Confirmed with Link: Peter Chiarelli New President and GM! Part 2

[Tarus]

Yep, I've alluded to it several times that Lowe might have fractured his friendship with MacT based on events this season.

Interesting to note that this is not the first time Lowe has done this. He did it with Tambellini ---> MacT as well.

It's pretty clear throughout this, that Lowe has been dispossessed of his power to affect the situation almost as much as Mactavish has been.

Lowe made the decision on Tambo, I don't think he had any say in the Chia hiring. He likely even thought that he was just helping recruit Chia for his own position, and Nicholson made the call to pull the trigger when Chia demanded GM and POHO titles.

 

[Dorian2]

Yep, I've alluded to it several times that Lowe might have fractured his friendship with MacT based on events this season.

Interesting to note that this is not the first time Lowe has done this. He did it with Tambellini ---> MacT as well.

So I guess that begs the question.

Are Lowe prerogatives with the OBC or the Edmonton Oilers.

I'm thinking it's the latter.

 

[Cloned]

It's pretty clear throughout this, that Lowe has been dispossessed of his power to affect the situation almost as much as Mactavish has been.

Lowe made the decision on Tambo, I don't think he had any say in the Chia hiring. He likely even thought that he was just helping recruit Chia for his own position, and Nicholson made the call to pull the trigger when Chia demanded GM and POHO titles.

Doubt it. Lowe has Katz's ear and will always have it IMO. He was a key part of talking to Chia in the first place and I'd assume he made it clear to him that:

a) I'll be moving to the business side of things to let you run the ship
b) You can have MacT's job

Nicholson might have been the guy orchestrating things but you can bet that Lowe was fully aware and involved in what was going on.

 

[Cloned]

So I guess that begs the question.

Are Lowe prerogatives with the OBC or the Edmonton Oilers.

I'm thinking it's the latter.

I'm thinking when push comes to shove you worry about your own ass first. Pretty clear that Lowe didn't want to go down with his friend on the same boat.

 

[Tarus]

Doubt it. Lowe has Katz's ear and will always have it IMO. He was a key part of talking to Chia in the first place and I'd assume he made it clear to him that:

a) I'll be moving to the business side of things to let you run the ship
b) You can have MacT's job

Nicholson might have been the guy orchestrating things but you can bet that Lowe was fully aware and involved in what was going on.

Nicholson is a friend of Katz too, and pretty clearly has his confidence as he was most definitely the go to guy on this. It wasn't even a few months ago that Friedman was telling us that Katz believed that he had already effected meaningful change within the organization with the hiring of Mactavish as GM, and now we have a completely new management structure.

With how quickly this went down after Nicholson was given his new title, I'm not surprised Mact wasn't told, and I doubt Lowe was fully a part of the decision making process and negotiations.

 

[Cloned]

Nicholson is a friend of Katz too, and pretty clearly has his confidence as he was most definitely the go to guy on this. It wasn't even a few months ago that Friedman was telling us that Katz believed that he had already effected meaningful change within the organization with the hiring of Mactavish as GM, and now we have a completely new management structure.

With how quickly this went down after Nicholson was given his new title, I'm not surprised Mact wasn't told, and I doubt Lowe was fully a part of the decision making process and negotiations.

I'm not downplaying Nicholson's influence. He probably already had the same extensive powers in the organization even before he was officially given his new title. But I think it would be naive to think that Lowe wasn't aware of what was going on. He was seen meeting and talking with Chia, in what I would have to assume was a "passing of the torch" type of conversation.

MacT not being told is a combination of time, awkwardness (no one wants to have that conversation, especially if it's your close friend you're replacing) and opportunity. Also bear in mind this is the second time Katz has publicly championed MacT, only to see him being replaced mere weeks to months later.

 

[Dorian2]

I'm not downplaying Nicholson's influence. He probably already had the same extensive powers in the organization even before he was officially given his new title. But I think it would be naive to think that Lowe wasn't aware of what was going on. He was seen meeting and talking with Chia, in what I would have to assume was a "passing of the torch" type of conversation.

MacT not being told is a combination of time, awkwardness (no one wants to have that conversation, especially if it's your close friend you're replacing) and opportunity. Also bear in mind this is the second time Katz has publicly championed MacT, only to see him being replaced mere weeks to months later.

Yeah. People have to realize that what goes on behind closed doors and what's released for public consumption are two different things.

But it doesn't really matter now anyways. The scourge has been scoured and purged and somebody did the right thing for both the Organization and the fans who have watched this unfold for the last 10 years. Rather patiently at that.

 

[Tarus]

I'm not downplaying Nicholson's influence. He probably already had the same extensive powers in the organization even before he was officially given his new title. But I think it would be naive to think that Lowe wasn't aware of what was going on. He was seen meeting and talking with Chia, in what I would have to assume was a "passing of the torch" type of conversation.

