Player Discussion Phillip Danault II: 2nd C? edition

[Belial]

Well not that long ago Eller had 25 ESP in 46 games which works out to 45 over 82 games. Yet not many are willing to say he's more then a 3rd line center.

Pffff... Wasn't he supposed to explode this season and prove everybody wrong and show that he's more than a 3rd line center playing for an offensive powerhouse in Washington? What happened there?

 

[MXD]

Well not that long ago Eller had 25 ESP in 46 games which works out to 45 over 82 games. Yet not many are willing to say he's more then a 3rd line center.

That mostly brings us to the need to repeat to confirm.

 

[Sorinth]

Reasonable.

Still, you'll agree with me that asking Danault to repeat his 40 points-despite-barely-any-PP performance without playing with Top-6ers is basically setting him up to fail to meet expectations, due to unresonable expectations to begin with.

And then you'll tell me that there's a gap between "Elite players" and "Non Top-6ers", and you'll probably be right, too.

Without playing with top liners or getting PP time, yes. I would expect around 30 point from a someone with top-6 talent. But I doubt Danault plays a third line role with third line linemates.

 

[De Montreal]

How many 3rd line centers can you name me that were able to get 37 points at EV this season?

yeah he's right there with Barkov, Mikko Koivu, Anisimov, Hayes, Rask.

He had more even strenght points than Joe Thornton, Sean Couturier, Travis Zajac, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Elias Lindholm...

Danault is good. Great 3rd liner. Will be able to hold his own on the 2nd but he's not ideal.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

That mostly brings us to the need to repeat to confirm.

I hope he improves. Because 40 points that's mostly a hot streak with two great wingers and a brutally bad playoffs doesn't make him good. It makes him trade bait.

Without playing with top liners or getting PP time, yes. I would expect around 30 point from a someone with top-6 talent. But I doubt Danault plays a third line role with third line linemates.

Yeah, he's going to be shoehorned into a top-6 role and look not-bad while squandering chance after chance. We saw it with other undertalented or undercapable players in the top6 - like Plekanec (later years) and Desharnais.

Opportunity cost of playing such mediocrity is higher than people think. 37 even strength points when the moon is waxing or whatever other arbitrary paradigm means dickall if he's Simply Not Good Enough (Yet).

 

[Doc McKenna]

What the f are you talking about. Damn, how miserable it is.
Read my post again and tell me where I said Danault is a c1. Or where did I talked about Drouin, or Therrien, or DD?
And Who Is WE exactly? Your gang? You told something to me? Are you sure?

Lol what the f is that.

You called anyone that didn't agree with you

Yeah, instead of being excited about a young promising player who just played a great first full NHL season at center, they even try hard to downgrade him. Simply unbelievable. Probably Just because he is an amazing grab from bergevin. We have definitely the most ridiculous and ignorant online fan base.

I bolded it last time, I am bolding it again. You are calling other ignorant while your positions are just as much so to many of us. Only we are polite enough to not call names.

 

[Doc McKenna]

How many 3rd line centers can you name me that were able to get 37 points at EV this season?

How many 3rd line centers play with 120+ points on their wings?

 

[Scriptor]

yeah he's right there with Barkov, Mikko Koivu, Anisimov, Hayes, Rask.

He had more even strenght points than Joe Thornton, Sean Couturier, Travis Zajac, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Elias Lindholm...

Danault is good. Great 3rd liner. Will be able to hold his own on the 2nd but he's not ideal.

Yeah, Draisaitl would be much better as a 2nd line C. Too bad we don't have McDavid as a first line C

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Personally I like the Drouin trade, but I can certainly see why people have concerns about him. His ES production hasn't increased in 3 years, his breakout came purely from the PP. He's a headcase. He's going to be propped up by the French media because he's the great French hope which will likely get to his head.

Yet you're dismissing these dissenting opinions because most posters are apparently anti-MB. Well guess what there are also a lot of very valid reasons for people to be anti-MB, he's incompetent. It doesn't change the fact that he's on occasion made a good move, but it's also not that surpising that on a 1 for 1 trade there will be people for/against it. The players are obviously close enough in value otherwise they wouldn't have been traded for each other.

this isn't what I was saying.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Without playing with top liners or getting PP time, yes. I would expect around 30 point from a someone with top-6 talent. But I doubt Danault plays a third line role with third line linemates.

Danault got 10 ES points in 35 games as a bottom sixer, including 13 games on the 4th line.

He got 27 ES points in 47 games as a top sixer.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Danault got 10 ES points in 35 games as a bottom sixer, including 13 games on the 4th line.

He got 27 ES points in 47 games as a top sixer.

