Proposal: Philly - Flames

[Tripod]

Tkachuk
For
Konecny + Patrick

Tkachuk is a bit younger and has been the more productive player. He lead the team in scoring, from the right side last year. Hes also more expensive but his contract matches up with Giroux.

The Flames are short NHL caliber bodies to fill out the top 6. So far we've basically been running 2 man units, filled out with waiver level player. I'm not sure I'd even do this, with the risks associated with Patrick, but I thought it could be interesting for both clubs.

TK has closed the production gap though. Since the start of last year, they are almost even in production with the edge going to TK.

And MT contract matching up with Giroux is a bad thing, as the Flyers will want to keep Giroux. MT will jump from 7 million to 8-9....while TK will still be at 5.6 for another 3 years.

With Konecny being locked into such a low cap hit, I don't see him moving at all even though since the bubble last year, he has looked "off".

 

[Tripod]

As for Bennett.....he would not play in the Flyers top 9.

Giroix Couturier Konecny
Lindblom Hayes Voracek
JVR Patrick Farabee
Raffl Laughton NAK

Even by trading Patrick(which they won't do with Frost out hurt), Laughton would be the #3 C and Bennett would be on the 4th line. The Flyers have, at min, 10 forwards better than Bennett.

Hell, Bennett has 3 points this year in 15 games.....Raffl has 6 and Aube Kubel has 5 in 14 games each. Bennett might not be a top 12 forward on the Flyers. And to add, both Raffl and NAK out produced Bennett last year too.

 

[Sparky93]

TK has closed the production gap though. Since the start of last year, they are almost even in production with the edge going to TK.

And MT contract matching up with Giroux is a bad thing, as the Flyers will want to keep Giroux. MT will jump from 7 million to 8-9....while TK will still be at 5.6 for another 3 years.

With Konecny being locked into such a low cap hit, I don't see him moving at all even though since the bubble last year, he has looked "off".

Giroux will be 35 years old, in the first year of his contract and he's already gotten his big payday. I think its likely he gets a 2-3 year, retire a Flyer deal, in the 5-6 million dollar range. Thats if theres not a significant drop off in play next year. So yes, I do think the contracts lining up is a benefit. That being said, I understand not wanting to mess with something that's working and the risk would probably be to great, from a Flames perspective.

 

[Flyer lurker]

You can pay a team to take a contract off your hands. JVR is playing better then he has his entire career, but unless he scores, he's worthless. I'd rather get rid of his contract at the end of the season no matter what to get that savings back. As of now, Hart doesn't deserve a big raise and realistically Frost could be move to get a top 4 defenseman with some term. Trading JVR is the key of the off-season ( or have someone take Gostisbehere and his deal)

Hart is getting a legit raise. Even if its a 2 year bridge deal you are paying at least 4m. If you are "dumping" JVR then you better have a good plan. For example dumping JVR and signing Hamilton. Sure I can go along with that. But dumping JVR for Bennett? Easy pass. JVR is streaky. We all know this. But good streaks do carry a team. Without JVR this year as poorly the Flyers have been outshot we wouldn't be .500 with minus JVR. If someone takes Ghost you are still going to have to pay someone 4-5.5m to replace him. If plan goes Ghost leaves in ED and Flyers sign Savard I can live with that.

If you are adding salary to this team its not for depth forward. Its either for star f (aka Johnny Hockey) or more likely its for a d-man.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

2019/20 Stats, complete 200' games and years of control don't support that. Once those are factored in, I wouldn't trade Konency for Gaudreau and Bennett if I was Philly.

So a career worst year vs a career best? Yeah that doesnt sound like a cherry pick.

 

[CraigsList]

Don’t really see the Flyers as a trading partner unless JVR is flipped

 

[ted2019]

Hart is getting a legit raise. Even if its a 2 year bridge deal you are paying at least 4m. If you are "dumping" JVR then you better have a good plan. For example dumping JVR and signing Hamilton. Sure I can go along with that. But dumping JVR for Bennett? Easy pass. JVR is streaky. We all know this. But good streaks do carry a team. Without JVR this year as poorly the Flyers have been outshot we wouldn't be .500 with minus JVR. If someone takes Ghost you are still going to have to pay someone 4-5.5m to replace him. If plan goes Ghost leaves in ED and Flyers sign Savard I can live with that.

If you are adding salary to this team its not for depth forward. Its either for star f (aka Johnny Hockey) or more likely its for a d-man.

I would go after Hamilton.

 

[YP44]

I like Bennett but do not see how he fits into the Flyers depth.

 

[Tripod]

Giroux will be 35 years old, in the first year of his contract and he's already gotten his big payday. I think its likely he gets a 2-3 year, retire a Flyer deal, in the 5-6 million dollar range. Thats if theres not a significant drop off in play next year. So yes, I do think the contracts lining up is a benefit. That being said, I understand not wanting to mess with something that's working and the risk would probably be to great, from a Flames perspective.

The whole point is that Konecny will be at 5.6 million for 5 years vs Tkachuck at 7 for 2...then 8-10 afterwards.....and TK is producing just as well the last year+. I would take MT with cap hits being equal, but not given the difference in cap hits the next 5 years. So then obviously not ADDING Patrick to TK for MT.

 

[Tripod]

So a career worst year vs a career best? Yeah that doesnt sound like a cherry pick.

