Peterborough Petes 2018 Offseason Thread

[Petes]

No offence, but if you've ever played competitive sports then you would or should know the impact a good coach can make. I honestly think having good coach can be the difference between finishing first and missing the playoffs.

Couldn't agree more. It makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Square Corners]

No offence, but if you've ever played competitive sports then you would or should know the impact a good coach can make. I honestly think having good coach can be the difference between finishing first and missing the playoffs.

I have played competitive sports on many different levels, actually went to school on a sports scholarship. And yeah if you have a completely incompetent coach, but Jody Hull was not that, which is why I have no use for that excuse in this case.


I mean, nearly all the guys on the team were also on the team last year. So last year, Jody got Koro/Ang/DeNoble/Timms/Timleck etc to buy in but this year they decided hes the worst ever and theyre not going to play? Its a weak excuse. Go back and read Ang's comments when he got traded, he openly said he loved Jody

The real reason for the people not wanting to bury their head in the sand is they lost some really key pieces on the back end after last year and didnt even come close to replace them properly.

 

[WillardJFredricks]

I think they really need to have a culture shift. I think a really driven, visionary coach could really help with that. When you look at the successful sports franchises, they have a culture. I think of the Spurs in the NBA or Cardinals in MLB. Obviously you can't compare those to the OHL, but certain organizations have a real way of doing things that work. The Petes seem to just kind of go with it and have no real guiding vision in place. At least that's how it seems from an outsiders perspective.

It's also been a long time since they had a really good coach (I'd say since Dick Todd returned). You look at the guys who have been in here the last 20 years or so: McRae, Allain, Mallette, Pelino, Hull. All solid hockey people (Pelino with tons of experience) but you haven't seen them really do anything big before or since. They're safe picks who will keep the team running, but I feel like they need to get out of their comfort zone and take a chance. Some of those younger coaches might only be here a couple of years before they move up, but it would at least kickstart things.

I'd be quite okay seeing a coach who shows a bit more passion (of course, showing passion behind the bench doesn't necessarily mean anything, but most of the recent coaches just kind of stand there and shrug). I'd like to see someone who is really into it. Because that will rub off on players.

The days of the long time coaches in the OHL like Todd, Kilrea, even DeBoer are gone (minus Hunter) but I think they need to take the chance on someone who has a real drive and is committed to implementing systems and making players rise to the challenge and be accountable. Even if the risk is you lose him to a higher team/league in a couple of years. And most of all, they NEED a coach who will focus on the defensive game. I love seeing goals as much as anyone, but the foundation ALWAYS needs to be preventing goals, and it seems to me the Petes have ignored that for a long, long time. Even if it's bringing in as an assistant coach a guy who has a long background in teaching and implementing safe, solid defensive systems.

As has been mentioned by others on here, it is noticeable when other teams make adjustments and the Petes can't counter. That comes down to coaching. Making in-game or in-series adjustments. Not just throwing out the same guys and doing the same things that aren't working.

You absolutely cannot put all the blame on coaching. But the truth is the coaches are the ones leading practice every day and are behind the bench every game. They set the tone and the players will follow, for good or bad, the lead of the coaches. I think when you're dealing with teenagers, this is even more important, because it's rare to find a teen who has the leadership and self-assurance of an adult, or professional, so I think coaching at the OHL level is very important.

That's my feeling, at least. I think there are a lot of good young players on the team and reasons to be optimistic. I feel like the organization as a whole is doing a pretty good job given the circumstances they face. It seems to me the board is motivated and have done well with bringing in marketing and promotions to help build up the attendance. Now they need to keep that going and get the right coaching staff in place. I think it's a big opportunity, given the attendance increase, to really build the fan base and keep those fans coming. The games are mostly entertaining, but if they can't start winning consistently, the fans will only keep coming for so long. I think we all remember the abysmal years around 2010-2014 or so, and I sure hope to never see it like that again (by which I mean 1800 or fans and games that would put you to sleep, plus many that were over by halfway through the first).

