Phoenix CXXXIII: Colonel Shuffle's Last 'Ownership' Hill To Die On
- Thread starter Llama19
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Llama19
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So...those mystery investors where Barroway still wants to have control/majority over?
If...IF...someone would have wanted this franchise as a loss leader...it would have happened long ago...
However, I do not think there is another Foley-like investor that wants it as a vanity purchase...but as something that will actually make money...just not in this market...
Glacial
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- Jan 8, 2013
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It would have to be foreign investors because by now, everyone on the continent should be able to see the smoke column from the Coyotes' books. At this point, it should be towering up to the stratosphere like a Mount Pinatubo eruption. With enough time, smoke from the Coyotes' books should turn the sun Coyotes Red close to sunset and make the planet more suitable for outdoor games...
Llama19
Registered User
Maybe, Barroway needs to pitch this franchise...
not as a hockey team...but as art...
Buying a hockey team is like buying a piece of art.
You don’t do it to make a lot of money. You do it because you love it.
-- Matthew Hulsizer
I wonder if the former councillors and mayor of Glendale looking at this situation now, realize that Bettman/Daley took them for $50 million plus the golden subsidy lease? If they had stood up to Bettman back then, the team likely would have stayed and the league would be issuing threats like they have issued recently but they would still be playing in Glendale and the league would be covering losses like they are now. Where were all these posters, claiming that the team will never leave Arizona, back then? They should have stood up and voiced their opinions back when it mattered.
Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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Really.... well, someone should tell former tennis superstar John McEnroe that... just sold a painting apparently inspired by Charles Manson called Helter Skelter for over $10M US... only recently painted, 2007, artist still very much alive, for which he paid nowhere near close to.... the thing looking like something produced on a rainy afternoon, knocked out in a couple of hours by a bunch of 5yr olds in a Kindergarten Class... the lot of them suffering from OCD.... So yes Matthew, some people, lots in fact do buy art to make money...
... and... people who buy major league sports franchises, who actually have that kind of coin to begin with do the same, hedging short term losses against long term gains & tax write-off's with ever increasing franchise valuations.... installing real pro's to do their J.O.B.'s & leaving them alone to do them.... giving them the means & money to do so.... They do not install their Frat House drinking buddies in positions of authority... then set them up in a suite at the Renaissance Glendale with a 1976 IBM Selectric Typewriter and a 1986 Radio Shack fax machine... a couple of rolls of thermal paper for inbound... a few dozen flats of Genesee Cream Ale.... Texas Mickey's of Wild Turkey.... cases of Fred Sandfords Champipple & pilfered in flight miniatures....
And this guy married into money? Manages a billion dollar Hedge Fund? Bet his in-laws were/are real impressed.... And now its Andrews' turn at the wheel.... trunk full of whiskey.... a Fiance in the passenger seat less than half his age..... Paradise by the Dasboard Light.... Livin the dream. Mid-life crisis much? Seriously; what is Gary Bettman thinking, doing here.... Absolute insanity.... Sorry for the Rant... but some days, when I get to thinking about it, triggered by an old quote or whatever... pretty much lose it.
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They are playing the long game and want in on a pro franchise in a growing market. This is a rare opportunity to own a limited in number asset.
Agreed. Like I said, Coyotes aren't going anywhere. The losses aren't really an issue, if they were.....the Coyotes would have moved 10 years ago. I think they play the waiting game and see what the next US broadcast deal is worth, and in the meantime they work on moving to the east valley.
Not really that rare though. The team has been available to investors of that sort since it went into bankruptcy, years ago. So far the only people to step forward are woefully underfunded and are counting on the NHL to foot the bill
The change is the available money from Asia versus 5 or 10 years ago, and the interest to invest it in the US. The landscape has changed radically from an Asia investor perspective.Not really that rare though. The team has been available to investors of that sort since it went into bankruptcy, years ago. So far the only people to step forward are woefully underfunded and are counting on the NHL to foot the bill
You certainly raise an interesting possibility. I would love to be a fly on the wall at the first good old boys NHL BOG meeting when the Asian boys get a seat at the table. The look on the faces of those guys would be priceless...times are changing boys
Interesting dilemma for the league. Which would they rather have? Their good old boys club intact or a franchise in Arizona?
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Llama19
Registered User
I doubt the BOG cares too much about race or nationality.........All they care about is that their check doesn't bounceYou certainly raise an interesting possibility. I would love to be a fly on the wall at the first good old boys NHL BOG meeting when the Asian boys get a seat at the table. The look on the faces of those guys would be priceless...times are changing boys
Well, based on the idea that this is such a rare opportunity, I wonder what the hold up is?
From what we have heard in the past, the BOG certainly does care who they let sit at the table. If money was all they cared about BallSilly would be at the table right now
From what we have heard there was an opportunity for tribe investment as well, but so far, nothing on that front. Rumour had it that at the time, the board was not too keen on the idea.
Basically its been a few years of looking for a way to finance the new arena, yet nothing. Either this is not such a slam dunk investment as the last few postings would like us to believe or the NHL BOG are not too keen on the type of investment being offered.
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The money has been there the past 5-10 years from Asia. It's just they seem to prefer to invest in Soccer/Football in Europe. Perhaps they prefer more global games? Timberwolves have a minority Chinese owner and the Brooklyn Nets could be fully owned by a Chinese owner by 2021 if he chooses to exercise his option to buy out Prokhorov.
