Confirmed with Link: Phaneuf on the Pha-move to LA

[Sens of Anarchy]

I tend to agree with you.

Anyone who knew the role Oduya played, for a few seasons, before coming to Ottawa knew that he was NOT the "replacement for Methot"........... assuming that was a mistake most causal fans won't admit.

No one in the Senators organization ever said he was the "replacement for Methot".

I think a lot of people believed that either Harpur or Claesson would be tried in Methot's place, based on how they both played in 2016-17....... and if one of them could not carry the load, then perhaps a platoon system would work .......... but we all saw that did not work out, and Oduya was given some time to play with Karlsson as a result.

While Dorion says Oduya could potentially serve as Karlsson’s defence partner — filling the void left by the loss of Marc Methot in the expansion draft — the ultimate decision on where he fits belongs to Guy Boucher. Oduya has also talked with the Senators coach.

Senators add two-time Stanley Cup champion Johnny Oduya to the defence
From Dorion:

We just felt, as a group, that when we lost Methot that we have some great young kids coming but you can never have too many defencemen. I think Johnny fits in our mix really well and is someone that can play up and down the line-up. He's got experience which is something that we like and at the same time he's someone that will fit in very well with our system. He's a possible partner for Erik Karlsson but he also gives other guys on our defence corps the possibility to play with him as well.

Dorion: He's someone that will fit in very well with our system

The casual fans were told by the GM it was a possibility and referenced losing Methot at the same time as discussing acquiring Oduya .. Not an idea the casual fans just made up... I take it you are somewhat more than a casual fan?

 

[SensFactor]

Teams don't make trades to WIN them, they are addressing problems. Budget could be a problem, cap space could be a problem, weakness at a position could be a problem, etc.



If Dorion has the Stone to trade stones...



Karlsson 27 y/o
Chabot 21 y/o
Ceci 24 y/o
Jaros 21 y/o
Wolanin 22 y/o
Harpur 23 y/o
Lajoie 20 y/o
Summers 21 y/o
Claesson 25 y/o
Englund 22 y/o



I think in between the lines (or what I think anyway) is it WILL BE a position of strength, as it really doesn't matter right now (but he obviously can't say that)



Exactly and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sens rise again next year. Devils and Avs have a much better season this year trusting their youth. Sens did it before too.



Last year was a total success (no matter how some will try to spin it) so it's not too far in my mind. I can deal with a bad season that way.

What I'm excited about :

- a top-5 pick (didn't happen since Phillips in '96, not counting Spezza as it was part of a deal)
- a new youth movement (like it happened in 2010-11) and now it happens again 7 years later. Sens made the playoffs the 2 following years and even beat the 2nd seed in 2012-13 (Habs, rather easily and it was a pleasure to witness for a Sens fan in Montreal)
- excited to see Chabot, White, Chlapik, Brown, Batherson, Formenton, Jaros, Harpur, etc graduate with the Sens in the next few years.

The only thing that can save this team comes from drafting. They are good at it, so what is happening right now will force them to play the prospects they drafted. This is the only way they could get good again. Not with UFAs and certainly not by Dorion's trading.



11 playoffs games? (that's where I stopped reading)



Shhhh or you will be painted as a villain!

Apparently it's perfectly fine to trash and insult people that are not HF posters.



Human yes, but NHL level? Hmmm not sure. What they did last year was to give the Sens solid usual NHL goaltending. You need to watch more NHL games, most teams receive that.

When your goalie is outplayed by the other team's goalie in almost every game, there's a big problem.

Goaltending is the last line of defence. Our d core is the problem. Goaltending masked this problem last year. I blame the goaltending alot less than I blame our defensemen this year. That's on management not seeing this.

 

[aragorn]

IMO Oduya was brought in as a veteran depth defenceman who could be placed on any pairing where needed. Although he isn't the same player he once was he has the experience & with a one yr contract can easily be moved at the deadline for a late rd pick hopefully. They had little to lose with that signing. I agree I didn't think they needed to replace Methot because they have lots of depth on defence although young.

 

[2CHAINZ]

When you see that Phanuef has been traded but then see what we got in return.

