Phil Kessel - Discussion Thread

[thewave]

Agreed. I thought we were past the point of looking at the trade as Seguin+Hamilton+Knight for Kessel? The trade was two 1st and a 2nd for Kessel.

Superimposition does nothing for an argument that isn't even arguable.

The Seguin Kessel thing never made sense from the leafs point of view but did absolutely to Boston as the direct benefactor of the deal.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

This is what elite players do, score when theyre hot, score when theyre not.

 

[TLeafsFan]

He likes getting hemmed in by other team's 4th lines I hear.

 

[ACC1224]

I know you don't like Kessel, that's fine. But even you wouldn't suggest something as ridiculous as the idea that he's basically cheating with his stick selection in order to make him look bad.

Obviously he cheats. How else could a fat, weak core Player score at the rate he does?

 

[silentbob37*]

I've heard rumors that he's injured. I wonder if thats the main reason for him shying even further away from contact these days. With how few games this guy has missed it's not a stretch to assume there's truth in them. Not that he's ever really been a power forward but it has been noticeable the past few games.

As for the Seguin rumors, with our horrible drafting we likely would have drafted Connolly or someone similarly underperforming. Second overall for Seguin seems like a no brainer, but we are the Leafs after all.

The Leafs have been a good drafting teams for years now. I crunched some numebrs a while back, and between 1998 and 2008 the Leafs have an above average success rate at the draft table. The Leafs being a poor drafting team is a myth.

I wonder how many of his annual 37 goals can be directly contributed to his custom made whippy stick that has the NHL's highest flex ratio.

If he used a normal stick like most of the league uses what would his goal totals be?

Its 50/50

Yes Kessel uses a super whippy stick that helps him score goals by allowing him to have a very quick release, to claim that the stick has no affect on his goal scoring numbers is dumb. It absolutely does.

The flip side is, not every player can handle a stick that whippy. Lupul has made comments that he doesn't know how Kessel can stick handle or pass with that stick and he wouldn't be able to function/play a game with a stick that whippy.

The stick absolutely makes Kessel a more effective goal scorer, but not everyone can handle that stick.

 

[theIceWookie]

I wonder how many of his annual 37 goals can be directly contributed to his custom made whippy stick that has the NHL's highest flex ratio.

If he used a normal stick like most of the league uses what would his goal totals be?

Why is this even a question? Everyone in the league uses a different stick, why would you bother bringing that up?

Does it help? Yep, but what point is there to asking if a different stick would change things? It clearly would so if it would why would he change it. There are no rules for flex in a stick.

Dumb question is dumb.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

I wonder how many of his annual 37 goals can be directly contributed to his custom made whippy stick that has the NHL's highest flex ratio.

If he used a normal stick like most of the league uses what would his goal totals be?

You do realize that if him and Sidney Crosby traded sticks they would BOTH score less goals, right?

Everyone chooses a stick that gives them the best advantage possible. Just because Phil's plays to a softer flex, doesn't mean that he has any sort of advantage over anyone else. Every player has the choice.

 

[theIceWookie]

Can I claim that anyone who wants the Leafs to keep Kessel doesn't want the Leafs to win a cup since they need to significantly increase their talent level which will be next to impossible to do while keeping Kessel?

I think you need to examine the bolded a little more. You're logic is faulty lol.

How would the loss of Kessel's talent level lead to an improvement in more talent?

Tanking doesn't make sense cause all you're doing is replacing an NHLer with exceptional talent with a player who has potential talent. The result is more than likely an even trade at best, but comes with a higher probability of losing that trade off.

But I get it, can't win with Kessel (he's not the problem people, stop trying to make him the problem. It's not gonna happen. This is why we can't have nice things)

 

[TootooTrain]

Next thing we'll be accusing his gloves or his skates for scoring those goals for him.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

Next thing we'll be accusing his gloves or his skates for scoring those goals for him.

You do realize that Phil wears a visor that is 1% tinted right? He sees holes on a goalie that no one else sees. Its the visor that scores all the goals for him..

lol

 

[silentbob37*]

I think you need to examine the bolded a little more. You're logic is faulty lol.

How would the loss of Kessel's talent level lead to an improvement in more talent?

Tanking doesn't make sense cause all you're doing is replacing an NHLer with exceptional talent with a player who has potential talent. The result is more than likely an even trade at best, but comes with a higher probability of losing that trade off.

But I get it, can't win with Kessel (he's not the problem people, stop trying to make him the problem. It's not gonna happen. This is why we can't have nice things)

In the short term, losing Kessel (along with the rest of this core) would hurt the team, but you have to look long term, not short term.

Tank is the only thing that makes sense because its clear and obvious that that 1 NHLer needs more exceptional talent in and around him for this team to be ultiamtely successful (ie - a cup winning team) and the reality is that it will be next to impossible to add the kind of players around Kessel that this TEAM needs to become a contender in the next 5 years or so (most likely Kessel's window)

"Tanking" isn't about getting equal value for Kessel in a trade, that isn't going to happen. And its not about drafting that 1 player who will single handedly turn the Leafs into a contender or out score Kessel by 5 goals and 10 points. Its about building a GROUP of players that can be the foundation that a winning team is built on.