MacT not being told is a combination of time, awkwardness (no one wants to have that conversation, especially if it's your close friend you're replacing) and opportunity. Also bear in mind this is the second time Katz has publicly championed MacT, only to see him being replaced mere weeks to months later.

I didn't say Lowe wasn't aware of what was going down, just that he wasn't a part of making the final decision.

I just don't agree with your conjecture that Lowe and Mact's relationship would be strained in a similar manner to Tambo/Lowe. Lowe pretty clearly didn't make the call this time, regardless of how much he participated in the actual process.

 

[azashi]

It's pretty clear throughout this, that Lowe has been dispossessed of his power to affect the situation almost as much as Mactavish has been.

Lowe made the decision on Tambo, I don't think he had any say in the Chia hiring. He likely even thought that he was just helping recruit Chia for his own position, and Nicholson made the call to pull the trigger when Chia demanded GM and POHO titles.

I don't know why nobody's paying attention, but it has been made abundantly clear in media - local and national - that Lowe was part of the process to both sideline himself and replace MacT. He encouraged Nicholson to act early on his audit and get Chiarelli.

People forget that Lowe offered to step down last year.

 

[Cloned]

I didn't say Lowe wasn't aware of what was going down, just that he wasn't a part of making the final decision.

I just don't agree with your conjecture that Lowe and Mact's relationship would be strained in a similar manner to Tambo/Lowe. Lowe pretty clearly didn't make the call this time, regardless of how much he participated in the actual process.

He was most definitely a part of making the final decision. You don't get involved with recruiting someone to replace you unless you want to be replaced. And like I said above, when push comes to shove, you look out for number one first. In this case Lowe made sure he was safe and was clearly a key part of the transition, while MacT wasn't part of the process at all.

 

[SK13]

Lowe was explicitly involved the whole way. He was in the room with Nicholson during the Chiarelli interview. There's simply no escaping that.

 

[CanadianSuperPromise]

Sean Burke for Assistant GM + Goalie Coach?

 

[The Nuge]

Sean Burke for Assistant GM + Goalie Coach?

I'd be thrilled if he'd agree to that. He's probably looking to be GM

 

[Mr Positive]

Lowe was explicitly involved the whole way. He was in the room with Nicholson during the Chiarelli interview. There's simply no escaping that.

So? What are you implying that means? I hope you don't mean that taints Chiarelli in some way

 

[CanadianSuperPromise]

I'd be thrilled if he'd agree to that. He's probably looking to be GM

True, he probably want's that GM job but I can't really see anything in his resume that would justify him taking over a franchise. He should probably look towards building up a career, and what better opportunity to do that than under Peter Chiarelli and Bob Nicholson with Connor McDavid.

 

[rboomercat90]

He may not have seen it coming in the fashion it did though. Lowe basically threw his buddy under the bus, got in the drivers seat, and rolled him a few times without telling him anything.

I'd be a little nonplussed as well if I were MacT.

As for McDAVID, SK13 has it 100% correct. No way in hell they trade him for anything. Anyone who plays with this kid is going to be a better player. We'll more than likely see more than 1 superstar emerge from our group of 1st rounders.

So I guess in Mac T's mind it was okay for him to throw Lowe under the bus back in December when he adamantly told the world not to 'lop' him in with any of the previous management. Including the management back when he was the coach. Judging by the timelines and the events that took place it was right around that time when his goose was starting to get cooked.

What happened in December was all the proof anybody needed that Mactavish was not cut out for that job and his days were numbered. The team's record was what made it impossible to ignore. Winning the lottery was probably the final nail in his coffin. He can whine about it if he chooses, to me that just illustrates how entitled he felt about his position. He figures he should be safe, not because of the job he did, but because he's buddies with the people higher up the chain than him. That's why he didn't see it coming and that's what infuriates me. He has less reason to feel "nonplussed" than most of the people who have hit the road in the name of the rebuild before him. Most of them were far more qualified for their positions and did a better job than he did at his. Many of them didn't see it coming either when they were scapegoated to keep the other higher ups safe. It's karma that he ended up no more than a pawn too.

 

[Samus44]

So I guess in Mac T's mind it was okay for him to throw Lowe under the bus back in December when he adamantly told the world not to 'lop' him in with any of the previous management. Including the management back when he was the coach. Judging by the timelines and the events that took place it was right around that time when his goose was starting to get cooked.

How is that unreasonable? Who wants to be judged on the actions of others?

 

[BlowbyBlow]

There is no package, not even that one, that would get me to entertain the idea.

