Player Discussion Phillip Danault: from C to shining C Edition

[BigDaddyLurch]

Did you just call Danault good?

Danault is good at what he does, the issue with Danault is that he believes, rightly or wrongly, that he's better at aspects of the game that aren't his "specialty"...

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

you must see that your post contains so many what if scenarios. we don’t need to trade a sure asset in danault to make room for an unproven talent. gotta give danault the benefit of the doubt for all he’s done for the club. let these young players force the canadiens hand not the other way around

Wait what unproven player is replacing him or taking use of the room he leaves? Caufield would be replacing Byron which I have no problem with. Dvorak would be replacing danault. Hes younger, has more offensive upside, is defensively responsible and very good at faceoffs. He's also signed for 4 years at 4.5ish which will be less than whatever danault thinks he's worth and will probably get in free agency. And the Habs have 14 picks this year in a relatively weak draft

 

[26Mats]

Danault is good at what he does, the issue with Danault is that he believes, rightly or wrongly, that he's better at aspects of the game that aren't his "specialty"...

I'm a Danault supporter. I just didn't think the poster I was replying to is.

Having said that, I think Phil is asking for too much if reports are true that he turned down 5M AAV on a long term deal - and he's going to have to get moving if he wants to get paid.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I'm a Danault supporter. I just didn't think the poster I was replying to is.

Having said that, I think Phil is asking for too much if reports are true that he turned down 5M AAV on a long term deal - and he's going to have to get moving if he wants to get paid.

I really don't think there are any "Danault Haters" out there; just "No Danault in the Top 6" people; hell, I'm one of them...if PD just concentrated on being the best #3C in the League, he'd be golden...

 

[26Mats]

I really don't think there are any "Danault Haters" out there; just "No Danault in the Top 6" people; hell, I'm one of them...if PD just concentrated on being the best #3C in the League, he'd be golden...

I meant it in jest for that poster in particular...

Now that Suzuki, Anderson, and Toffoli are our leading scorers, and dominate the powerplay, we may soon see the Suzuki and KK lines as being considered as the first two lines and the Tatar-Danault-Gallagher line as the 3rd line.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I meant it in jest for that poster in particular...

Now that Suzuki, Anderson, and Toffoli are our leading scorers, and dominate the powerplay, we may soon see the Suzuki and KK lines as being considered as the first two lines and the Tatar-Danault-Gallagher line as the 3rd line.

...as it should be...the real question is if Danault will accept that or not, cuz he walks for nothing at the end of the year if he doesn't accept it...and Bergevin can't let that happen to us again...

 

[26Mats]

...as it should be...the real question is if Danault will accept that or not, cuz he walks for nothing at the end of the year if he doesn't accept it...and Bergevin can't let that happen to us again...

Well, if Jake Evans can show he's ready to be a 3c, I'm beginning to be ok with it.

I mean, if Danault can't produce he doesn't have that much trade value. But we'll see how things keep going - are we going to keep winning even if Danault isn't producing? Will Danault start producing and show he's worth the money he's asking for?

I still think in Danault's mind, he wants to play with players like Tatar and Gallagher. So, if he's playing with them, but they're being out produced, I don't think he'll have a problem with his role in his own mind. I think he more had a problem with playing with Lehkonen and Byron - as any player that wants an offensive role should, imo. I was decrying how much KK, Domi, and Suzuki got stuck with those two last year.

So, I think Danault can accept the role of playing with Gallagher and Tatar, but not necessarily getting first line minutes if the other two lines are out performing his line. And so, I think the real problem in bringing him back will be the cap hit. If Berg is going to budge over 5M AAV, Danault better produce - including in the playoffs - something he's never done before.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Well, if Jake Evans can show he's ready to be a 3c, I'm beginning to be ok with it.

I mean, if Danault can't produce he doesn't have that much trade value. But we'll see how things keep going - are we going to keep winning even if Danault isn't producing? Will Danault start producing and show he's worth the money he's asking for?

I still think in Danault's mind, he wants to play with players like Tatar and Gallagher. So, if he's playing with them, but they're being out produced, I don't think he'll have a problem with his role in his own mind. I think he more had a problem with playing with Lehkonen and Byron - as any player that wants an offensive role should, imo. I was decrying how much KK, Domi, and Suzuki got stuck with those two last year.

