ovi is clearly ahead of Crosby. It’s when you start to bring in teams, position, overall game that Crosby wins some people over in terms of all-time ranking.

But in terms of individual careers, Ovi’s individual trophy case (18) dwarves Crosby’s (11) and stands only behind Gretzky (32!) and Lemieux (19). Also the goal record is by far the single biggest career accomplishment either will achieve.

Ovi’s career is better by a decent amount. The debate is where they fall in all-time ranks.
Click to expand...
Individual? Yes, Ovi has more Richards which is half of his trophy case. Crosby is not a sniper so that is not his game. I'm pretty sure Iginla has more individual awards than Yzerman. Crosby has won the same amount of Lindsay's, and more Smythe's and Art Ross's. Ovi has him by 1 Hart. Goes without saying Crosby was effectively eliminated from any awards during 3 seasons of his prime. Internationally, Crosby has more individual awards too - worth mentioning.

Crosby is statistically better offensively, defensively, and has more team success. Not sure how people are even debating this anymore.
 
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Sky04

Sky04

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Jan 8, 2009
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Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Kane

Kopitar
Stamkos

Backstrom
Giroux/Pavelski
Tavares

Sorry but Tavares only making it 2nd round twice is pathetic for a career with no major hardware, no 90 point or 100 point seasons either. Backstrom has similar numbers to Giroux in the RS, has a cup and has tons of playoff games under his belt he's at the top of the bottom group imo.

Giroux and Pavelski have at least lead their teams on deep runs and challenged for the cup. Giroux taking it to 2 of the top-3 players of his generation on multiple occasions is legendary, Pavs with his clutch goals in deep playoff runs as well, Tavares' biggest playoff highlight is an injury he sustained.
 

gtrower

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george14 said:
Individual? Yes, Ovi has more Richards which is half of his trophy case. Crosby is not a sniper so that is not his game. I'm pretty sure Iginla has more individual awards than Yzerman. Crosby has won the same amount of Lindsay's, and more Smythe's and Art Ross's. Ovi has him by 1 Hart. Goes without saying Crosby was effectively eliminated from any awards during 3 seasons of his prime. Internationally, Crosby has more individual awards too - worth mentioning.

Crosby is statistically better offensively, defensively, and has more team success. Not sure how people are even debating this anymore.
Click to expand...

I mean you’re proving my point. If you remove goal scoring accolades then their careers are extremely close. When you include them Ovi’s career is significantly ahead. They have nearly the same number of points and Ovi has 74% more goals.

Crosby missing large portions of 3 seasons is unfortunate and less important in discussions of all-time rank. But it definitely hurts him in discussions of overall career. As it should.

Crosby’s case for all time rank is better than his case for all time career. Ovi’s case for all time career is better than his case for all time rank. They are separate discussions.

And again, the goal scoring record is by far the greatest career accomplishment either will have.
 
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Toby91ca

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gtrower said:
Whole-heartedly disagree. In terms of individual career Ovi is clearly ahead of Crosby. It’s when you start to bring in teams, position, overall game that Crosby wins some people over in terms of all-time ranking.

But in terms of individual careers, Ovi’s individual trophy case (18) dwarves Crosby’s (11) and stands only behind Gretzky (32!) and Lemieux (19). Also the goal record is by far the single biggest career accomplishment either will achieve.

Ovi’s career is better by a decent amount. The debate is where they fall in all-time ranks.
Click to expand...
I also don't think there is much of a debate, but in the opposite direction. To me, Crosby is easily the better overall player and better overall career. By "easily" I don't mean he's way higher on the all-time list, I just mean it's an easy determination for me. I think the majority would agree with that, but certainly understand others thinking the opposite, I just don't get it though.

I agree with the above suggestions though....1-2 is clearly Crosby and Ovechkin, the next 4 would be Malkin, Kane, Kopitar and Stamkos.....and then the other 4 below that.
 
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gtrower

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Toby91ca said:
I also don't think there is much of a debate, but in the opposite direction. To me, Crosby is easily the better overall player and better overall career. By "easily" I don't mean he's way higher on the all-time list, I just mean it's an easy determination for me. I think the majority would agree with that, but certainly understand others thinking the opposite, I just don't get it though.

I agree with the above suggestions though....1-2 is clearly Crosby and Ovechkin, the next 4 would be Malkin, Kane, Kopitar and Stamkos.....and then the other 4 below that.
Click to expand...

I think we have a disconnect on definition of the post - which is fine. For me best player does not equal best career. For me they are very different concepts. Example:

Some people argue Lemiuex was an equal/better overall talent than Gretzky, but just didn’t have the health. But nobody would ever argue Lemieux had a better career than Gretzky. Because they are different discussions.

Like somebody above said McDavid has already passed Ovi/Crosby careers. That’s laughable. Not even close (yet).
 
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george14

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gtrower said:
I mean you’re proving my point. If you remove goal scoring accolades then their careers are extremely close. When you include them Ovi’s career is significantly ahead. They have nearly the same number of points and Ovi has 74% more goals.

Crosby missing large portions of 3 seasons is unfortunate and less important in discussions of all-time rank. But it definitely hurts him in discussions of overall career. As it should.

Crosby’s case for all time rank is better than his case for all time career. Ovi’s case for all time career is better than his case for all time rank. They are separate discussions.

And again, the goal scoring record is by far the greatest career accomplishment either will have.
Click to expand...
I’m not removing anything, I’m stating there is a trophy for scoring goals which is something Ovi focuses his game on. Crosby is a center and has a different responsibility entirely. People don’t consider Malone or Kareem the goats because they have/had the points record. Same with Brees/Manning who had the TD record before Brady. There is far more to the game.

Individual awards are not always a good comparison given the positional differences. Did Hull have a better career than Yzerman because he scored more?

Your points are fair but goals and assists are all points. Scoring more does not always = better. Especially given the fact one guy has 40 more points in 150 fewer games. They aren’t even that close when it comes to offensive point production. Crosby has to play defense as well and take faceoffs, which he will set the all time record for wins next season.
 
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