Confirmed Trade: [PIT/OTT/VGK] PART II (see OP)

[Bringer of Jollity]

Pretty much. It's a very weird.

I'd need to look closer to the specific trades but the value is really wonky somewhere along the line. VGK effectively gets a 2nd line center for a nothing prospect then gives him up for trash. Not like it ultimately matters. Trade goes through and the Warriors...err Penguins just get even better. Waiting for news that they've managed to land Karlsson at full retention for Hunwick, a player on IR and a conditional 5th.

 

[aufheben]

It's only weird because it hasn't been done before.

People are way overthinking this trying to find reasons to be mad.

Mad? I really don't even give a shit, I just think this narrative is funny: Spending millions of dollars in a complex 3-team trade to bring in a goon is reasonable.

It seems like every poster calling this logical and good value for Vegas is a Pens fan, I'm curious what Vegas fans actually think about it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Mad? I really don't even give a ****, I just think this narrative is funny: Spending millions of dollars in a complex 3-team trade to bring in a goon is reasonable.

It seems like every poster calling this logical and good value for Vegas is a Pens fan, I'm curious what Vegas fans actually think about it.

Vegas fans opinions don't really matter TBTH. Only GMGM. He's the one who made the deal and he wanted Reaves.

Reaves isn't a goon, but for those looking to have an issue with the deal, the label is quite convenient.

Reaves was valued enough by the Blues to be protected in the expansion draft. Then valued enough by JR to give up his first rounder and jump down 20 spots.

It's really not that difficult to understand that GMGM valued Reaves, as did two other GMs before him in less than a calendar year.

 

[aufheben]

Vegas fans opinions don't really matter TBTH. Only GMGM. He's the one who made the deal and he wanted Reaves.

Reaves isn't a goon, but for those looking to have an issue with the deal, the label is quite convenient.

Reaves was valued enough by the Blues to be protected in the expansion draft. Then valued enough by JR to give up his first rounder and jump down 20 spots.

It's really not that difficult to understand that GMGM valued Reaves, as did two other GMs before him in less than a calendar year.

Nah, I already thought that.

Edit: also this "everyone hates Pittsburgh" card is getting old. I don't mind the Penguins at all.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

If you think that Vegas traded Brassard for Reaves and a 4th, then you do not understand this trade and you should stop trying to discuss the trade.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Nah, I already thought that.

Thought what?

Honestly it doesn't matter. Not trying to be a dick, but the only opinion that matters is GMGM.

He valued Reaves, so did JR and Armstrong. Three GMs showed they valued Reaves since June. But pretending the Pens sent Sestito fits the narrative around here I guess.

 

[aufheben]

Thought what?

Honestly it doesn't matter. Not trying to be a dick, but the only opinion that matters is GMGM.

He valued Reaves, so did JR and Armstrong. Three GMs showed they valued Reaves since June. But pretending the Pens sent Sestito fits the narrative around here I guess.

Again this card is so. old. Not everyone hates your team, Jesus.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Again this card is so. old. Not everyone hates your team, Jesus.

Your the one who keeps bringing that up and alluding to it, not me.

I keep saying people who have issues with this deal are using Reaves is a goon as some silly logic to pretend Vegas got no value in the deal... even though as I keep pointing out, two other GMs valued him quite highly as well.

 

[StreetHawk]

I'd need to look closer to the specific trades but the value is really wonky somewhere along the line. VGK effectively gets a 2nd line center for a nothing prospect then gives him up for trash. Not like it ultimately matters. Trade goes through and the Warriors...err Penguins just get even better. Waiting for news that they've managed to land Karlsson at full retention for Hunwick, a player on IR and a conditional 5th.

It's a paper transition that Brassard was even a Knight.

Compare this deal to the Ott/Col/Nas Transaction for Duchene.

It had to be done that way on paper so that Vegas could retain on Brassard. Who knows, maybe a thank you from Vegas to Pitt for MAF choosing to go to the expansion draft rather than get traded to another NHL team.

Brassard for a 1st and a goalie prospect (former 2nd rounder) is pretty much the stat line that Ottawa finishes with. A swap of 3rd round picks which they get the short end of, since theirs is higher and a year earlier. And a swap of prospects, where the Sens send an ECHL guy for an AHL guy.

If this is a market setter, Buffalo, NYR, etc. won't be happy. A 2C that Pitt gets at $3 million cap for 2 playoff runs is way better than a LW UFA even at 50% retained for the rest of the year.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Then the pens should have kept him and offered up some other player. Vegas has not been bullied by teams. They didn't need Reaves at all. They already have too many forwards and dmen when healthy. GMGM just couldn't help himself from making yet another stupid trade deadline trade that does nothing for his team.

