Player Discussion: Brandon Sutter | III

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MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
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Vancouver, BC
36 goals is fine, amazing even. 0 assists is unprecedented in the NHL and would be indicative of some massive flaws in the player's game (puck hog, tunnel vision, doesn't use his linemates, etc). It would presumably result in his two wingers having terrible offensive seasons themselves and the entire line being largely ineffective. In no way can the centreman on a line have 0 assists and have that not negatively impact the rest of the line.

Fortunately that won't happen so let's spend less time trying to figure out the merits of an improbable hypothetical and look at a more likely stat line - 18 g 18 a 36 pts. If those were the numbers for our 3C - assuming commensurate ice time, PP minutes, line mates etc (i.e. not actually getting 2C opportunities but being called the 3C) - then that would be a very strong season and would bode well for the club. If that is the production of our 2C (again assuming all the ice time and deployment of your second offensive line) then that would be somewhat poor. Not totally outside the range of a 2C - I believe they ranged from 35 to 55 points last year - but certainly on the extremely low side of production.

And the reason role matters? Well if Sutter is getting heavy offensive minutes, PP time, and offensive wingers then it means Horvat is not, which will negatively impact Horvat's production and the team's production overall. Now if Horvat gets those offensive minutes it means his production should be up in the 45-55 range and Sutter's 36 points would be very strong tertiary production given his lesser minutes, PP time, wingers, etc.

Context is everything when evaluating production.

Yup, spot on, especially the bolded bits.

Before my hockey watching time but ya, 40+16 is pretty lopsided. Another one was Bondra's 52+26 in 97-98 which is weird cause his breakout season saw him put up 37+48 just a few years earlier. But different for wingers than centres and both still a far cry from zero (or even 1) assist.

Yeah, it's a lot different for wingers. You can be a shoot-first guy who finishes plays for a playmaking center and be effective. It doesn't work to be an anchor in the middle of the ice who can't distribute the puck to the guys on either side of you.

I actually feel Sutter is much better cast as a winger and suspect he could do a decent job as a wing on the 2nd line. As a #2 center? No freaking way.

This is a player who, two seasons ago, had 2 primary assists in an entire year and one of those was a puck which deflected accidentally off his foot.
 

Reverend Mayhem

Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Feb 15, 2009
28,291
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I agree. Paying an above average 3C that kind of money isn't ridiculous. It's too bad Brandon Sutter isn't an above average 3C, which is why that's a terrible contract for him.

In comparison, Malhotra was signed to a cap hit that took 4.2% of salary expenditures for the 2010-11 season. Sutter takes up 5.9% of the same statistic next season.

Any Malhotra-calibre players available this year or last?
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
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Thought it was time to bump the Sutter thread. He's come through for the team thus far.

In comparison, Malhotra was signed to a cap hit that took 4.2% of salary expenditures for the 2010-11 season. Sutter takes up 5.9% of the same statistic next season.

I think if you look at cap room distribution, 3rd line players as a whole now takes up a larger percentage of the cap this season than in 2010-2011. Besides, Sutter has averaged a minute more of ice time than Malhotra and Sutter is being used on the 1st PP unit.
 

WTG

December 5th
Jan 11, 2015
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I'd rather have Manny and his godly Advanced stats in 2010

I mean the guy started in the had 24.83% OZ starts, while still sporting a 45.1 CF%.

That's pretty damn insane.
 

Gaunce4gm

Trusted Hockey Man
Dec 5, 2015
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His OT goal was very similar to a goal he scored in the pre season. The speed he had combined with his apparently very good ability to pick the top corner in full flight IS impressive.


Overpaid, but MAYBE he earns it this year.
 

Catamarca Livin

Registered User
Jul 29, 2010
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I'd rather have Manny and his godly Advanced stats in 2010

I mean the guy started in the had 24.83% OZ starts, while still sporting a 45.1 CF%.

That's pretty damn insane.

I rather have Sutter. He is more offensive.
 

Bougieman

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Nov 12, 2008
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Canucks fans don't want to like this guy no matter how fantastic he plays, because they see him as taking ice-time away from Horvat -- a fan favorite. They also think he's overpaid, and since he was the return for Bonino who was the return for Kesler -- also think he's not much of a return for Kesler.

I don't know what it's going to take for him to win over the fanbase, but I predict it will have to be a LOT. And it's a shame, because he's a good dude and doesn't really deserve all the criticism. He's played well for us.
 

absolute garbage

Registered User
Jan 22, 2006
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Ehh, not really. Sutter scores more goals but offensively they were pretty much equal. Malhotra was a consistent 30p guy too, with one season at 40 (on pace for that at least).
 