So where does this .47 ppg number come from? That is .35PPG right there. I keep hearing he was producing the same on our bottom 6 as with the top 6.

 

[Belial]

So where does this .47 ppg number come from? That is .35PPG right there. I keep hearing he was producing the same on our bottom 6 as with the top 6.

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov 37GP 16P .43 ppg

Pacioretty-Danault-Gallagher 8GP 5P .62 ppg

Pacioretty-Danault-Shaw 5GP 3P .60 ppg

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw 8GP 6P .75 ppg

Danault-Mitchell-Flynn 13GP 6P .46 ppg

 

[76]

You called anyone that didn't agree with you


I bolded it last time, I am bolding it again. You are calling other ignorant while your positions are just as much so to many of us. Only we are polite enough to not call names.

It's my opinion of our online fan base. Sorry if it hurts you.
If I would called anyone that I disagree with on this board I would lose my life. I'm ok with opposite opinions and debates as long as it's part of smart and interesting hockey talks.

You jumped on my post at first and answered me a very confusing message.

You seem to know me well but I'm sorry, I don't know you. What are my positions you are talking about and for which you think I'm ignorant?
That Danault had a great first full NHL season at center and has c2 50pts+ potential?

 

[Link67]

Danault is better suited based on his skill set and what he showed last season to center the second line than anyone we got. He might not belong on a top line but he can certainly be an effective 2C with a two way game and 40 - 50 point potential.

 

[get25]

How many 3rd line centers can you name me that were able to get 37 points at EV this season?

That is the point.
He can handle a top-6 and bring defense.

For PP, you can bring other players.
Best would be to see him able to play on PP.

3 more EVP would make him top-50 in the league (among forwards, not center).
Of those 50, only 30 are centers.
So he is basically a top-40 among centers in EVP.

He is also 72th among forwards in EVP which clearly makes him top-90.
So there is 2.5 players per team and 1.3 centers per team who scored more than 37 EVP.

Well not that long ago Eller had 25 ESP in 46 games which works out to 45 over 82 games. Yet not many are willing to say he's more then a 3rd line center.

Not that long ago was 2012-13...

So basically, you have not found anyone else in the last 4 years.
Plus doing a projection over a season is just numbers.
You have not proof that Eller would continue at that pace.
But the following four years show us what Eller can do.

But we also need to go deeper in your comments.
Who is going to be our 2 center?
For me Danault is just fine but maybe your prefer Plekanec?

We can always put Plekanec, McCarron or Shaw to center the second PP unit.

 

[SakuKoivu11]

I personally do not think Danault is a top 6 forward. He's got good speed and can score once a while. He's better suited as a 3rd line center. Because we lack in top center which is why we see Danault getting top 6 minutes. Plekanec was a 2nd line center but he's fallen off the chart and is now an overpaid 3rd line center.

 

[OldCraig71]

I personally do not think Danault is a top 6 forward. He's got good speed and can score once a while. He's better suited as a 3rd line center. Because we lack in top center which is why we see Danault getting top 6 minutes. Plekanec was a 2nd line center but he's fallen off the chart and is now an overpaid 3rd line center.

Against weaker competition his speed and defensive awareness make him a great third line center on any team in this league, he is however not 1st line material, I like this player and maybe feel he could be a modern version of Carbo and that would be great, he lacks the top end talent to be higher than that.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov 37GP 16P .43 ppg

Pacioretty-Danault-Gallagher 8GP 5P .62 ppg

Pacioretty-Danault-Shaw 5GP 3P .60 ppg

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw 8GP 6P .75 ppg

Danault-Mitchell-Flynn 13GP 6P .46 ppg

Danault's lowest PPG is with the top line while everyone says that it's the reason he got so many points.

Goes to show that playing on the top line with Patch and Radulov is not all flowers, cinnamon buns and roses... With that position comes a lot of defensive responsibilities, harder match-ups, etc. Not to mention playing with Pacioretty means you have to do all the dirty work cuz he sure as hell ain't going into corners or in front of the net.

EDIT:

Poor Drouin and Julien. Patch has already repeatedly cried about playing with him (Drouin). Watch him pout if he doesn't get his way...

 

[LaP]

Danault's lowest PPG is with the top line while everyone says that it's the reason he got so many points.

Who says that? I've spent the last 2 months saying specifically that he did not do a good job on the 1st line. Everyone know he was on fire on the 3rd and 4th at the beginning of the season.

When you increase TOI and responsibilities of a player it doesn't always result in an increase of production.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

How many 3rd line centers play with 120+ points on their wings?

As opposed to the dozens of centers who outscored Danault 5v5 playing with worse players, and half the year on the bottom 6..... oh wait...

