Confirmed Trade: [PIT/OTT/VGK] PART II (see OP)

NewAgeOutlaw

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I don't care if we have $10 mil in caps space or $2 mil in cap space, if another team wants to use it, they are going to pay for it. You say it's not his concern what Ottawa and Pittsburgh get out of it... quite frankly it should be... and he would be an idiot for it not have been.

As for what I think fair repayment would be, a 3rd from Ottawa and a 3rd for Pittsburgh, and seeing as Pittsburgh would still need us to take Reaves for it to work, the 4th the gave us too. And if Ottawa and Pittsburgh don't want to pay that price to use our ample ample cap space, good for them, they can find someone else to facilitate their trade because we aren't any worse walking away from what we got... in fact I'd say we a probably better.

So your argument boils down to that McPhee should have placed an absurd price on a small amount of cap space because Ottawa and Pitt having Vegas as a third party retaining a little salary is some sort of insult to the organization. 3 picks and Reaves for retaining a bit of salary is just an asinine suggestion.

McPhee's philosophy is to use cap space to acquire assets and picks. Using this philosophy, he has built a contending team and built for the future in 1 offseason. Now you call him an idiot because he used cap space to trade for an nhl player and a pick. Maybe you should think twice before saying such things.

Giving up a small fraction of his team's remaining cap space for an nhl regular and a pick is actually good asset management. They got 2 assets and they gave up nothing of value. A few million in cap space means nothing to a team in Vegas' situation.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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I don't care if we have $10 mil in caps space or $2 mil in cap space, if another team wants to use it, they are going to pay for it. You say it's not his concern what Ottawa and Pittsburgh get out of it... quite frankly it should be... and he would be an idiot for it not have been.

As for what I think fair repayment would be, a 3rd from Ottawa and a 3rd for Pittsburgh, and seeing as Pittsburgh would still need us to take Reaves for it to work, the 4th the gave us too. And if Ottawa and Pittsburgh don't want to pay that price to use our ample ample cap space, good for them, they can find someone else to facilitate their trade because we aren't any worse walking away from what we got... in fact I'd say we a probably better.

Do you people not read or what?

GMGM wanted Reaves and was pursuing him throughout the week. So instead of having to trade actual assets for him, he used cap space.

I don't understand how people are STILL failing to grasp this and think he was some throw in.
 

hangman005

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Do you people not read or what?

GMGM wanted Reaves and was pursuing him throughout the week. So instead of having to trade actual assets for him, he used cap space.

I don't understand how people are STILL failing to grasp this and think he was some throw in.
I can read and I fully understand what GMGM wanted, he got what he wanted. But I and many other hockey fans don't see that Reaves holds any value to the Golden Knights... our assessment of Reaves is different to that of GMGM. Where GMGM insisted Reaves be part of the deal, we would not have and chased value elsewhere. Had we agreed with GMGM assessment of Reaves this wouldn't be a problem, but he is seeing value where we don't, we see Reaves value of being no more than a cap dump for Pittsburgh... There are other teams out there who see value in Reaves because he fits they're play style... we are not one of them.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

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I can read and I fully understand what GMGM wanted, he got what he wanted. But I and many other hockey fans don't see that Reaves holds any value to the Golden Knights... our assessment of Reaves is different to that of GMGM. Where GMGM insisted Reaves be part of the deal, we would not have and chased value elsewhere. Had we agreed with GMGM assessment of Reaves this wouldn't be a problem, but he is seeing value where we don't, we see Reaves value of being no more than a cap dump for Pittsburgh... There are other teams out there who see value in Reaves because he fits they're play style... we are not one of them.

Ok, but in your post, you wanted the Pens to give up a third and then a fourth because Vegas was taking back Reaves... like it was a favor.

GMGM got the guy he was pursuing. It wasn't JR saying hey can you take him off our hands.

It was GMGM saying this is who I want.

Quite a big difference there.
 
