Plans, Trades, and Automobiles: Fixing the Winged Wheel

[SoupNazi]

boyle will not improve the team to make a deep run

Neither will trading developing players like Tatar or Smith for a defenseman with question marks surrounding him.

 

[SoupNazi]

What did the Rangers give up for Kevin Klein? Just curious. That's the same guy that was on the Preds, right?

They traded Michael Del Zotto for him, and yes, the same guy.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What did the Rangers give up for Kevin Klein? Just curious. That's the same guy that was on the Preds, right?

del zotto

 

[InjuredChoker]

Advanced stats that talk about what happens when 5 guys are out there, and try to attribute it all to 1 person vs goals and assists that can be directly attributed to one person is dumb.

There's 4 other guys out there with Stralman and Boyle, seems dumb to attribute what that unit does to one of those 5 people.

Why I don't like advanced stats that much. Too many factors that people use to try and prove points that fit their agenda.

that's why i don't think advanced stats are perfect.

i have no agenda here. i'd think differently if they'd tell different things to me.

but when team consistently does better, or even lot better when strålman is on the ice, and players do worse when he is not on the ice... that tells me that it's on strålman and it's not on on other players.

by eye-test, his skillset seems to match that. smart, steady, good skater, reads well, makes nice first pass.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Neither will trading developing players like Tatar or Smith for a defenseman with question marks surrounding him.

yes you're right except this is the true statement

al NHL dmen apart from
-weber, doughty, keith, suter, subban have question marks around them

 

[SoupNazi]

yes you're right except this is the true statement

al NHL dmen apart from
-weber, doughty, keith, suter, subban have question marks around them

Okay, I'll play along. What are Pietrangelo's question marks?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Okay, I'll play along. What are Pietrangelo's question marks?

sorry i forgot him

questions marks for others not on the list i said(plus piteraneglo) can be age, contract, defensive limitations, size, speed, offensive limitations, quickness, ppqb ability, strength, etc

 

[Frk It]

just tell me who you feel if we traded would be overpaying?

forget who the top 3 RH shot dman is as we can discuss that after

all holland says, and he says the same thing over and over, is we will not move anyone of value ever for anyone of value. i agree moving nyquist and mantha for ehrhoff is stupid, but it cant be a blanket statement assuming all our prospects are equal and all potential trade targets are equal

Tell me which players you think could actually be had, and I'll tell you what's an overpayment.

For guys that were on the block I think Nyquist + 1st + prospect or Mantha + pick + prospect would have been foolish. And I think the fact that we weren't willing to do that, is why we didn't get anyone.

 

[SoupNazi]

Tell me which players you think could actually be had, and I'll tell you what's an overpayment.

For guys that were on the block I think Nyquist + 1st + prospect or Mantha + pick + prospect would have been foolish. And I think the fact that we weren't willing to do that, is why we didn't get anyone.

The Nyquist + Smith + 1st that was reportedly turned down from Vancouver for Edler last year at the draft would have been a huge mistake; frankly I'm glad Gillis was so stupid that he turned that down.

 

[InjuredChoker]

The Nyquist + Smith + 1st that was reportedly turned down from Vancouver for Edler last year at the draft would have been a huge mistake; frankly I'm glad Gillis was so stupid that he turned that down.

1st was never on the table.

 

[SoupNazi]

sorry i forgot him

questions marks for others not on the list i said(plus piteraneglo) can be age, contract, defensive limitations, size, speed, offensive limitations, quickness, ppqb ability, strength, etc

We're in agreement there; I don't think ANY hockey player, forward, defenseman or goalie, with exception of a few, has no question marks surrounding their game. I just think it's about minimizing risks and the guys that are available on the trade market have more question marks than I am comfortable with.

But then part of that could be that I'm high on Brendan Smith and think if Babcock would start using him on the power play we'd be very surprised at what he could do.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Tell me which players you think could actually be had, and I'll tell you what's an overpayment.

For guys that were on the block I think Nyquist + 1st + prospect or Mantha + pick + prospect would have been foolish. And I think the fact that we weren't willing to do that, is why we didn't get anyone.

i think smith plus tatar plus ferraro/4th rd pick for byflugien(sp) is not an overpayment

i think nyquist plus mantha for edler is an overpayment

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

We're in agreement there; I don't think ANY hockey player, forward, defenseman or goalie, with exception of a few, has no question marks surrounding their game. I just think it's about minimizing risks and the guys that are available on the trade market have more question marks than I am comfortable with.

But then part of that could be that I'm high on Brendan Smith and think if Babcock would start using him on the power play we'd be very surprised at what he could do.

i am high on brenden smith as well, big fan of his, but i dont see him as a top pairing rh shot dman that can run the pp and rack up points while effectively moving the puck and if he could i would totally overlook his limitations

 

[Chance on Chance]

Adding a Boyle would improve the team. If you couple that with other additions or changes, you can make a run. The Rangers did off a hot goaltender. Why can't we do it with Zetterberg and Datsyuk leading the way?