Dorion making trades like

 

[HF Reader]

I do like the trade.

You first said that "Admittedly I'd feel a lot better about the trade if Melnyk immediately committed to reinvesting in K'son/Stone, scouts, etc."

With respect to your bolded statement. We all already know this. Dorion said he is willing to trade anyone but Karlsson and Stone because we want to retool.

But to come out and "immediately" say we are committing whatever money we made to Karlsson's future deal would just look wrong, to me. It is obvious we are trading a lot of people. Karlsson too has not played well. Lots of bad blood for sure.

They have promised a lot of change and have started to deliver. The money we could be saving in the next couple of weeks might be enough to fill the gullets of the most hypocritical of Melnyk maniacs.

Also next year will be bad? and the year after that? and I am reading your mind? You have not only reacted poorly to a bad season but you also predict, unfortunately, many bad seasons in the future for our team. This is not good.

Thank you for your reply. You and I are on the same wavelength for the most part. I agree that coming out immediately regarding Karlsson would be wrong and that there appears to be bad blood. I should have been more careful in what I said. I didn't hear the Melnyk speech regarding short term pain, or whatever he said, so perhaps he has already said what I'd like to hear, which is we need to take a new direction (including scouts, etc.).

I'm making an assumption here based on what you have written but I conclude that you are not entirely sold on keeping Karlsson. At least not at any cost. I agree 100% with you on this point. Karlsson might be part of the problem for all I know.

What caused me to reply to you the way I did was my taking offence to your statement that I will react badly to a poor season next year. From my perspective I am not reacting badly to this season. If you have the time I am curious why you think I have reacted badly to this season. And why you think I'll react badly next year.

This season is worse than I expected but I am not entirely surprised they will miss the playoffs. Any negativity I feel is related to some poor decisions over the past few years. I liked the Ryan signing but was totally against both the Phaneuf trade and the Cowen signing. It's easy for me to say this now but I predicted the Phaneuf trade would cost us Methot in the Vegas draft. I was also against the Burrows move, the Anderson signing and Dumont. But I understood the need to improve the fourth line, and Burrows had some possibility of being one of those "playoff winners", along with Stahlberg.

I lack the in-depth knowledge to have judged Dumont, Thompson, Oduya fairly but from what I have seen they are bad moves also.

A problem Melnyk will face IF the Sens lose Karlsson is that the loss will be seen as a consequence of having money tied up in poor performers, such as Ryan and Anderson. Such a perception will be difficult to overcome.

The truth is that if handled properly I'm excited for the team to make a serious effort to rebuild.

What will make me react negatively is Dorion trading Hoffman, Pageau, Brassard with no appreciable improvement to the team.

 

[lancepitlick]

Teams don't make trades to WIN them, they are addressing problems. Budget could be a problem, cap space could be a problem, weakness at a position could be a problem, etc.



If Dorion has the Stone to trade stones...



Karlsson 27 y/o
Chabot 21 y/o
Ceci 24 y/o
Jaros 21 y/o
Wolanin 22 y/o
Harpur 23 y/o
Lajoie 20 y/o
Summers 21 y/o
Claesson 25 y/o
Englund 22 y/o



I think in between the lines (or what I think anyway) is it WILL BE a position of strength, as it really doesn't matter right now (but he obviously can't say that)



Exactly and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sens rise again next year. Devils and Avs have a much better season this year trusting their youth. Sens did it before too.



Last year was a total success (no matter how some will try to spin it) so it's not too far in my mind. I can deal with a bad season that way.

What I'm excited about :

- a top-5 pick (didn't happen since Phillips in '96, not counting Spezza as it was part of a deal)
- a new youth movement (like it happened in 2010-11) and now it happens again 7 years later. Sens made the playoffs the 2 following years and even beat the 2nd seed in 2012-13 (Habs, rather easily and it was a pleasure to witness for a Sens fan in Montreal)
- excited to see Chabot, White, Chlapik, Brown, Batherson, Formenton, Jaros, Harpur, etc graduate with the Sens in the next few years.

The only thing that can save this team comes from drafting. They are good at it, so what is happening right now will force them to play the prospects they drafted. This is the only way they could get good again. Not with UFAs and certainly not by Dorion's trading.