I'm trying not to be critical of the current or past coaches, because I know I sure couldn't do a thing as coach to make them better. And I have lots of fond memories of Verner as a player, but I really hope the board will bring in a new staff and it will contain someone with passion and vision to really turn this team into a good one for next year and the future.

 

[Section7fan]

I have played competitive sports on many different levels, actually went to school on a sports scholarship. And yeah if you have a completely incompetent coach, but Jody Hull was not that, which is why I have no use for that excuse in this case.


I mean, nearly all the guys on the team were also on the team last year. So last year, Jody got Koro/Ang/DeNoble/Timms/Timleck etc to buy in but this year they decided hes the worst ever and theyre not going to play? Its a weak excuse. Go back and read Ang's comments when he got traded, he openly said he loved Jody

The real reason for the people not wanting to bury their head in the sand is they lost some really key pieces on the back end after last year and didnt even come close to replace them properly.

Honestly, nobody can truly say weather Hull is a good coach or not because none of us have played for him. Hull lost his assistance coaches and it's very possible that the players had strong passion playing for one of them and that would make a big difference.

I agree that losing Jenkins, Prophet and Spencer had a HUGE impact on this team falling from what was last year. You can't replace those players with first and second year players and expect the same or better results. I think it's also possible that some of those guys were great leaders and were able to get other players to buy in whether they liked the coaching staff or not. This team is young and it's possible that nobody in the room is enough of a leader to step up and replicate that.

We can only speculate as none of us are in the room to experience what is actually going on.

 

[NorthernVoice]

No im fine with firing Hull, clearly it wasnt working. Im just saying that acting like this is 100% (or even 70%) Hull's fault and not putting it on the players, is insane to me (not saying youre doing this foghorn, but its the common excuse for a lot of people on here). And on this board, all I ever see is people saying "oh we're bad because of Hull, let Verner take over" 2 weeks later: "Oh we're bad because of Verner, we need a new coach".

Are Hull and Verner the best coaches ever? Certainly not. But you'd also like your players to be able to work with what they have and make it work, especially since the majority of this team (and all the key pieces) were returning from having success with Hull the year prior.

I think expecting Verner to make any radical changes to turn the season around would have been a mistake. I don't think Hull ever got the most of the players here and he was completely outcoached in the conferernce final last season, let's be honest, there was a reason his contract wasn't extended prior to the start of the season.

That said, Verner worked with/under Hull for all those years, so while there was hope of maybe a spark/shakeup with the coaching change and the Ang trade, the fact that it was mostly more of the same systems wise, with maybe the odd player getting a different role wasn't shocking.

 

[Ptbomillsy619]

Hull was a bad coach we can say this. This years team lacked leadership from within denoble is a good captain no doubt but last year prophet not much skill but he’d die for his team first one in last one out. Lorentz has the most charisma on and off the ice I’ve seen on this team in years guys like that in the locker room are key the team didn’t player for hull last year they played for each other and that’s why they did aswell as they did This year no one played for each other it was always one man show trying to be a hero and like has been said playing against systems and determination that doesn’t work and is to easy to play against. The talent up front was there this year. But we lost some key d man spencer and Jenkins put prophet in there that’s hard to pick up the slack with guys like timms out there

 

[Love the Petes]

The problem is very obvious to me. Coaching. Until Grimes got here, the D was a mess and the Petes did not have a winning record. He made every D better and therefore the team was better. Check out the two seasons he was here.

Last year, this Board made Spencer their whipping boy and now that he is gone he was the difference. Jenkins enjoyed his best years under Grimes as well. Poor Osmanski is an NHL draft pick who has not played up to potential because of a lack of coaching. A similar player to Stillman who signed with Florida. Timms played hurt all year and the PP has tanked (3/39) since he left and he is the problem. Fraser was drafted and developing into a very good smart player, and now looks very lost. Coaching is the problem. Good coaches look at the pieces they have and make them work, bad coaches do not.

Watch the Soo play where they never give up possession of the puck, even leave the offensive zone to make line changes to remain in possession. We actually have D that are good puck carries (Chisolm/MacNamara/Timms) but we dump and chase with some of the smallest forwards in the league. Bring back Grimes, bring back Foster. Pay the people who make the team winners.