Like? and 5 other teams in the east can say that.

 

[SantosHalper]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Mantha/X
Nyquist-Weiss-Franzen
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller-Helm-Abdelkader
Ferraro-Andersson-Glendening

Kronwall-Ericsson
Ehrhoff-X
DeKeyser-Smith
Lashoff

Howard
Gustavsson

trade Kindl+Almqvist+3rd round 2014 -> BUF, Ehrhoff -> DET
sign Boyle/Salo/Morris/M.Greene

GR
Callahan-Athanasiou-Pulkkinen
X/Mantha-Nestrasil-Frk
Hoggan-McIntyre-Grant
Campbell-Aubry-Tvrdon

Oullet-Sproul
Paetsch-Marchenko
Evans-Backman
Jensen,Nedomlel,Nicastro

Mrazek
Coreau
Paterson

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Like? and 5 other teams in the east can say that.

So I have to have a solution on hand or else there is nobody else that can improve the team?

Also, so what if 5 teams in the east can say that? If the Wings improve moreso than those 5 teams and players in the system progress better than their players, we can make a run. The point is there is a chance to make a run as long as moves are made.

Pack it in, guys. Season's over.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

So I have to have a solution on hand or else there is nobody else that can improve the team?

Also, so what if 5 teams in the east can say that? If the Wings improve moreso than those 5 teams and players in the system progress better than their players, we can make a run. The point is there is a chance to make a run as long as moves are made.

Pack it in, guys. Season's over.

though while i agree if we make the right moves we can make a run, when looking at the teams who are better then us(i would say the 7 other playoff teams in the east) and couple that with the only two sueprstars on the team and what they said following the season, minor tweaks are not going to get it done, not next spring or the ones to follow.

so if the course is minor tweaks its much more reasonable to say we wont be good enough then to hope we will be

 

[ArGarBarGar]

though while i agree if we make the right moves we can make a run, when looking at the teams who are better then us(i would say the 7 other playoff teams in the east) and couple that with the only two sueprstars on the team and what they said following the season, minor tweaks are not going to get it done, not next spring or the ones to follow.

so if the course is minor tweaks its much more reasonable to say we wont be good enough then to hope we will be

What is a major change that would improve the team? Just a hypothetical.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What is a major change that would improve the team? Just a hypothetical.

both short and long term?

byflugien instead of boyle

gilbert instead of lashoff/oullete

vrbata/moulson instead of alffie

kronwall-byflugien
dekeyser-gilbert
ericsson-marchenko

zetts-dats-vrbata
nyquist-weiss-franzen
jurco-sheahan-abby
miller-helm-glendening

 

[icKx]

What kid are you going to play over Boyle that's going to give you 10+ goals and 25-30 assists?

If Smith had as much PP time as Boyle...

 

[Chance on Chance]

So I have to have a solution on hand or else there is nobody else that can improve the team?

Also, so what if 5 teams in the east can say that? If the Wings improve moreso than those 5 teams and players in the system progress better than their players, we can make a run. The point is there is a chance to make a run as long as moves are made.

Pack it in, guys. Season's over.

Not you, Holland. And it seems like unless something falls into his lap we're gonna be going for Boyle or Salo. And its no sure thing we'll get either.

 

[wings95]

sorry i forgot him

questions marks for others not on the list i said(plus piteraneglo) can be age, contract, defensive limitations, size, speed, offensive limitations, quickness, ppqb ability, strength, etc

PK has defensive question marks, IMO. I don't think he is elite yet but as he matures he may become better.

 

[Heaton]

If Smith had as much PP time as Boyle...

Smith should definitely be on the PP, but his PP goal this year wasn't exactly some smoking gun considering it was a fluky awkward shot that happened to find the back of the net.

We honestly have no clue if he'd actually produce there in the NHL, but there's honestly no good reason that he hasn't gotten a shot.

 

[InjuredChoker]

If Smith had as much PP time as Boyle...

kronner has earned his position is staying there.

LH-LH point man are not that effective usually.. especially when both of them are more of a shooters instead of QBs.

so smith getting as much pp time as boyle and producing as much isn't realistic imo.

 

[Frk It]

Smith should definitely be on the PP, but his PP goal this year wasn't exactly some smoking gun considering it was a fluky awkward shot that happened to find the back of the net.

We honestly have no clue if he'd actually produce there in the NHL, but there's honestly no good reason that he hasn't gotten a shot.

Fluky shot, sure. But he didn't need a good shoot to score there, was an empty net rebound opportunity.

But he put himself in the right place at the right time to hop on that rebound. Nice heads up play by him.