In fairness, it is the most recent sample as well.

But again, age and contract status can't be ignored either. Gaudreau is better...but also older and more expensive....and will be getting a big raise sooner than TK.

All info matters.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

In fairness, it is the most recent sample as well.

But again, age and contract status can't be ignored either. Gaudreau is better...but also older and more expensive....and will be getting a big raise sooner than TK.

All info matters.

Yeah but my original post was this

Gaudreau is a fair bit better than Konecny

 

[blankall]

Tkachuk
For
Konecny + Patrick

Tkachuk is a bit younger and has been the more productive player. He lead the team in scoring, from the right side last year. Hes also more expensive but his contract matches up with Giroux.

The Flames are short NHL caliber bodies to fill out the top 6. So far we've basically been running 2 man units, filled out with waiver level player. I'm not sure I'd even do this, with the risks associated with Patrick, but I thought it could be interesting for both clubs.

The Flames are not short bodies for the top 6. They are short impact players, they've been running 3 lines in a 1A/1b/1c style. Having more, but lower end, top players is a bad idea.

The Flames could easily return to:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

The problem is that first line isn't playing that well, and the coach has decide the only solution is to constantly blender the lines between three lines.

As Nolan isn't playing better than Mangiapane right now, I don't see how this move improves the Flames. The difference between Nolan and Mangiapane, certainly doesn't make up for the loss of Tkachuk.

 

[Sparky93]

The Flames are not short bodies for the top 6. They are short impact players, they've been running 3 lines in a 1A/1b/1c style. Having more, but lower end, top players is a bad idea.

The Flames could easily return to:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane

The problem is that first line isn't playing that well, and the coach has decide the only solution is to constantly blender the lines between three lines.

As Nolan isn't playing better than Mangiapane right now, I don't see how this move improves the Flames. The difference between Nolan and Mangiapane, certainly doesn't make up for the loss of Tkachuk.

Except we haven't run those lines all year and that doesn't appear to changing. Even if we did revert back to those lines, that would still leave "12 point" Sam Bennett anchoring the 3rd line. While rebounding, after missing the entire season, he's still a significant upgrade on Sam. Not to mention, TK is 8 months older than Tkachuk, matched his points last year and is out producing this year, while being locked up to a much more manageable deal.

 

[FlyguyOX]

To Philly:

Sam Bennett
Calgary 2020 2nd


To Calgary:

Nolan Patrick

What a shit deal for Philly lmaoooo

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Gaudreau is a fair bit better than Konecny

He’s only got 1 year remaining on his contract though. Pretty sure Philly passes on this as they should.

 

[biturbo19]

I can kinda see the thinking here, but i think the underlying reasoning is ultimately sorta the reason it doesn’t work.

ie. The only way I think this makes sense for Philly, is if they fear Patrick’s injuries/migraines are either going to continually plague him, or keep him from ever realizing any more of his potential.

In which case...if the team that’s got the most insight into his situation is looking to eject on Patrick’s upside in favour of a change of scenery middle-6er case like Bennett and a lottery ticket, I’d think the Flames would be wary as well.

It really comes down the the fact you can easily point to an excuse as to why Patrick’s career hasn’t got on a roll due to health issues. Whereas Bennett has been largely healthy with plenty of opportunity, just hasn’t shown what was expected offensively. So a deal swapping these two...effectively just comes down to how likely you think Patrick is to overcome those issues or not. In which case, I don’t see the Flames wanting to bet against the house. And if Philly is willing to do the deal...that’s what it’d amount to. If not...there’s no deal and Philly keeps Patrick.

 

[Tripod]

The Flyers have a better version of Bennett in Scott Laughton. They would be better off just re-signing Laughton to a deal, and trading Patrick for a better pick than to do Bennett + 2nd.

Simple asset mgt.

 

[tictactoe]

Philly should stick with Patrick.

 

[1865]

So a career worst year vs a career best? Yeah that doesnt sound like a cherry pick.

Konecny was 22 years old, it's harsh to call that a cherry pick of his best year. It's just what he is.

 

[Limeyjim]

I doubt that the Flyers will do anything during this weird season. Just getting a healthy team on the ice is their main concern. Letting a guy go who was one of their top draft picks in the past decade is not a good move for any team. I still have hope that Nolan Patrick will turn out to be a top player for this team.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Konecny was 22 years old, it's harsh to call that a cherry pick of his best year. It's just what he is.

Maybe we should look at Gaudreau's 22 year old season? You know, when he got 78 points

 

[Tripod]

How about keeping it on topic since the offer was Bennett + 2nd for Patrick.

Bennett was benched last night.

As I said before, Bennett would not be in the Flyers top 9 for sure and very likely not in the top 12 since with a healthy lineup, he would need to be better than:

Raffl- Laughton- Aube Kubel

And he hasn't been better than any of them the last year. So yeah, 13th forward at 2+ million. Not needed at all.

 

[Nanuuk]

Young Nolan would be better off playing with any other team other than Calgary, or Denver. I'm glad he seems to have his migraines under control, but I think he see a quick return to them in Calgary. I've suffered from them for about 40 years, although not so much now that I'm older.

I think the Flames wouldn't go for this trade because of his history.

 

[Perennial]

To Philly: Gaudreau, Bennett

To Calgary: JVR, Patrick, 2021 1st