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Jtown

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I heard on nhl radio today that the main reason why the Knights were involved was because the other team that was pursuing Brassard was Winnipeg and if the deal with Pitt fell through he was most likely going to the Jets. Vegas stepped in , got a little something, but did a good job of keeping a good player out of the west.
 

hangman005

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So your argument boils down to that McPhee should have placed an absurd price on a small amount of cap space because Ottawa and Pitt having Vegas as a third party retaining a little salary is some sort of insult to the organization. 3 picks and Reaves for retaining a bit of salary is just an asinine suggestion.

McPhee's philosophy is to use cap space to acquire assets and picks. Using this philosophy, he has built a contending team and built for the future in 1 offseason. Now you call him an idiot because he used cap space to trade for an nhl player and a pick. Maybe you should think twice before saying such things.

Giving up a small fraction of his team's remaining cap space for an nhl regular and a pick is actually good asset management. They got 2 assets and they gave up nothing of value. A few million in cap space means nothing to a team in Vegas' situation.
It's the price of doing business, we have cap space and you do not, so if you want to use it, it'll cost you. Just because we have ample cap space doesn't mean we should allow other teams to use it just because we have it. McPhee wanted Reaves which is why we got into this trade, but simply put I and many other hockey fans I know don't see the value in Reaves as a Golden Knight as McPhee does. So while McPhee asked for Reaves... we would not. So Ottawa and Pittsburgh want to use our cap space, yes I will ask for a third. If Pittsburgh still needs to get rid of Reaves or a similar salary to fit Brasard under the cap, yes I do want that 4th. If Pittsburgh and Ottawa don't like it, as I said they can look elsewhere for someone to facilitate their trade. I'm not going to lose any sleep over having cap space.
 

hangman005

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Ok, but in your post, you wanted the Pens to give up a third and then a fourth because Vegas was taking back Reaves... like it was a favor.

GMGM got the guy he was pursuing. It wasn't JR saying hey can you take him off our hands.

It was GMGM saying this is who I want.

Quite a big difference there.
I understand that, but in my scenario it was what I was asking and what I would do. I wouldn't have asked for Reaves to begin with, but from what I understand Pittsburgh would still need to lose his or a similar salary to fit Brasard under the cap, I'm just saying in that case if they want us to eat Reaves salary it would cost that 4th.

You may disagree with my assessment of Reaves, but I don't see value in him as a Golden Knight, so the only way I'm taking him is as a cap dump, and I'm getting paid for a cap dump.
 
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derriko

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That’s the thing I don’t think you are understanding. Our owner is a mega, mega rich dude that is over the moon enthusiastic about this franchise.

Vegas is going to be a cap team in the foreseeable future. Not in the next two years unless they go for Tavares or Karlsson / Doughty thereafter, but my point is that cap doesn’t matter in the short term.

If it wasn’t Vegas, it would be another team. It’s as simple as that.

Should they have gotten a 3rd + maybe a 6th or something like that instead of a 4th? I would agree with you there. But again, someone else would’ve stepped up in place and it’s arguable McPhee might’ve agreed to help Rutherford in the future because of the ED. I can respect that.
 

hangman005

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I heard on nhl radio today that the main reason why the Knights were involved was because the other team that was pursuing Brassard was Winnipeg and if the deal with Pitt fell through he was most likely going to the Jets. Vegas stepped in , got a little something, but did a good job of keeping a good player out of the west.
Again this premise is something else I disagree with GMGM on about this trade... I see more value in Brassard being with Winnipeg than not... we are going to see Winnipeg no earlier than the 3rd round and even with Brassard I don't see Winnipeg getting past Nashville, but maybe with Brasard Winnipeg wears down Nashville a whole lot more making it easier for us should we get to the conference finals.
 
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hangman005

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That’s the thing I don’t think you are understanding. Our owner is a mega, mega rich dude that is over the moon enthusiastic about this franchise.

Vegas is going to be a cap team in the foreseeable future. Not in the next two years unless they go for Tavares or Karlsson / Doughty thereafter, but my point is that cap doesn’t matter in the short term.

If it wasn’t Vegas, it would be another team. It’s as simple as that.

Should they have gotten a 3rd + maybe a 6th or something like that instead of a 4th? I would agree with you there. But again, someone else would’ve stepped up in place and it’s arguable McPhee might’ve agreed to help Rutherford in the future because of the ED. I can respect that.
It's not about saving money for the point of saving money, we can afford it I know. But this trade doesn't move the needle for me, we trade T.Lindberg for a 4th and take a player I see no value in for our team. There is nowhere near the amount of Value I'd need to care if they used another team to facilitate the trade.
 