Gaunce4gm

Trusted Hockey Man
Dec 5, 2015
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Canucks fans don't want to like this guy no matter how fantastic he plays, because they see him as taking ice-time away from Horvat -- a fan favorite. They also think he's overpaid, and since he was the return for Bonino who was the return for Kesler -- also think he's not much of a return for Kesler.

I don't know what it's going to take for him to win over the fanbase, but I predict it will have to be a LOT. And it's a shame, because he's a good dude and doesn't really deserve all the criticism. He's played well for us.

In retrospect, that Kesler contract is atrocious, and I'm glad we don't have him anymore.
 

Cupless44

Registered User
Jun 25, 2014
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I rather have Sutter. He is more offensive.

Me too.

While I appreciate Manny's intangibles and solid 2011 season hid god like status is more than a little carried away on here.

He is great on face offs and carved out a decent career as a defensive forward...but that was also after he failed to live up to his first round draft pick status, bounced around the league and has a career high of 14 goals in a season which he did once.

Sutter is a more skilled hockey player.
 

nuckfan insk

Registered User
Nov 3, 2005
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saskatoon Sask
Canucks fans don't want to like this guy no matter how fantastic he plays, because they see him as taking ice-time away from Horvat -- a fan favorite. They also think he's overpaid, and since he was the return for Bonino who was the return for Kesler -- also think he's not much of a return for Kesler.

I don't know what it's going to take for him to win over the fanbase, but I predict it will have to be a LOT. And it's a shame, because he's a good dude and doesn't really deserve all the criticism. He's played well for us.

I didn't like the sutter trade, and I think he is overpaid. I don't feel he is a #2c. I feel he is certainly paid like one. He is the highest paid forward to have never surpassed 40 points (which was 7 years ago in his sophomore season). I also don't feel he has a lot of grit either.

Now that being said, you can't really fault sutter for signing that deal. It's a benning blunder. I see him possibly going to Las Vegas, maybe not. But it's not his fault if willie insists he's the 2c and on the top pp unit. Calling Baton Rouge is my favorite Garth brooks song so I hope all his goals are scored in Vancouver haha. I hope he does well but I'm not a fan
 

JA

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banme*

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Jun 7, 2014
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I'd rather have Manny and his godly Advanced stats in 2010

I mean the guy started in the had 24.83% OZ starts, while still sporting a 45.1 CF%.

That's pretty damn insane.

Good, but a ways to go before he reaches the levels of current year Dorsett, the NHL's first 75-75 man.
 

thepuckmonster

Professional Winner.
Oct 25, 2011
31,251
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Vancouver
I was also in the camp that was pretty happy with Sutter's 20 games last season. I don't think he's a world beater by any means but he's definitely got a hell of a shot -- something this team desperately needs.

If the GranBranHan line can keep up their strong forechecking and speed throughout the season they're going to be hell to play against, whether they hit the score sheet or not. I also like Hansen in this role more as it really utilizes his passing skills at high speed.
 

DL44

Status quo
Sep 26, 2006
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I was also in the camp that was pretty happy with Sutter's 20 games last season. I don't think he's a world beater by any means but he's definitely got a hell of a shot -- something this team desperately needs.

If the GranBranHan line can keep up their strong forechecking and speed throughout the season they're going to be hell to play against, whether they hit the score sheet or not. I also like Hansen in this role more as it really utilizes his passing skills at high speed.

I definitely liked what i saw outta him in his sample of games... dat speed. It will get him a lot of rush chances.

I'm gonna get in trouble for this one again... he's good for creating a rush opportunity and scoring chance every game from just his speed.. - i won't say breakaway again.

GranBranHan is a little rough off the tongue.. how about GraBranSon? Too close to Gudbranson?
 

Soups On

Registered User
Apr 27, 2012
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Nobody is arguing that he isn't a solid enough player or good #3 center.

Y2K is :)

What are your thoughts on him so far MS? Personally, I've been really impressed with his ability to close gaps and actively use his reach to disrupt the oppositions puck control, especially on the rush. Though Corsi may not be to his side, his defensive IQ and work on the back check is impressive.

Paired with an effective Granlund, 20+ goals and 40+ points may not be very surprising this year, especially with his great shot. Though on the PP, having him in the middle of the ice on the Sedin unit seems to mitigate his talents.
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
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Hiding under WTG's bed...
Paired with an effective Granlund, 20+ goals and 40+ points may not be very surprising this year, especially with his great shot.
Less surprise on the goals (which he has done in recent history - just a couple seasons ago) vs point totals (which he has never done).

Probably get a better idea when we play some *legit* teams vs the two awful teams we just faced.
 

Oliewud

Registered User
May 13, 2013
2,862
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He's Kesler Lite. What more could you want?

And I'd rather have Sutter at 4.4 than Kesler at 6.9 right now.
 
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