Well apparently Vegas thinks they need him.

And yeah, that Rutherford, what a bonehead huh? Wish the Pens had a GM who could get results....

 

[Nakawick]

I would have made the picks a little better and/or thrown in B prospect and keep both Reaves and Cole and sent out Hunwick if it was up to me. I sure GMJR would have as well, but GMGM wanted Reaves and that is what got the ball rolling for the trade. So as another poster already alluded, that is 3 GM’s who recognize Reaves’s value, unless you think those GM’s are idiots, which laughably some posters here evidently do.

 

[hangman005]

Mad? I really don't even give a ****, I just think this narrative is funny: Spending millions of dollars in a complex 3-team trade to bring in a goon is reasonable.

It seems like every poster calling this logical and good value for Vegas is a Pens fan, I'm curious what Vegas fans actually think about it.

It's an awful trade for Vegas... Regardless of what GMGM thinks, he's done a great job for us this far this year, but that's not going to stop from calling a steaming pile of turd when I see one.

Reaves certainly has value.... just not to our team, his style of play does not fit in with that teams style, if we were to play him we lose an extremely effective 4th line for what a guy that can hit people. It's subtraction by addition. But the big bad West and playoffs... our style of play has dominated the West so far this year, the playoffs are different yes, but the other teams are not going to change their style of games to just to take runs at as every single shift... it's counter productive for them.

Vegas Retains money on a contract, takes on a cap dump in Reaves and gives up T. Lindberg.... for a 4th. It's pathetic, we get nothing from Ottawa, despite the fact we retain their players salary so they can make this trade happen. We make Pittsburgh a much better team and we get a f***en 4th. Sorry GMGM this trade his horseshit and if I were in charge it definitely would not have happened, especially for that price.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Vegas fans opinions don't really matter TBTH. Only GMGM. He's the one who made the deal and he wanted Reaves.

Reaves isn't a goon, but for those looking to have an issue with the deal, the label is quite convenient.

Reaves was valued enough by the Blues to be protected in the expansion draft. Then valued enough by JR to give up his first rounder and jump down 20 spots.

It's really not that difficult to understand that GMGM valued Reaves, as did two other GMs before him in less than a calendar year.

But Reeves was not part of the original deal that the teams agreed to but the league didn't allow.It's not like Vegas targeted him ,He was chump change tossed in to push the deal through.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

But Reeves was not part of the original deal that the teams agreed to but the league didn't allow.It's not like Vegas targeted him ,He was chump change tossed in to push the deal through.

No, Vegas had to send something to Ott, which was what screwed up the original deal:



Vegas and the Pens were already talking about Reaves this week:

 

[TheAngryHank]

No, Vegas had to send something to Ott, which was what screwed up the original deal:



Vegas and the Pens were already talking about Reaves this week:

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[BigEezyE22]

It's an awful trade for Vegas... Regardless of what GMGM thinks, he's done a great job for us this far this year, but that's not going to stop from calling a steaming pile of turd when I see one.

Reaves certainly has value.... just not to our team, his style of play does not fit in with that teams style, if we were to play him we lose an extremely effective 4th line for what a guy that can hit people. It's subtraction by addition. But the big bad West and playoffs... our style of play has dominated the West so far this year, the playoffs are different yes, but the other teams are not going to change their style of games to just to take runs at as every single shift... it's counter productive for them.

Vegas Retains money on a contract, takes on a cap dump in Reaves and gives up T. Lindberg.... for a 4th. It's pathetic, we get nothing from Ottawa, despite the fact we retain their players salary so they can make this trade happen. We make Pittsburgh a much better team and we get a ****en 4th. Sorry GMGM this trade his horse**** and if I were in charge it definitely would not have happened, especially for that price.

The price consisted of cap space that otherwise was NOT GOING TO BE USED.

 

[derriko]

The price consisted of cap space that otherwise was NOT GOING TO BE USED.

Agreed. I don’t think Reaves is a fit, but he certainty wouldn’t be bad with Bellamare and Nosek playing 10 minutes a night. He could wear down some opposing defenseman if given the chance in a playoff series. Depth is one of the absolute most important things while major a run in the playoffs. There will be injuries. Sliding Reaves into the 4th line could be useful.

Vegas plays a pure speed / transition game just like Reaves didn’t fit in with in Pittsburgh though. As has been stated a million times, Vegas needs help on the 3rd line so Tuch isn’t playing with scrubs.

