Phil Kessel - Discussion Thread

[Duke Silver]

Only in Toronto would perennial point-per-game performances be a "failure".

 

[Menzinger]

This past week he said he does not care if he continues to play for the Leafs...

This is simply untrue, he specifically said he loves playing in Toronto.

 

[LolungoReboundo]

Since I don't know how to do the cool twitter things yet:

Dave Stubbs @Dave_Stubbs · 3h 3 hours ago
Subban: “I don’t think Phil (Kessel) gets enough credit for his personality. He’s a personable guy if he knows you.†#Leafs

Dave Stubbs @Dave_Stubbs · 3h 3 hours ago
Subban: "If you put a microphone in (Kessel’s) face & ask him stupid questions, he’s not going to show that (personable) side of himself"

‏@Dave_Stubbs
Subban: I don’t think (Kessel) gets enough credit for showing his personality. He’s an outgoing guy and he’s really funny."

 

[Rare Jewel]

He didn't fail - management failed to build a good team around him.

Pretty much this.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

He didn't fail - management failed to build a good team around him.

This. He was the wrong player at the wrong time to acquire. But it's not like he ever got much help during his time here. He'd be much better if he weren't the face of the franchise and did't have certain stigmas attached to him.

Unfortunately for Kessel, his time in Toronto was and will be remembered as a disappointment. For all the goals he scored and lofty point totals he achieved, it ultimately led to nothing for this franchise.

 

[X66]

A winger should never be your teams best player.

Not Kessel's fault.

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

This is simply untrue, he specifically said he loves playing in Toronto.

No, it's not untrue.

The two facts (both liking to play hockey here, but also not caring if he is traded to another team) are not mutually exclusive.

He said "I love Toronto. But [if] it’s not here, it’s not here.”

Does that sound like a passionate desire to continue playing for the Leafs? Or could a reasonable person infer from that statement that he is A-OK with moving on and playing somewhere else?

 

[Purity*]

No #1C, no #1D, he made top-liners out of who would be ideal second liners (Lupul and JVR), played almost his entire tenure with a very mediocre center...

Obviously a case can be made for the trade failing, but Kessel himself failing? Nah. He's met if not exceeded expectations production-wise since coming to Toronto.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I really do not want to make this a controversial topic - if you feel that he was not a failure simply list the reason

Please give 2 good reasons why he failed in Toronto, I will start with my own

- No bonafide center to play with
- Lack of support from other lines

This is a pretty deep topic tbh.

I'm gonna say Kessel never failed in Toronto.

He's just tired like the rest of us and he's not even from here.

 

[Tak7]

He didn't fail - management failed to build a good team around him.

/thread

Seriously - the guy was brought in to do a job, and has done it, all while keeping his nose clean of the ice. He hasn't failed. The team failed him.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

He exceeded my expectations.

 

[Dreakmur]

Just because the team is not perfect does not mean Kessel shouldn't be required to work hard. Yeah, the team around him sucks, but he is a huge part of the problem as well.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

Still ****ing dodges anybody that comes within 3 feet of him. This makes him unreliable in retrieving the puck with almost no board play. That's the number 1 thing that pisses me off. If Kessel goes into the corners battling a pee-wee kid, he'd never make it out alive. Who am I kidding. Of course he would be fine. He never goes into corners. And his patented snapshot streaking down the wing grows weary. How about driving the net or something

 

[Tak7]

Just because the team is not perfect does not mean Kessel shouldn't be required to work hard. Yeah, the team around him sucks, but he is a huge part of the problem as well.

He's a hockey player with flaws.

In a 30 team league that dresses 40 players per game (600 players per one set of games), there's maybe, what - 3 players? 5 maybe, that you consider flawless?

Good teams help cover up said flaws of elite players. This is one reason why Toronto isn't a good team.

 

[Tak7]

Why does a rebuild have to make us suck? Has Detroit not rebuilt in forever?

Slightly off topic but...

...people have a very skewed perception of what Detroit does.

Good youth and development system? Sure.

But based on the number of picks that have played over 50 games or more since 2004, Detroit are middle of the pack when it comes to drafting. Nothing exceptional.

Also - take a few key pieces in Detroit, like Datsyuk & Kronwall, and throw them into the retirement well tomorrow, and what do you have? A sustainable hockey team? Or a team dunked in a traditional rebuild?

Not so sure myself.

 

[Alexanderthe89]

 

[Pilky01]

Kessel didn't really fail so much as he was put in a situation where success was never possible.

The trade should never have been made. Wrong team, wrong player, wrong time. But of course when you have a pig headed jackass running your organization and trying to make an impression mistakes like this get made.

I don't blame Phil at all. He is a what he is....What he is is a complete suck....but that isn't news. He is what we thought he was and yet the organization insisted in believing in him.

 

[ChillyPalmer]

When was the last time a cup winning team had a winger as the best player?

The fact that he's always been the best player (AINEC) isn't his fault.

Management failed him, the same way they failed Sundin.

 

[ChillyPalmer]

Kessel not only has to score 30, he has to get in the dirty areas like Bergeron, and be a leader like Messier.

Sweet baby Jesus.

 

[Dreakmur]

He's a hockey player with flaws.

In a 30 team league that dresses 40 players per game (600 players per one set of games), there's maybe, what - 3 players? 5 maybe, that you consider flawless?

Good teams help cover up said flaws of elite players. This is one reason why Toronto isn't a good team.

Flaws don't excuse a lack of effort.

 

[Tak7]

Flaws don't excuse a lack of effort.

Of course not.

But a "lack of effort" over the 6 weeks however isn't the same as "lack of effort" over an entire career, which is a connection too many people are trying to make, incorrectly.

 

[Dreakmur]

Of course not.

But a "lack of effort" over the 6 weeks however isn't the same as "lack of effort" over an entire career, which is a connection too many people are trying to make, incorrectly.

Kessel has never really applied himself here. It's worse lately, but he's always been lazy.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

He exceeded my expectations.

same here.

 

[Nithoniniel]

He's a hockey player with flaws.

In a 30 team league that dresses 40 players per game (600 players per one set of games), there's maybe, what - 3 players? 5 maybe, that you consider flawless?

Good teams help cover up said flaws of elite players. This is one reason why Toronto isn't a good team.

Slightly off topic but...

...people have a very skewed perception of what Detroit does.

Good youth and development system? Sure.

But based on the number of picks that have played over 50 games or more since 2004, Detroit are middle of the pack when it comes to drafting. Nothing exceptional.

Also - take a few key pieces in Detroit, like Datsyuk & Kronwall, and throw them into the retirement well tomorrow, and what do you have? A sustainable hockey team? Or a team dunked in a traditional rebuild?

Not so sure myself.

I agree. Man, you have been writing good posts lately.

 

[Mess]

He didn't fail - management failed to build a good team around him.

Pretty much this.

That is because the very assets it took to acquire him (high draft picks) the same things that most teams use to build good teams.

If a team trades away its best team building assets it shouldn't come as a surprise that its difficult to build a good team. That is why good teams build and bad teams buy, knowing full well if you spend your assets to acquire assets you no longer have assets to finish the job.

Leafs went out and spent their money on a Ferrari in Kessel and cleaned out their bank account going bankrupt in the process preventing then from acquiring other assets. Now they complain the house is falling apart around them, but the Ferrari in the driveway sure is nice, and not the reason for their problems because it still runs well. Smart people first build up their houses and then can afford to buy that luxary car in the future when they have saved up and have disposable income.

Seems people want their cake and want to eat it to.

Its not the Ferrari's fault it was the ones that was in charge of the purchasing decisions.