1 Connor McDavid 71
2 Mark Scheifele 65
3 Sidney Crosby 64
4 Nicklas Backstrom 51
5 Leon Draisaitl 50
6 Ryan Getzlaf 50
7 Evgeni Malkin 49
8 Auston Matthews 48
9 Eric Staal 47
10 Charlie Coyle 47
11 John Tavares 46
12 Mikael Granlund 45
13 Joe Pavelski 45
14 Evgeny Kuznetsov 45
15 Nazem Kadri 44
16 Tyler Seguin 43
17 Jeff Carter 43
18 Jonathan Toews 41
19 Vincent Trocheck 41
20 Mitch Marner 40
21 Sean Monahan 40
22 David Krejci 40
23 Bo Horvat 40
24 Rickard Rakell 39
25 Ryan Kesler 38
26 Kyle Turris 38
27 Aleksander Barkov 38
28 Phillip Danault 37
29 Tyler Bozak 37
30 Nathan MacKinnon 37
31 Artem Anisimov 37
32 Ryan Johansen 37
33 Alexander Wennberg 36

 

[BaseballCoach]

As opposed to the dozens of centers who outscored Danault 5v5 playing with worse players, and half the year on the bottom 6..... oh wait...

1 Connor McDavid 71
2 Mark Scheifele 65
3 Sidney Crosby 64
4 Nicklas Backstrom 51
5 Leon Draisaitl 50
6 Ryan Getzlaf 50
7 Evgeni Malkin 49
8 Auston Matthews 48
9 Eric Staal 47
10 Charlie Coyle 47
11 John Tavares 46
12 Mikael Granlund 45
13 Joe Pavelski 45
14 Evgeny Kuznetsov 45
15 Nazem Kadri 44
16 Tyler Seguin 43
17 Jeff Carter 43
18 Jonathan Toews 41
19 Vincent Trocheck 41
20 Mitch Marner 40
21 Sean Monahan 40
22 David Krejci 40
23 Bo Horvat 40
24 Rickard Rakell 39
25 Ryan Kesler 38
26 Kyle Turris 38
27 Aleksander Barkov 38
28 Phillip Danault 37
29 Tyler Bozak 37
30 Nathan MacKinnon 37
31 Artem Anisimov 37
32 Ryan Johansen 37
33 Alexander Wennberg 36

This is the Habs forum. As several posters here have stressed, we need to raise our standard. We want to be in the top 10 teams every year, at the VERY MINIMUM. Even that standard is iffy. We actually should aim for top contender status.

To assure top-10 status, we need a TOP-10 center for our first line, a center ranked between 11 and 20 for our second line, and a center ranked between 21 and 30 for our third line.

By this standard, Danault at #28 is a barely acceptable third liner, which matches the assessment of many people here.

So I guess they are being logical after all.

Note this standard only gets us to top 10 status. If we want to be a top contender for the Cup, the most sure way to get there is to have the #1, #3 and #5 or 6 centers in the league on our team.

And of course getting the far and away best defenceman in the league, PK Subban, back.

That should do it.

Maybe. Assuming Carey Price does not get hurt.

 

[Beige Van]

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov 37GP 16P .43 ppg

Pacioretty-Danault-Gallagher 8GP 5P .62 ppg

Pacioretty-Danault-Shaw 5GP 3P .60 ppg

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw 8GP 6P .75 ppg

Danault-Mitchell-Flynn 13GP 6P .46 ppg

That's only 71 games. He played all 82. Where did he play the other 11 games?

 

[MXD]

I mean, if Nashville just gave 4.1M to Bonino, who is barely 4th Center material, surely they'll accept a Subban for Plekanec swap, since Bonino needs some support.

 

[Belial]

That's only 71 games. He played all 82. Where did he play the other 11 games?

All over the place, that's why I didn't include those 11 games.He got 4 points in those 11 games.

Carr-Mitchell-Danault 2GP
Byron-Danault-Gallagher 3GP
Byron-Danault-Shaw 3GP

And some games he played with different linemates during the same game.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Who says that? I've spent the last 2 months saying specifically that he did not do a good job on the 1st line. Everyone know he was on fire on the 3rd and 4th at the beginning of the season.

When you increase TOI and responsibilities of a player it doesn't always result in an increase of production.

Everyone but you apparently !

Have you not read the million posts crediting Danault's overall point totals to his linemates Radulov and Patch ?

Of course Danault's ppg would decrease on top line. The increase in competition against is a greater effect than the upgrade in linemates he plays with. It doesn't mean he played worse on the top line. It just means it's harder to score and play a good D game facing hard match-ups.