This isn't about getting some imaginary NHL 15 trade value bar to the point where it's acceptable. This is about getting this player in an Oilers uniform for 11+ seasons and the ripple effect it will have on the organization.

We can build the rest around him.

One thing G.M.s, coaches, owners all know its hard to find talented, intelligent and leaders all in one package for players.

Oilers have an intelligent player in RNH, even talented but he's not going to stir the drink leadership wise...he's a calm guy not the alpha male Hall is

Hall is talented, and has some leadership when he doesn't throw hissy fits, but he makes brain dead plays alot and so doesn't have the highest hockey i.q.

Eberle is talented, i would say he is a leader but only by default he has a hockey I.q.

Yakupov, is probably considered less talented don't know why, but i think he's actually got leadership qualities, and he's intelligent

Mcdavid has it all, RNH comes very close you can't exchange versatility and expect to have the same performance from a package you would get.

 

[Dorian2]

So I guess in Mac T's mind it was okay for him to throw Lowe under the bus back in December when he adamantly told the world not to 'lop' him in with any of the previous management. Including the management back when he was the coach. Judging by the timelines and the events that took place it was right around that time when his goose was starting to get cooked.

What happened in December was all the proof anybody needed that Mactavish was not cut out for that job and his days were numbered. The team's record was what made it impossible to ignore. Winning the lottery was probably the final nail in his coffin. He can whine about it if he chooses, to me that just illustrates how entitled he felt about his position. He figures he should be safe, not because of the job he did, but because he's buddies with the people higher up the chain than him. That's why he didn't see it coming and that's what infuriates me. He has less reason to feel "nonplussed" than most of the people who have hit the road in the name of the rebuild before him. Most of them were far more qualified for their positions and did a better job than he did at his. Many of them didn't see it coming either when they were scapegoated to keep the other higher ups safe. It's karma that he ended up no more than a pawn too.

I totally agree. But knowing MacT's tendency to put himself on a pedestal and him thinking he was right is besides the point. I'm just saying that he never saw it coming. Why? Probably because he genuinely believes that what he was doing was OK.

If he had any conversations with himself, I'd assume that he sounded just like he did when talking to the fans. He believed it...nobody else would though.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

How is that unreasonable? Who wants to be judged on the actions of others?

I get what your saying but its sort of like being hired by your best friend, and then everyone takes you to being like your best friend, and not viewed as your employer. That's why in a business its bad to hire friends and family.

 

[rboomercat90]

How is that unreasonable? Who wants to be judged on the actions of others?

In December, Mactavish refused to accept any responsibility for the position the team was in. Even though he had changed out all but five players (I believe this was the number, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong) on the roster since he had become GM. Instead, he blamed all the teams woes on previous management. There was plenty of his actions that he legitimately could have been judged on yet he refused to acknowledge that. In doing that he threw Lowe under the bus. IMO, he shouldn't have been surprised that Lowe threw him under the bus in return four months later.

 

[Del Preston]

How is that unreasonable? Who wants to be judged on the actions of others?

MacTavish had a say in management decisions for nine years when he was the head coach.

 

[rboomercat90]

I totally agree. But knowing MacT's tendency to put himself on a pedestal and him thinking he was right is besides the point. I'm just saying that he never saw it coming. Why? Probably because he genuinely believes that what he was doing was OK.

If he had any conversations with himself, I'd assume that he sounded just like he did when talking to the fans. He believed it...nobody else would though.

It looks like we're going in circles. Now you're arguing my original point that Mactavish would have had to be stupid not to see it coming.

I'll argue your point now. Maybe Eakins and Mactavish were both sold a bill of goods here by Lowe and or Katz. Maybe they were both told they had all the time in the world. Maybe whoever made the promise had no idea how bad things could get for the organization, panicked and put an end to it early. If that's the case then maybe he does have some reason to be upset. I wouldn't normally put much stock into anything Mactavish or Eakins would have to say, IMO, neither ever had an ounce of credibility. The problem for me though is that Pat Quinn, who did have a ton of NHL credibility, also said he was sold a bill of goods to come here after he was fired. He never knew he was in any trouble until Elliot Friedman called him and told him the Oilers were looking at somebody else as coach. Even after the terrible year he had he was genuinely shocked. Why would he be surprised unless he was following a plan that he executed? Just shows how bad this organization has been and how unable they've been to stick to any long term planning. I hope this changes now with Chiarelli in charge.

 

[Samus44]

MacTavish had a say in management decisions for nine years when he was the head coach.

No he didn't, it's why Babcock might leave Detroit and something he said himself. Also in those 9 years the team was competitive, so wtf was the problem then?

He deserved to get fired, but he doesn't deserve the blame for other peoples actions.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

New thread is up.