11 playoffs games? (that's where I stopped reading)



Shhhh or you will be painted as a villain!

Apparently it's perfectly fine to trash and insult people that are not HF posters.



Human yes, but NHL level? Hmmm not sure. What they did last year was to give the Sens solid usual NHL goaltending. You need to watch more NHL games, most teams receive that.

When your goalie is outplayed by the other team's goalie in almost every game, there's a big problem.

What's a more reliable indicator of where your team is at: regular season points / point differential or a statistically aberrant postseason run that consisted of 11 wins against three teams? It's hockey and anyone can make a run in the post-season with an OK team if they get lucky and have amazing goaltending. It doesn't mean you are likely to be the fourth best team in the league the following season. A better stat to predict this is your previous seasons goals for/against and regular season point totals. Ottawa had the 12th best record and a negative goal differential. That's not a great team.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Goaltending is the last line of defence. Our d core is the problem. Goaltending masked this problem last year. I blame the goaltending alot less than I blame our defensemen this year. That's on management not seeing this.

Our D was much better last year even if the goalies bailed us out at times. The D and the goalies both suck this year.

 

[playasRus]

I think losing Phaneuf and gaining a guy like Gaborik who's got nothing to lose and can just skate for fun with no pressure or expectations of playoffs is going to hurt our lottery chances.

 

[Brannstorm]

I think losing Phaneuf and gaining a guy like Gaborik who's got nothing to lose and can just skate for fun with no pressure or expectations of playoffs is going to hurt our lottery chances.

I don't know, The leafs traded Phaneuf and did they draft Dhalin, uh I mean Matthews? Oh ya they did.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Our D was much better last year even if the goalies bailed us out at times.

Much better than this year for sure but it wasn't good

 

[Fandlauer]

In b4 Gaborik looks like his old self for the next 30 games and costs us a good draft pick only for his knees to explode in a cloud of dust and haunt our 4th line for the coming years. We all know this is gonna happen.

How bout that eh

 

[topshelf15]

I think losing Phaneuf and gaining a guy like Gaborik who's got nothing to lose and can just skate for fun with no pressure or expectations of playoffs is going to hurt our lottery chances.

I paid that damn guy ,with hot dog cannon to take him out.......

 

[Sun God Nika]

so with 8 in 31 this year gaborik is on pace for 21 goals over 82 games.

he should be bought out next offseason (2019) but I think if he can stay healthy next year he can actually help the club with 15-20 goals a nice little last hurrah.

 

[Langdon Alger]

so with 8 in 31 this year gaborik is on pace for 21 goals over 82 games.

he should be bought out next offseason (2019) but I think if he can stay healthy next year he can actually help the club with 15-20 goals a nice little last hurrah.

I wouldn’t mind that, but the risk is if he gets hurt between now and then.

 

[topshelf15]

I wouldn’t mind that, but the risk is if he gets hurt between now and then.

I think he is gone come June

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I was about to say this. If you can't prove it, it never happened. And even if you prove it, he will ignore it.

again, someone who reads "I've never heard him call in" and their mind spins it to "it never happened" and that become their reality.

 

[Sun God Nika]

I think he is gone come June

If he is bought out in june 2018 the sens will pay Gaborik 7.21M in real dollars not to play for them.
If he is bought out in june 2019 the sens will pay Gaborik 4.16M in real dollars not to play for them.

Sens save 3 million dollars, Gaborik if he plays next year will make 4.6M so:
buyout in 2018 = 7.21M spent
buyout in 2019 = 4.16M + 4.6M = 8.76M spent

a difference of 1.55M to have gaborik play 2018-19

If Gaborik can come in next season and contribute stay healthy and make this team a little better and possibly even lower Colarados draft pick to save some embarassment I say he is worth a 1 year 1.55M contract which is essentially what the sens are doing if they delay the buyout by a year. The only major contract that kicks in next season is Stone, and small raise to Ceci probably.If he is bought out in 19 that also allows more flexibility for EK and Duchene since it will bring a lower cap hit, and be on the book for 1 less year.