Look at the improvement in Guelph since Grimes arrived. Just a thought.

 

[the dog]

anyone know if Christopher Paquette plays his OA season....does niagara get extra pick?

 

[Petesfan8]

The problem is very obvious to me. Coaching. Until Grimes got here, the D was a mess and the Petes did not have a winning record. He made every D better and therefore the team was better. Check out the two seasons he was here.

Last year, this Board made Spencer their whipping boy and now that he is gone he was the difference. Jenkins enjoyed his best years under Grimes as well. Poor Osmanski is an NHL draft pick who has not played up to potential because of a lack of coaching. A similar player to Stillman who signed with Florida. Timms played hurt all year and the PP has tanked (3/39) since he left and he is the problem. Fraser was drafted and developing into a very good smart player, and now looks very lost. Coaching is the problem. Good coaches look at the pieces they have and make them work, bad coaches do not.

Watch the Soo play where they never give up possession of the puck, even leave the offensive zone to make line changes to remain in possession. We actually have D that are good puck carries (Chisolm/MacNamara/Timms) but we dump and chase with some of the smallest forwards in the league. Bring back Grimes, bring back Foster. Pay the people who make the team winners.

Look at the improvement in Guelph since Grimes arrived. Just a thought.

 

[Petesfan8]

Hull was a bad coach we can say this. This years team lacked leadership from within denoble is a good captain no doubt but last year prophet not much skill but he’d die for his team first one in last one out. Lorentz has the most charisma on and off the ice I’ve seen on this team in years guys like that in the locker room are key the team didn’t player for hull last year they played for each other and that’s why they did aswell as they did This year no one played for each other it was always one man show trying to be a hero and like has been said playing against systems and determination that doesn’t work and is to easy to play against. The talent up front was there this year. But we lost some key d man spencer and Jenkins put prophet in there that’s hard to pick up the slack with guys like timms out there

There has been a lot said recently on this site about coaching and a lot of barbs thrown at Jody Hull who in a lot of people's opinions was a poor coach.

Let me give you my take. The Petes were not that good a team last year, they went on a long winning streak in late November and December and everyone including the GM, fans and Board Members got giddy. Anyone who had been around hockey could see this. I remember talking to an acquaintance of mine who is a long time season ticket holder and asking him "What do you think of the Petes?" His answer was "They aren't that good. They won a lot of games by one goal, got outshot in most games and had good goaltending. They overacheived. I hear comments that Hull was outcoached in the finals against Mississauga. The truth is Mississauga was a very good team, a much better team than the Petes. Anyone who saw them play here last Thursday night will see that when they decide to play they can play. Their problem is they turn it off and on. A lot of times off.

Then came trade deadline and our GM (not our coach) went out and got Chris Paquette. We gave up a prospect and five draft picks for Paquette (15 goals, 13 assists, minus 35) who is one of the greatest floaters of all times. Is our GM being held accountable for this? or does he have the ear of the board members? Dave Pogue stated some time ago that he would leave no stone unturned until he finds out what is needed to turn things around.Time will tell.

We dont know whether Hull was a good coach, mediocre coach or a poor coach but he is not as bad as people make him out to be. I do know that a lot of players had a lot of respect for him.





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[Voice from the North]

How come no one is putting any blame on the GM who didn’t trade for defense when it was very clearly a need.

 

[Petes]

anyone know if Christopher Paquette plays his OA season....does niagara get extra pick?

Come on man... don' get greedy. You already robbed us blind in that trade as it is!! Paquette -35 this season...

 

[Zebra]

I think they really need to have a culture shift. I think a really driven, visionary coach could really help with that. When you look at the successful sports franchises, they have a culture. I think of the Spurs in the NBA or Cardinals in MLB. Obviously you can't compare those to the OHL, but certain organizations have a real way of doing things that work. The Petes seem to just kind of go with it and have no real guiding vision in place. At least that's how it seems from an outsiders perspective.