WayneSid9987

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Sure it's been said already in this thread but getting MAF to LV took some convincing on JR's part(MAF had to waive his NTC and be sold on playing there the next few seasons). Think part of Vegas being in this one was not just to keep Brass out of the west but to do JR a solid after MAF has worked out so well for them.
The Reaves part was probably just a well, we have this or this to offer you as rental cap dumps? Which one would ya like to go with the 4th.
 
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I can read and I fully understand what GMGM wanted, he got what he wanted. But I and many other hockey fans don't see that Reaves holds any value to the Golden Knights... our assessment of Reaves is different to that of GMGM. Where GMGM insisted Reaves be part of the deal, we would not have and chased value elsewhere. Had we agreed with GMGM assessment of Reaves this wouldn't be a problem, but he is seeing value where we don't, we see Reaves value of being no more than a cap dump for Pittsburgh... There are other teams out there who see value in Reaves because he fits they're play style... we are not one of them.
Do you not trust Mr. McPhee by now? I understand that you should not have to pledge blind allegiance to dear leader George just because you are a VGK fan, but I would think the man has a lot of goodwill currency right now.

With my kings, I love the Stanley Cups associated with Dean Lombardi, but I understood it was time to move on.

I just figured maybe you fellas over there in Vegas will give George the benifit of the doubt these days. He was right about Vadim Shipachyov not being a fit, maybe he is similarly right about Ryan Reaves being a good fit.
 

Pirate Deadpool

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Do you not trust Mr. McPhee by now? I understand that you should not have to pledge blind allegiance to dear leader George just because you are a VGK fan, but I would think the man has a lot of goodwill currency right now.

With my kings, I love the Stanley Cups associated with Dean Lombardi, but I understood it was time to move on.

I just figured maybe you fellas over there in Vegas will give George the benifit of the doubt these days. He was right about Vadim Shipachyov not being a fit, maybe he is similarly right about Ryan Reaves being a good fit.


I give credit to the scouting staff, not GMGM. He did make some shrewd moves, but I highly doubt GMGM was the one that identified even half of the players picked in the expansion draft. He got great information from the scouting department. When he got hired, everyone laughed at Vegas because GMGM was known to be a terrible GM with the caps. He could put together good teams that wins in the regular season, but was POOR at making deals to put the caps over the top and couldn't win one ring under his watch.

Only after this hot start by vegas, GMGM has gotten a good reputation. Lots of teams have good regular seasons then stink the next year. I am happy that they are doing well, but almost everyone is having a career year and that can't be expected next year. If most of the players play to close to their career averages, then VGK is out of the playoffs. Time will tell about how good GMGM is in vegas. And when has he ever made a great or even good trade deadline deal for HIS team. He's always blundered trade deadline deals and helped the other team.

I fail to see which line Reaves plays on. Bellemare, Carpenter, and Nosek are playing outstanding for a 4th line. The 3rd line needs help, but not at winger. Eakin is the guy that needs to be replaced. I really see no fit for Reaves on the team. Vegas doesn't get pushed around. They have enough guys that will fight if necessary. Adding a goon was not needed. Reaves is by far the worst winger on the team and that includes Hyka who was just sent down.

Anyone who watches the knights play regularly, please tell me what line and what linemates he should be playing with? The 3rd and 4th lines get about 11 minutes each a game and Reaves plays a lot less than that. He's going to be a drag on whatever line he's on. This was an unneeded move by GMGM.

And if they go far, and let's say they make it to the cup finals. Which team would be the toughest one to beat? Jets with Brassard or the Pens with Brassard. I'd rather face the Jets with Brassard over the Pens with Brassard.

I don't really care about the compensation at this point. Everyone has a different value on what round pick Vegas should have gotten. My beef is that Vegas acquired a player that does not fit into their current playstyle and looks to be a bad fit. Vegas is not a soft team. They don't go looking for fights, but don't let teams bully them either. They didn't need Reaves. Sure there's goon teams out there that they could face, but they had no trouble with the kings and ducks. The blues gave them the most problems with their physical play, but playing Reaves won't change much for Vegas except to make them worse.
 