So, I think Danault can accept the role of playing with Gallagher and Tatar, but not necessarily getting first line minutes if the other two lines are out performing his line. And so, I think the real problem in bringing him back will be the cap hit. If Berg is going to budge over 5M AAV, Danault better produce - including in the playoffs - something he's never done before.

If it's an ask anywhere near $5mil per, then we need to trade him, imo...

 

[Deebs]

 

[Not The One]

YOU are using some stats, and I used ALL his stats.
YOU did not answer my question....what kind of contract would YOU give him?

Don't even know why I'm replying to this lol... when the Leafs signed Joe Thornton do you think they gave him that 700k contract on the basis of his 1509 career points or because of his 31 points last season? Why didn't they use ALL his stats, clearly he's worth 12M and not a penny less!

As for Danault using Bergevin's last two major signings Anderson (5.5M x 7) and Gallagher (6.5M x 6) I think his value for the Habs would be around 6M x 5, but without a NTC. If not for covid I'm 100% certain Danault could have gotten more elsewhere if he chose to. But as things stand right now with the flat cap the correct play for MB would be to wait until after the season, as he said he would do.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Don't even know why I'm replying to this lol... when the Leafs signed Joe Thornton do you think they gave him that 700k contract on the basis of his 1509 career points or because of his 31 points last season? Why didn't they use ALL his stats, clearly he's worth 12M and not a penny less!

As for Danault using Bergevin's last two major signings Anderson (5.5M x 7) and Gallagher (6.5M x 6) I think his value for the Habs would be around 6M x 5, but without a NTC. If not for covid I'm 100% certain Danault could have gotten more elsewhere if he chose to. But as things stand right now with the flat cap the correct play for MB would be to wait until after the season, as he said he would do.

Waiting until after the season is over is a big mistake, just like it was with Radulov...Danault is a key piece if he accepts his role on the team, so taking the chance of losing him for nothing is just as terrible an idea as it was with Radulov...

 

[CHfan1]

Waiting until after the season is over is a big mistake, just like it was with Radulov...Danault is a key piece if he accepts his role on the team, so taking the chance of losing him for nothing is just as terrible an idea as it was with Radulov...

Why give him a 6 year + contract now though at his rumoured asking price of $5.7 million? That would be a mistake or even $5 million +.

Waiting till the offseason allows Bergevin to see have Danault performs for the rest of the season as well as the young centres in Suzuki, KK, and Evans.

There is also a chance no other team offers Danault a long term contract with revenues still way down and the cap staying at $81.5 million. Last offseason only 2 forwards throughout the whole league got contracts that were 6 years or longer, compared to 22 the year before the pandemic hit.

I’d rather see the Habs lose Danault for nothing then have a long term contract that overpays a future centre who will get the 3rd most ice time among centres. Especially with the cap staying relatively flat for the foreseeable future.

 

[Not The One]

Waiting until after the season is over is a big mistake, just like it was with Radulov...Danault is a key piece if he accepts his role on the team, so taking the chance of losing him for nothing is just as terrible an idea as it was with Radulov...

Unlike some others here I understand and appreciate Danault's contributions to the team but considering that 75% of teams are up against the cap I'm not sure the Habs can afford to commit $$$ to players next year without know what happens with the cap, otherwise they would have to try to dump good players to come back down under the cap. But yeah I think there are several teams where Danault would fit well and who could offer him more than the Habs, like Columbus.

 

[angusyoung]

All those tweets go to show you that it's all BS.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I'm not talking about giving him $5+ mill on some ridiculous term, not at all...he accepts Elite #3C money ($4 mill or so) and makes the best out of his #3C role or we trade him before the deadline and get assets back (there'll be a ton of interest in Danault if his name is out there)...we can't take the chance of having another key guy walk and get nothing back in return or it will be the Radulov situation all over again; Bergevin needs to nut up and deal with this ASAP or he weakens his hand significantly...

 

[417]

Waiting until after the season is over is a big mistake, just like it was with Radulov...Danault is a key piece if he accepts his role on the team, so taking the chance of losing him for nothing is just as terrible an idea as it was with Radulov...

Disagree...

Also, brace yourself to see him not sign during this season.