It's also been a long time since they had a really good coach (I'd say since Dick Todd returned). You look at the guys who have been in here the last 20 years or so: McRae, Allain, Mallette, Pelino, Hull. All solid hockey people (Pelino with tons of experience) but you haven't seen them really do anything big before or since. They're safe picks who will keep the team running, but I feel like they need to get out of their comfort zone and take a chance. Some of those younger coaches might only be here a couple of years before they move up, but it would at least kickstart things.

I'd be quite okay seeing a coach who shows a bit more passion (of course, showing passion behind the bench doesn't necessarily mean anything, but most of the recent coaches just kind of stand there and shrug). I'd like to see someone who is really into it. Because that will rub off on players.

The days of the long time coaches in the OHL like Todd, Kilrea, even DeBoer are gone (minus Hunter) but I think they need to take the chance on someone who has a real drive and is committed to implementing systems and making players rise to the challenge and be accountable. Even if the risk is you lose him to a higher team/league in a couple of years. And most of all, they NEED a coach who will focus on the defensive game. I love seeing goals as much as anyone, but the foundation ALWAYS needs to be preventing goals, and it seems to me the Petes have ignored that for a long, long time. Even if it's bringing in as an assistant coach a guy who has a long background in teaching and implementing safe, solid defensive systems.

As has been mentioned by others on here, it is noticeable when other teams make adjustments and the Petes can't counter. That comes down to coaching. Making in-game or in-series adjustments. Not just throwing out the same guys and doing the same things that aren't working.

You absolutely cannot put all the blame on coaching. But the truth is the coaches are the ones leading practice every day and are behind the bench every game. They set the tone and the players will follow, for good or bad, the lead of the coaches. I think when you're dealing with teenagers, this is even more important, because it's rare to find a teen who has the leadership and self-assurance of an adult, or professional, so I think coaching at the OHL level is very important.

That's my feeling, at least. I think there are a lot of good young players on the team and reasons to be optimistic. I feel like the organization as a whole is doing a pretty good job given the circumstances they face. It seems to me the board is motivated and have done well with bringing in marketing and promotions to help build up the attendance. Now they need to keep that going and get the right coaching staff in place. I think it's a big opportunity, given the attendance increase, to really build the fan base and keep those fans coming. The games are mostly entertaining, but if they can't start winning consistently, the fans will only keep coming for so long. I think we all remember the abysmal years around 2010-2014 or so, and I sure hope to never see it like that again (by which I mean 1800 or fans and games that would put you to sleep, plus many that were over by halfway through the first).

I'm trying not to be critical of the current or past coaches, because I know I sure couldn't do a thing as coach to make them better. And I have lots of fond memories of Verner as a player, but I really hope the board will bring in a new staff and it will contain someone with passion and vision to really turn this team into a good one for next year and the future.

FANTASTIC analysis-
I think you should be writing for the Examiner!
I believe this is an excellent well thought out piece on the state of the team.
Well done !!

 

[Zebra]

Come on man... don' get greedy. You already robbed us blind in that trade as it is!! Paquette -35 this season...

Good point!

 

[Section7fan]

There has been a lot said recently on this site about coaching and a lot of barbs thrown at Jody Hull who in a lot of people's opinions was a poor coach.

Let me give you my take. The Petes were not that good a team last year, they went on a long winning streak in late November and December and everyone including the GM, fans and Board Members got giddy. Anyone who had been around hockey could see this. I remember talking to an acquaintance of mine who is a long time season ticket holder and asking him "What do you think of the Petes?" His answer was "They aren't that good. They won a lot of games by one goal, got outshot in most games and had good goaltending. They overacheived. I hear comments that Hull was outcoached in the finals against Mississauga. The truth is Mississauga was a very good team, a much better team than the Petes. Anyone who saw them play here last Thursday night will see that when they decide to play they can play. Their problem is they turn it off and on. A lot of times off.