 

[topshelf15]

If he is bought out in june 2018 the sens will pay Gaborik 7.21M in real dollars not to play for them.
If he is bought out in june 2019 the sens will pay Gaborik 4.16M in real dollars not to play for them.

Sens save 3 million dollars, Gaborik if he plays next year will make 4.6M so:
buyout in 2018 = 7.21M spent
buyout in 2019 = 4.16M + 4.6M = 8.76M spent

a difference of 1.55M to have gaborik play 2018-19

If Gaborik can come in next season and contribute stay healthy and make this team a little better and possibly even lower Colarados draft pick to save some embarassment I say he is worth a 1 year 1.55M contract which is essentially what the sens are doing if they delay the buyout by a year. The only major contract that kicks in next season is Stone, and small raise to Ceci probably.If he is bought out in 19 that also allows more flexibility for EK and Duchene since it will bring a lower cap hit, and be on the book for 1 less year.

Makes sense,but i think the one worry would him getting injured and us not being able to buy him out when we need too

 

[Sun God Nika]

Makes sense,but i think the one worry would him getting injured and us not being able to buy him out when we need too

Then you just put him on LTIR and let insurance pay him even better.

 

[topshelf15]

Then you just put him on LTIR and let insurance pay him even better.

Yep ,but what if he gets cleared to play...At a time when you dont want him on your roster

 

[NyQuil]

I’m getting the warm and fuzzies from the Gaborik trade - reminds me of the excitement of hockey great Alexei Kovalev’s arrival in the National Capital Region.

Star power in spades!

 

[playasRus]

I don't know, The leafs traded Phaneuf and did they draft Dhalin, uh I mean Matthews? Oh ya they did.

Yeah but they replaced Phaneuf with Colin Greening and Jared Cowen.
We replaced him with Harpur and Gaborik.

 

[coladin]

If he is bought out in june 2018 the sens will pay Gaborik 7.21M in real dollars not to play for them.
If he is bought out in june 2019 the sens will pay Gaborik 4.16M in real dollars not to play for them.

Sens save 3 million dollars, Gaborik if he plays next year will make 4.6M so:
buyout in 2018 = 7.21M spent
buyout in 2019 = 4.16M + 4.6M = 8.76M spent

a difference of 1.55M to have gaborik play 2018-19

If Gaborik can come in next season and contribute stay healthy and make this team a little better and possibly even lower Colarados draft pick to save some embarassment I say he is worth a 1 year 1.55M contract which is essentially what the sens are doing if they delay the buyout by a year. The only major contract that kicks in next season is Stone, and small raise to Ceci probably.If he is bought out in 19 that also allows more flexibility for EK and Duchene since it will bring a lower cap hit, and be on the book for 1 less year.

Good points, but he has to be bought out, and I think that is the plan. Or, there may be a chance that he gets moved and they take another bad salary back as they wittle away at getting our of his contract. Insteda of moving a 7M for a bad 5M contract, they can move him at 5M and take a bad 3M contract back...or just buy himout.

He just doesn't fit in the future and that is what the team's directions seems to be. Can you imagine Ryan and Gaborik here next year at RW?

 

[Sun God Nika]

Good points, but he has to be bought out, and I think that is the plan. Or, there may be a chance that he gets moved and they take another bad salary back as they wittle away at getting our of his contract. Insteda of moving a 7M for a bad 5M contract, they can move him at 5M and take a bad 3M contract back...or just buy himout.

He just doesn't fit in the future and that is what the team's directions seems to be. Can you imagine Ryan and Gaborik here next year at RW?

But who else would be better than Gaborik for the third line next year internally? the sens benefit more buying him out in a year because his buyout caphit would run through a year less than if he was bought out this offseason. Sens aren't winning the cup next year, and Duchene and EK are on team friendly deals for that year anyways.

 

[Zorf]

I’m getting the warm and fuzzies from the Gaborik trade - reminds me of the excitement of hockey great Alexei Kovalev’s arrival in the National Capital Region.

Star power in spades!

The Gaborik trade reminded me more of when the Sens got Bondra.



FYI. Bondra was acquired in 2004.