 

[Doc McKenna]

The stats I posted include 31 of those games. They are really quite good overall.

Now this season the team is extremely deep and it's cutting into his icetime (like virtually every other forward except for Suzuki).

NHL Stats

Should that be held against him? It's only been ten games and I don't see how that overshadows his last seasons.

Yes because the only reason he has those "great" stats is because he is used all the time with our BEST PLAYERS. If PD had stayed as a 2nd or 3rd liner and didn't have tatar and gally stapled to his hip he would have 35-40 years instead of his 47 and 53 years. He also WANTS to play a top 6 role, he thinks he is a top line player-which he is on any terrible team, we are trending away from being a terrible team so we have better options to be our top 6 centers.

Look at his selke points, a single #1 rating
Some notable members of the people who vote

• Kevin Allen, USA Today
• Bruce Arthur, Toronto Star
• Dennis Bernstein, The Fourth Period magazine
• Larry Brooks, New York Post
• Scott Burnside, The Athletic
• Ken Campbell, The Hockey News
• Damien Cox, Toronto Star
• Craig Custance, The Athletic
• Eric Duhatschek, The Athletic
• Helene Elliott, Los Angeles Times
• Michael Farber, Sports Illustrated
• Elliotte Friedman, Hockey Night in Canada
• Bruce Garrioch, Ottawa Sun
• John Hoven, Mayorsmanor.com
• Pierre Lebrun, The Athletic
• Bob McKenzie, TSN
• Sarah McLellan, Minnesota Star Tribune
• James Mirtle, The Athletic
• Craig Morgan, ArizonaSports.com
• David Shoalts, The Globe and Mail
• Steve Simmons, Toronto Sun
• Mark Spector, Sportsnet (President)
• Michael Russo, The Athletic
• Kevin McGran, Toronto Star
• Stephen Whyno, The Associated Press
• Greg Wyshynski, ESPN
• Terry Jones, Edmonton Sun
• Jim Matheson, Edmonton Journal
• Bob Verdi, Chicago Tribune

2020: again a single 1st overall and 2nd overall vote. a better 175 point showing vs 1424 for the winner. That is a HUGE discrepancy ROR is the only C that has low goal scoring at 12, but his assists are at 49. More assists than Danault got points.

1	Sean Couturier	27	PHI	C	1424	83.76	117	27	8	7	4	22	37	59	21	4.4	2.2	0.0	6.6
2	Patrice Bergeron	34	BOS	C	884	52.00	21	56	40	24	10	31	25	56	23	5.6	2.3	0.0	7.9
3	Ryan O'Reilly	28	STL	C	816	48.00	11	47	53	33	13	12	49	61	11	3.3	2.1	0.0	5.4
4	Anthony Cirelli	22	TBL	C	612	36.00	13	23	34	44	19	16	28	44	28	2.5	2.2	0.0	4.7
5	Mark Stone	27	VEG	RW	210	12.35	2	8	10	19	27	21	42	63	15	5.2	1.8	0.0	7.1
6	Phillip Danault	26	MTL	LW	175	10.29	1	1	13	18	39	13	34	47	18	2.6	2.1	0.0	4.7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[CHfan1]

I'm not talking about giving him $5+ mill on some ridiculous term, not at all...he accepts Elite #3C money ($4 mill or so) and makes the best out of his #3C role or we trade him before the deadline and get assets back (there'll be a ton of interest in Danault if his name is out there)...we can't take the chance of having another key guy walk and get nothing back in return or it will be the Radulov situation all over again; Bergevin needs to nut up and deal with this ASAP or he weakens his hand significantly...

From everything I’ve heard I can’t see Danault accepting a contract like that.

I also think the Habs are going to go for it this season and players like Danault and Tatar would be their rentals who they could lose for free in the offseason. Personally I’m fine with this as the Habs need the depth, both of those players still bring a lot to the team, and I believe the Habs have a chance of being the team coming out of this division.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Well, if Jake Evans can show he's ready to be a 3c, I'm beginning to be ok with it.

I mean, if Danault can't produce he doesn't have that much trade value. But we'll see how things keep going - are we going to keep winning even if Danault isn't producing? Will Danault start producing and show he's worth the money he's asking for?