Then came trade deadline and our GM (not our coach) went out and got Chris Paquette. We gave up a prospect and five draft picks for Paquette (15 goals, 13 assists, minus 35) who is one of the greatest floaters of all times. Is our GM being held accountable for this? or does he have the ear of the board members? Dave Pogue stated some time ago that he would leave no stone unturned until he finds out what is needed to turn things around.Time will tell.

We dont know whether Hull was a good coach, mediocre coach or a poor coach but he is not as bad as people make him out to be. I do know that a lot of players had a lot of respect for him.





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I think it's unfair to say that the Petes weren't that good of a team last year. Average or bad teams don't win 42 games; Sarnia set a franchise record this year with 43 wins so saying the Petes were not that good is wrong, in my opinion. And it doesn't matter if you win by one or ten, a win is a win.

Both Mississauga and Peterborough had good depth up front and on the on the D. Mississauga had more star power on their side and it showed in the East final. Mississauga could have had a great regular season last year, just like this year, but they didn't always get maximum effort from their tops notch guys but they turned it on when it mattered.

Right now the Paquette trade looks ugly but I'm not going to write it off until next year. Honestly, he could have gave up the same haul for Bracco or Stephens and still lose to the Steelheads, at least he got a player for 2.5 years instead of a 30 game rental. Look back at the Garlent trade, he came in and helped win a playoff series then had a bad year and rebounded with a career year. It won't be so painful if he and the Petes have a bounce back season like with Garlent.

 

[Section7fan]

How come no one is putting any blame on the GM who didn’t trade for defense when it was very clearly a need.

Would it have worked? Look at what teams gave up for players who wouldn't have made that big of a difference. I think we would be worse off if we traded our picks and young players for a possible band aid in a year where our division rivals sold the farm to go for it.

 

[Ptbomillsy619]

There has been a lot said recently on this site about coaching and a lot of barbs thrown at Jody Hull who in a lot of people's opinions was a poor coach.

Let me give you my take. The Petes were not that good a team last year, they went on a long winning streak in late November and December and everyone including the GM, fans and Board Members got giddy. Anyone who had been around hockey could see this. I remember talking to an acquaintance of mine who is a long time season ticket holder and asking him "What do you think of the Petes?" His answer was "They aren't that good. They won a lot of games by one goal, got outshot in most games and had good goaltending. They overacheived. I hear comments that Hull was outcoached in the finals against Mississauga. The truth is Mississauga was a very good team, a much better team than the Petes. Anyone who saw them play here last Thursday night will see that when they decide to play they can play. Their problem is they turn it off and on. A lot of times off.

Then came trade deadline and our GM (not our coach) went out and got Chris Paquette. We gave up a prospect and five draft picks for Paquette (15 goals, 13 assists, minus 35) who is one of the greatest floaters of all times. Is our GM being held accountable for this? or does he have the ear of the board members? Dave Pogue stated some time ago that he would leave no stone unturned until he finds out what is needed to turn things around.Time will tell.

We dont know whether Hull was a good coach, mediocre coach or a poor coach but he is not as bad as people make him out to be. I do know that a lot of players had a lot of respect for him.


How were they not a good team they had a bumpy start but the got it going when koro paugette black came in they got even better. We had a hot goalie for sure And we did have a lot of one goal games but getting those wins we were down 2-1 3-1 going into the third and found ways to win the team had heart. Dig deep and got it done. With the right system I think these kids can get it done next cpl years. I hope to see a few of the bulk up this off season for some size with the talent


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[Ptbomillsy619]

How were they not a good team they had a bumpy start but the got it going when koro paugette black came in they got even better. We had a hot goalie for sure And we did have a lot of one goal games but getting those wins we were down 2-1 3-1 going into the third and found ways to win the team had heart. Dig deep and got it done. With the right system I think these kids can get it done next cpl years. I hope to see a few of the bulk up this off season for some size with the talent

 

[MoWanchuk1]

There has been a lot said recently on this site about coaching and a lot of barbs thrown at Jody Hull who in a lot of people's opinions was a poor coach.