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hangman005

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Do you not trust Mr. McPhee by now? I understand that you should not have to pledge blind allegiance to dear leader George just because you are a VGK fan, but I would think the man has a lot of goodwill currency right now.

With my kings, I love the Stanley Cups associated with Dean Lombardi, but I understood it was time to move on.

I just figured maybe you fellas over there in Vegas will give George the benifit of the doubt these days. He was right about Vadim Shipachyov not being a fit, maybe he is similarly right about Ryan Reaves being a good fit.
It's not so much I don't trust him than every GM makes moves that don't work out, or are just plain awful. He still has a lot of goodwill but I think it is important to speak freely about things we don't like. We Golden Knights fans have a very long short history of doing that, like for example the name, it was a stupid name then and kinda still is now, but it has grown on us. To us being the Vegas Golden Knights losing the Las... that was stupid then and still kinda is now, but again it has grown on us. Chance our mascot was a stupid mascot, but now he's our stupid mascot.

Not everything GMGM touches is going to turn to gold, and I feel it's better to speak up about things we don't like, than operating in a vacuum. There are threads on certain boards on this site where dissenting opinions just plain are not allowed and that's something I hope never happens within the Vegas fandom.

I don't see the value GMGM see's in Reaves, and because of that I feel like this was a bad trade, and I am going to say whether our GM has made 1 good move, or a hundred in a row. At the end of the day though, I could very well be wrong, maybe this is another thing that GMGM touches that turns to gold, but I don't just see the value in not saying I think he could be wrong. He's never going to see this but still I think blind allegiance is always bad and staying silent and complacent is just as bad.
 
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TMLeafs18

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I think the biggest part of this deal for the Sens is getting a good goaltending prospect back. If they are going to rebuild they need to figure out that position.
 

JLo217

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Anyone else ready for Vegas to come down to earth next year? I’m rooting for them this year but can’t wait til the luster wears off and the praises of luck go into the wind.
 
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AquaticBirdman

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I heard on nhl radio today that the main reason why the Knights were involved was because the other team that was pursuing Brassard was Winnipeg and if the deal with Pitt fell through he was most likely going to the Jets. Vegas stepped in , got a little something, but did a good job of keeping a good player out of the west.

I'm livid if I'm a jets fan lol
 

Jaded-Fan

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Goodfellas-GMJR.gif
 

CrosbyMalkin

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Aug 7, 2005
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i like the trade but man pittsburgh has given up a lot of assets to end up with Brassard.

1st 2017, 1st 2018, 3rd 2019, 4th 2018, Gustavsson, Sundquist, Cole for 3rd 2018, Lindberg, Dunn and 40% Brassard

I hate when people can’t be honest and present things the right way. Either they are just ignorant and uninformed or intentionally a troll.

Let’s make this very simple about Reaves. The Pens gave up Sundqvist who could not even beat out Rowney for a starting spot the season before he was traded. Sundqvist was never going to be part of a Pens contender and he will be lucky to have a career as a 4th line player. The other part of the trade was the Pens dropped 20 spots in the draft. We then used Reaves and a 4th to get Vegas to take $2 million cap space for the Brassard contract.

I would do it all again to get $2 million in extra cap space. So for the extra advantage of $2 million more to spend than other teams we dropped 20 spots in the draft, Sundqvist, and a 4th round pick. I would gladly do it again tomorrow for another $2 million cap space. So if another team will give us $2 million more cap space for this year and next for us to move down 20 spots in the draft, a 4th round pick, and someone like Dea or Corrado I will gladly add another $2 million advantage for our team.

So how about putting the 2nd round pick which was 20 spots from the 1st round pick we gave up.

I love what we gave up for Brassard. The great thing about when the Pens trade for good player is that none of our prospects we give up have ever made a real impact. Go back and look at the major trades and how the prospects we gave up are doing. The next best player in the Hossa deal actually was Dupuis who we got in the deal. In the Kessel deal none of those prospects will ever make an impact near his worth. Since the Kessel trade we won the Cup both years he has been on the team and he scored almost as many points in those Cup runs as Crosby and Malkin. None of those prospects and picks would have even been a factor on our NHL team and non of them still would give even the fraction of the value Kessel has.