This trade doesn’t address this. This basically upgrades their 13th / 14th forward from Matteau to Reaves.

But again, it was basically for cash. As an Ottawa fan, just the thought of that gives my stomach tingles. My new team just paid millions for a healthy scratch and a 4th rounder while my other team is selling off a future Hall of Famer for money. I’m just letting that sink in...

 

[hangman005]

The price consisted of cap space that otherwise was NOT GOING TO BE USED.

So we should got out and sign a whole lot of randoms to big contracts just to use up that cap space?

The fact of the matter is we used our cap space to make another team better and didn't get enough value for doing so,

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

So we should got out and sign a whole lot of randoms to big contracts just to use up that cap space?

The fact of the matter is we used our cap space to make another team better and didn't get enough value for doing so,

In what world is Ryan Reaves + a 4th not enough value for retaining a few million in cap over 2 years?

What do you expect to get for that price? You seem to be astronomically over-estimating the value of a few million in cap space.

 

[Rebels57]

i like the trade but man pittsburgh has given up a lot of assets to end up with Brassard.

1st 2017, 1st 2018, 3rd 2019, 4th 2018, Gustavsson, Sundquist, Cole for 3rd 2018, Lindberg, Dunn and 40% Brassard

Awful asset management but these things happen in Win-Now mode and if they win a 3rd Cup it wont matter.

 

[BHD]

Awful asset management? Ruthford literally did what any GM should do if they're in a situation like his. I know this place values picks and prospects, but...

 

[hangman005]

In what world is Ryan Reaves + a 4th not enough value for retaining a few million in cap over 2 years?

What do you expect to get for that price? You seem to be astronomically over-estimating the value of a few million in cap space.

It's more than just cap space, it's the entire mechanism that allows this trade to happen. Without us, Pittsburgh doesn't get better, and Ottawa doesn't get to cheap out. Furthermore Ryan Reaves doesn't fit into our team, so it's more like Vegas is retaining salary, taking on a cap dump and giving up T. Lindberg for what a 4th.

Quite frankly if other teams want to use us to get better and want to use us to pay salary on their players, we shouldn't be doing that for a f***en 4th.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

One thing I am seeing not mentioned enough is that GMGM bought something with 2M of empty cap space that is a management asset. Great report with GMJR don’t be surprised if they have future trades with each other. In the management world networking like that is priceless.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

It's more than just cap space, it's the entire mechanism that allows this trade to happen. Without us, Pittsburgh doesn't get better, and Ottawa doesn't get to cheap out. Furthermore Ryan Reaves doesn't fit into our team, so it's more like Vegas is retaining salary, taking on a cap dump and giving up T. Lindberg for what a 4th.

Quite frankly if other teams want to use us to get better and want to use us to pay salary on their players, we shouldn't be doing that for a ****en 4th.

No. It is literally just cap space, of which Vegas has an ample amount. It is simply you who is fixated on what this trade means for Ottawa and Pittsburgh. That is not McPhee's concern.

McPhee was looking to acquire Reaves, for one. You can disagree with his assessment of Reaves, but that is the fact of the matter. No matter your assessment of Reaves, it is absolutely wrong to act like Vegas got an unfair payment for a few million in cap space over 2 years.

If you disagree with me, post what your idea of a fair repayment for 40% retention of Brassard's contract would be.

 

[hangman005]

No. It is literally just cap space, of which Vegas has an ample amount. It is simply you who is fixated on what this trade means for Ottawa and Pittsburgh. That is not McPhee's concern.

McPhee was looking to acquire Reaves, for one. You can disagree with his assessment of Reaves, but that is the fact of the matter. No matter your assessment of Reaves, it is absolutely wrong to act like Vegas got an unfair payment for a few million in cap space over 2 years.

If you disagree with me, post what your idea of a fair repayment for 40% retention of Brassard's contract would be.

I don't care if we have $10 mil in caps space or $2 mil in cap space, if another team wants to use it, they are going to pay for it. You say it's not his concern what Ottawa and Pittsburgh get out of it... quite frankly it should be... and he would be an idiot for it not have been.

As for what I think fair repayment would be, a 3rd from Ottawa and a 3rd for Pittsburgh, and seeing as Pittsburgh would still need us to take Reaves for it to work, the 4th the gave us too. And if Ottawa and Pittsburgh don't want to pay that price to use our ample ample cap space, good for them, they can find someone else to facilitate their trade because we aren't any worse walking away from what we got... in fact I'd say we a probably better.