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
This whole current situation seems like a time when we should all stop and re-collect our thoughts on the Coyotes.
A team in Las Vegas killed it in a season ticket drive for a potential team, then Seattle absolutely murdered their season ticket drive in a similarly sized city.
The difference between Seattle/Las Vegas and Phoenix is hope.
Getting a new arena in a huge media market is enormous, and while I think it won’t happen with Barroway, there’s an opportunity for someone with real money to get into a huge US media market for the price of a cheap arena in the right place.
I’d go as far to say that if the powers that be said they were moving the Coyotes to Houston and Phoenix would be an immediate candidate for a team with an arena in downtown Phoenix, Tempe, or perhaps Scottsdale, they’d have the same ticket drive results as Las Vegas and have a decent STH base ready to watch decent hockey.
People in Arizona don’t dislike hockey, they dislike the Coyotes, IMO. I understand it. The coyotes suck, and have for the vast majority of the time they’ve spent in Arizona.
A team in Las Vegas killed it in a season ticket drive for a potential team, then Seattle absolutely murdered their season ticket drive in a similarly sized city.
The difference between Seattle/Las Vegas and Phoenix is hope.
Getting a new arena in a huge media market is enormous, and while I think it won’t happen with Barroway, there’s an opportunity for someone with real money to get into a huge US media market for the price of a cheap arena in the right place.
I’d go as far to say that if the powers that be said they were moving the Coyotes to Houston and Phoenix would be an immediate candidate for a team with an arena in downtown Phoenix, Tempe, or perhaps Scottsdale, they’d have the same ticket drive results as Las Vegas and have a decent STH base ready to watch decent hockey.
People in Arizona don’t dislike hockey, they dislike the Coyotes, IMO. I understand it. The coyotes suck, and have for the vast majority of the time they’ve spent in Arizona.
Llama19
Registered User
Cheap arena?
In this market?
Plus...these investors will also have to pay into the debt that this franchise already has in this market...
I do not see these two things happening in this market...
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
"This market" is the key to everything.
The Coyotes were brought to the market at a time when granted expansion franchises took a year plus to get 10,000 season ticket holders. The last two new markets have taken 6 weeks and 12 minutes respectively. The issue is that the Coyotes freaking stink, and have stunk for the better part of two decades. The fact that people have to drive out of their way to watch crappy hockey is the real issue.
I think a decent ownership group can make the Phoenix market work. If the Phoenix situation happened in Raleigh, the team's gone. The market is the prize, and the ability to ice a decent team is the project.
Hell, I think they could make it work in Glendale is they had the ability to put a decent team on the ice consistently.
Llama19
Registered User
"THIS MARKET" has already lost...
And...I do not think there is anything left to find...another than another location...out of state...
If your theories are correct and GB honestly believes there is gold in Arizona why did he opt to have such poor undercapitalized ownership? He had to know that the Ice Clowns and Andy Barroway were nothing more than amateur professional sports owners. Go back to the early days of this thread and you will see that everyone knew that Tony leblanc and AB were nothing more than a couple of jock sniffers. They did not come up through the hockey ranks earning their stripes like many NHL owners. Those owners who did not have the experience, but had the money, hired professional people to run their businesses, not the case for the Coyotes. As for the market, you claim the arena location and poor management are the culprits. Give them a new arena and better management and then maybe people will come? The problem with that theory is obvious, the train left the station 20 years ago and those interested in catching a ride are going to have to do so with the train still in motion. No real time to completely rebrand this organization as something new! Point being, GB has utterly and completely messed up this organization by allowing these carpet baggers to run it. He can`t be that dumb as to think that these fellows had a chance without the proper resources?
cbcwpg
Registered User
The only thing "cheap" about a new arena in downtown Phoenix, Tempe, or perhaps Scottsdale are the owners who don't want to pay for it out of their own pockets. IIRC LeBlanc's last arena price he threw out was ~$400,000,000. Getting some place to build an new arena isn't the problem... the problem is getting someone else to pay for it. Barroway could be building one tomorrow if he was willing to pay for it.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
Hmmmm....
“The market lost.....”
Yet participation in hockey keeps growing in the state.
Yep... that makes logical sense. If you’re agenda thinks that way.
“The market lost.....”
Yet participation in hockey keeps growing in the state.
Yep... that makes logical sense. If you’re agenda thinks that way.
Hmmmm....
“The market lost.....”
Yet participation in hockey keeps growing in the state.
Yep... that makes logical sense. If you’re agenda thinks that way.
The market he is referring to are those willing to give up the time and pay the price to go to GRA as opposed to bringing your pee wee to the Ice garden.
Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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.... ya, but youth & Sun Devil hockeys' winning, growing... from Kinder programs to House League, Tier 1&2, High School Hockey... Cant speak to the game at the amateur levels with programs for low income families though I do know those outdoor DEK Hockey facilities theyve been installing in conjunction with the NHL do offer inexpensive programs for kids. With youth hockey your still looking at what could be major costs in time & money if your kids got an appetite & aptitude for it. Not cheap. Its all still money spent on the game though which is TL's point so no, the game isnt losing, its gaining & for sure you can attribute much of that to the Coyotes presence in the market & the contributions theyve made, continue to make to its growth.
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