Same thing with what we gave up for Brassard. When would the player picked with that late 1st help the Pens? 5 years and a chance he never has NHL career. Pens have 23 and 22 year old goalies so no room for an impact from Gustevsson during our next 3 year window. Cole and Reaves are UFA’s after the season and neither was coming back. So we get a proven playoff producing Center for our next 2 playoff runs for very little in my opinion. In about 5 years the Pens will have to most likely do what the Rangers are doing now but I am fine with that. You go for it while your core is able to win Cups.
 

CrosbyMalkin

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Aug 7, 2005
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Do you people not read or what?

GMGM wanted Reaves and was pursuing him throughout the week. So instead of having to trade actual assets for him, he used cap space.

I don't understand how people are STILL failing to grasp this and think he was some throw in.

JR said in his presser that Reaves was a must in the deal or Vegas would not do it. So yes they wanted him badly and they got him and a 4th for nothing Because they are not using all the cap space anyways. People just can’t look at this fairly because they are upset how it helps Pens get a great asset they normally could not fit under the cap.

I think the deal was a win for all sides. Sens want to rebuild and they get a 1st and a goalie prospect they want and believe can be a future starter for them. They also can use Cole to get at least a 2nd and most likely more. Brassard is 30 and with only under contract for another year was not going to be part of the future for the Sens. Pens get a great playoff Center that has been his teams top Center on good teams like the 2015 Rangers and also 2016 Ranger team that had good records. Brassard was the teams 2nd leading point player during both those seasons. Now Brassard will play with Kessel on the Pens 3rd line giving us 3 1st lines.

All sides win in this deal for what they are trying to do. Vegas gets the player they want and a 4th for cap space they are not going to use, Sens get value of 1st and other assets that at minimum equal another 2 2nd picks but I believe even better than that for a player not in rebuilding plans, Pens get player for next 2 Cup runs at a 40% less cap hit.
 

stepdad gaary

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Dec 5, 2011
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I think the biggest part of this deal for the Sens is getting a good goaltending prospect back. If they are going to rebuild they need to figure out that position.

A really good one. Higher upside than Jarry. I think they were wise to roll the dice on him than settle for Jarry who is just closer to nhl ready.

I think the sens made out well here. Everyone did really. It's crazy that people are so mad about a trade where all 3 teams seem to get pretty good value in the trades.
 

Pirate Deadpool

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Mar 3, 2011
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That’s the thing I don’t think you are understanding. Our owner is a mega, mega rich dude that is over the moon enthusiastic about this franchise.

Vegas is going to be a cap team in the foreseeable future. Not in the next two years unless they go for Tavares or Karlsson / Doughty thereafter, but my point is that cap doesn’t matter in the short term.

If it wasn’t Vegas, it would be another team. It’s as simple as that.

Should they have gotten a 3rd + maybe a 6th or something like that instead of a 4th? I would agree with you there. But again, someone else would’ve stepped up in place and it’s arguable McPhee might’ve agreed to help Rutherford in the future because of the ED. I can respect that.

There's owners much richer than Foley in the NHL and other sports leagues and not all will spend money. I don't see Kroenke spending money on the avalanche and the other teams he owns (maybe on the arsenal?) and he makes Foley look poor. Foley is not the only rich sports franchise owner. Just because Foley has money doesn't mean he's going to spend to the cap. He might but it's no guarantee that he will. There could also be a big public fight with Foley soon with one of the businesses associated with T-Mobile amd the knights as they are owed a few million and haven't been paid in months. My friend is on the board of directors of that company and they have a suite that I sometimes get invited to and hear a lot of stuff that the public doesn't know about how Foley does business. I'm sure he will end up paying to avoid a lawsuit but as of now, he's not holding up his end of the agreement and hasn't paid them what they are owed. So you can stop worshipping Foley. He's not the richest owner in the NHL or even close to it and he isn't paying bills to companies he owes money to locally. I couldn't believe it at first but I've heard it from other people that are in the Vegas socialite community.
 

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