We went through 10 years of basically this with Sundin. Great player, #1 center on most other teams during his career, but we were never able to build the kind of nucleus and core around him that could really compete with the Wings or Devils or Avs. We had 1 piece, they had 3-4. "Tanking" is about taking the time and opportunity to get those 3-4 pieces.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Phil is a producer, when he is producing all is forgiven. When he is not, he brings little to a team. Right now, all is forgiven.

Infact, Phil is the best 40 goal scorer in the NHL, to have actually never scored 40 goals in his career.

 

[Northern Dancer]

I wonder how many of his annual 37 goals can be directly contributed to his custom made whippy stick that has the NHL's highest flex ratio.

If he used a normal stick like most of the league uses what would his goal totals be?

I am nominating this for post of the year.

 

[Patty Lee]

I wonder how many of his annual 37 goals can be directly contributed to his custom made whippy stick that has the NHL's highest flex ratio.

If he used a normal stick like most of the league uses what would his goal totals be?

I wonder how many he'd have if they made him shoot left handed for the second periods.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I wonder how many of his annual 37 goals can be directly contributed to his custom made whippy stick that has the NHL's highest flex ratio.

If he used a normal stick like most of the league uses what would his goal totals be?

Interesting, never thought about this. Phil rarely one time's shots, or slaps them. Would he be better or worse?

Wonder if other players will try to adopt this stick, I recall golfers going to the belly putter to reduce the yips, never liked the belly putter, though it was cheating.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

Complaining about moderator actions in public posts and calling other posters trolls are both against the rules.

 

[theIceWookie]

Interesting, never thought about this. Phil rarely one time's shots, or slaps them. Would he be better or worse?

Wonder if other players will try to adopt this stick, I recall golfers going to the belly putter to reduce the yips, never liked the belly putter, though it was cheating.

And now when everyone starts pushing the stupid agenda "Kessel cheats" in about three months, we can track where this idiocy started...

 

[gtforepro]

Someone tell me why this won't work...

Why does Phil Kessel bother going into his own end? Why don't we have 3 defensively responsible RWers who change every time the Leafs are coming up ice? Similarly, why doesn't Phil just jump back on the bench when the puck goes the other way? I mean, obviously the RW can't change if he's carrying the puck, and I'm sure there would be times when it wouldn't make sense for Phil to come off, but as a general rule of thumb, wouldn't this work? Phil gets more time doing what he's good at and enjoys, and less time doing what he has no interest in doing in the first place.

 

[AINEC*]

Imagine being a star player who's so bad defensively that your coach just tells you to get off the ice when the puck goes anywhere near your end.

 

[TootooTrain]

Interesting, never thought about this. Phil rarely one time's shots, or slaps them. Would he be better or worse?

Wonder if other players will try to adopt this stick, I recall golfers going to the belly putter to reduce the yips, never liked the belly putter, though it was cheating.

Better take those rocket richard trophies away from Ovi. His flex is within 15 of Kessel's and his stick curve is more severe than most. Cheating obv.

 

[Mess]

There is a valid reason why lines #2 and #3 generate more ES points than line #1 and line #1 gives up the most ES goals against.

The only thing a coach can do is play lines #2 and #3 more at ES and save line #1 for PP time where they excel and are not defensive liabilities.

Also offensive zone starts and defensive zone starts can manipulate this.

 

[Stephen]

Or Phil could just start playing like a normal player and stop acting like such a DH.

 

[Leafidelity]

Maybe we should stop trying to change the perennial superstar and compensate with his inferior linemates? Just an idea.

 

[613Leafer]

There is a valid reason why lines #2 and #3 generate more ES points than line #1 and line #1 gives up the most ES goals against.

The only thing a coach can do is play lines #2 and #3 more at ES and save line #1 for PP time where they excel and are not defensive liabilities.

Also offensive zone starts and defensive zone starts can manipulate this.

Pretty much this. Unfortunately we have to get our ~1-3M $$ players who work hard and excel in all-situations to play the tough minutes (and still regularly outscore the opposition), that way we can baby the minutes for our 8M $ star player who can only be effective if given protected minutes, favourable zone starts, high PP time, etc.

 

[Leafidelity]

Pretty much this. Unfortunately we have to get our ~1-3M $$ players who work hard and excel in all-situations to play the tough minutes (and still regularly outscore the opposition), that way we can baby the minutes for our 8M $ star player who can only be effective if given protected minutes, favourable zone starts, high PP time, etc.

Just like many Hall of Fame players. Or should Mike Bossy have spent more time on the penalty kill? Forget trying to score Mr Hull, you need to be holding your defensemans hand in your end.