I still think in Danault's mind, he wants to play with players like Tatar and Gallagher. So, if he's playing with them, but they're being out produced, I don't think he'll have a problem with his role in his own mind. I think he more had a problem with playing with Lehkonen and Byron - as any player that wants an offensive role should, imo. I was decrying how much KK, Domi, and Suzuki got stuck with those two last year.

So, I think Danault can accept the role of playing with Gallagher and Tatar, but not necessarily getting first line minutes if the other two lines are out performing his line. And so, I think the real problem in bringing him back will be the cap hit. If Berg is going to budge over 5M AAV, Danault better produce - including in the playoffs - something he's never done before.

Those two are playing better than him this season. Dude has a mental block, likely from messing up this contract.

 

[BLONG7]

Don't even know why I'm replying to this lol... when the Leafs signed Joe Thornton do you think they gave him that 700k contract on the basis of his 1509 career points or because of his 31 points last season? Why didn't they use ALL his stats, clearly he's worth 12M and not a penny less!

As for Danault using Bergevin's last two major signings Anderson (5.5M x 7) and Gallagher (6.5M x 6) I think his value for the Habs would be around 6M x 5, but without a NTC. If not for covid I'm 100% certain Danault could have gotten more elsewhere if he chose to. But as things stand right now with the flat cap the correct play for MB would be to wait until after the season, as he said he would do.

LOL.........Joe Thronton was not seeking more than 700k!! LOL Cherry picking doesn't suit your agenda at all.
Again, we will agree to disagree, you think Phil is worth more than 5M per season, on a 6 year deal and I don't.
Phil is the PERFECT 3 rd line centre, on a good team, but not at any price.
That..............is the crutch of the issue. His numbers this season will not get him that deal, nor should it....waiting until the season is over, would seem that he still doesn't like his role, and will probably be gone. Accepting his role, would be a good start, but he thinks he is better than he really is...stay tuned.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

From everything I’ve heard I can’t see Danault accepting a contract like that.

I also think the Habs are going to go for it this season and players like Danault and Tatar would be their rentals who they could lose for free in the offseason. Personally I’m fine with this as the Habs need the depth, both of those players still bring a lot to the team, and I believe the Habs have a chance of being the team coming out of this division.

...but just focusing on this year is part of the problem; we've finally got some good young pieces to go with our vets and can easily maintain contender status for the near future and beyond if we prioritize the right things going forward now...short-sightedness is what cost us Radulov...shortsightedness is what turned our LD into a shyteshow when Bergevin traded Sergachev and Markov left...if he waits until after the season to deal with Danault, he's over the barrel all over again...prioritizing the future, not just the immediate future, is where Bergy's head needs to be here...

 

[CHfan1]

...but just focusing on this year is part of the problem; we've finally got some good young pieces to go with our vets and can easily maintain contender status for the near future and beyond if we prioritize the right things going forward now...short-sightedness is what cost us Radulov...shortsightedness is what turned our LD into a shyteshow when Bergevin traded Sergachev and Markov left...if he waits until after the season to deal with Danault, he's over the barrel all over again...prioritizing the future, not just the immediate future, is where Bergy's head needs to be here...

I can see your point but with the Habs contending, Weber, Price, and Petry getting older I can’t see Bergevin making a deal that weakens the team this season with a futures deal. Maybe he trades Danault and gets back a younger player who can contribute this season but I can’t see it.

 

[ZUKI]

Apparently it was noticeable how often Danault would have one-on-one talks with Julien at practice today.à

Danault asking Julien to be the godfather of is new born ?

 

[Doc McKenna]

He is down to 15:50 a game. KK is getting 13:44 and evans 12:45(and almost all our bottom 6 fall in the 12-13:44) minute group.

Only toffoli(16:49) and Suz(18:11) have more TOI of our forwards. Anderson is at 14:09 Drouin Tatar and Gally are in the 15 minute range behind danault. He is still getting the king treatment from claude, He needs to up his points, it will hurt any contract if he can't produce more with the 3rd most TOI on the team.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I can see your point but with the Habs contending, Weber, Price, and Petry getting older I can’t see Bergevin making a deal that weakens the team this season with a futures deal. Maybe he trades Danault and gets back a younger player who can contribute this season but I can’t see it.

I can...his name is Sam Bennett...