Let me give you my take. The Petes were not that good a team last year, they went on a long winning streak in late November and December and everyone including the GM, fans and Board Members got giddy. Anyone who had been around hockey could see this. I remember talking to an acquaintance of mine who is a long time season ticket holder and asking him "What do you think of the Petes?" His answer was "They aren't that good. They won a lot of games by one goal, got outshot in most games and had good goaltending. They overacheived. I hear comments that Hull was outcoached in the finals against Mississauga. The truth is Mississauga was a very good team, a much better team than the Petes. Anyone who saw them play here last Thursday night will see that when they decide to play they can play. Their problem is they turn it off and on. A lot of times off.

Then came trade deadline and our GM (not our coach) went out and got Chris Paquette. We gave up a prospect and five draft picks for Paquette (15 goals, 13 assists, minus 35) who is one of the greatest floaters of all times. Is our GM being held accountable for this? or does he have the ear of the board members? Dave Pogue stated some time ago that he would leave no stone unturned until he finds out what is needed to turn things around.Time will tell.

We dont know whether Hull was a good coach, mediocre coach or a poor coach but he is not as bad as people make him out to be. I do know that a lot of players had a lot of respect for him.





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Totally disagree outcoached NO system talk to former players and assistants haha it’s been clear don’t make a great statement then pick out 1 trade then say the GM should go ...cmon break down all trades and picks if you want to crucify the gm maybe you can maybe you’re right but you lost all credibility when you take 1 trade for your point

 

[MoWanchuk1]

How were they not a good team they had a bumpy start but the got it going when koro paugette black came in they got even better. We had a hot goalie for sure And we did have a lot of one goal games but getting those wins we were down 2-1 3-1 going into the third and found ways to win the team had heart. Dig deep and got it done. With the right system I think these kids can get it done next cpl years. I hope to see a few of the bulk up this off season for some size with the talent

Agreed

 

[Section7fan]

Totally disagree outcoached NO system talk to former players and assistants haha it’s been clear don’t make a great statement then pick out 1 trade then say the GM should go ...cmon break down all trades and picks if you want to crucify the gm maybe you can maybe you’re right but you lost all credibility when you take 1 trade for your point

I agree. That is the only trade people can complain about that Oke has ever made in his time as GM. Oke has also drafted WAY better than other GMs in the past. When was the last time we had a 2nd round pick score more points than our first pick? The trades that Reid made were trades that a GM should he held accountable for.

 

[WillardJFredricks]

FANTASTIC analysis-
I think you should be writing for the Examiner!
I believe this is an excellent well thought out piece on the state of the team.
Well done !!

Thanks! Though I will say I think Northern Voice does a great job with his columns and I always enjoy reading them!

 

[Petesfan8]

I think it's unfair to say that the Petes weren't that good of a team last year. Average or bad teams don't win 42 games; Sarnia set a franchise record this year with 43 wins so saying the Petes were not that good is wrong, in my opinion. And it doesn't matter if you win by one or ten, a win is a win.

Both Mississauga and Peterborough had good depth up front and on the on the D. Mississauga had more star power on their side and it showed in the East final. Mississauga could have had a great regular season last year, just like this year, but they didn't always get maximum effort from their tops notch guys but they turned it on when it mattered.

Right now the Paquette trade looks ugly but I'm not going to write it off until next year. Honestly, he could have gave up the same haul for Bracco or Stephens and still lose to the Steelheads, at least he got a player for 2.5 years instead of a 30 game rental. Look back at the Garlent trade, he came in and helped win a playoff series then had a bad year and rebounded with a career year. It won't be so painful if he and the Petes have a bounce back season like with Garlent.

 

[Snipes 29]

How come no one is putting any blame on the GM who didn’t trade for defense when it was very clearly a need.

I have heard from a good source that early into season North Bay offered d man Cam Dineen for our back up goalie Hunter Jones ? Oke wouldn't make deal cause he thought Wells would be gone at Christmas for World Juniors, he played himself off their radar, Dineen would have helped a too young defense core?

 

[Snipes 29]

Can some one give me their info on these possible coaches? John Dean, and Jason Fortier?