Peter Chiarelli and the NHL's All Time Poor GM Reigns

[Michael Farkas]

The Isles were only going to make the trade if he was available..... and he was the best player available when the trade happened (when the Oilers were OTC).... so yes they did.....

Absolutely not. They acquired a draft pick, what they do with that pick is not relevant. It's a narrative booster, but swelling doesn't count. In the same way that Pittsburgh didn't acquire Derrick Pouliot in the Jordan Steal deal and Buffalo didn't acquire Ryan Miller in the Rhett Warrener deal, the Isles did not acquire Barzal from Edmonton. How you draft and develop is a separate issue than liquidating the asset.

Maybe if a team acquired a first overall pick or some other consensus pick way up there, maybe top 3, maybe you make the case. It's a largely illogical and indefensible position for later picks. This coming from someone who had Barzal at 7 on his personal draft board, I thought the move was exquisite...but in no way did Edmonton trade Barzal, they foolishly moved good picks for a guy that didn't grade highly even in his draft year...but Barzal wasn't theirs. If Barzal didn't pan out or didn't pan out so well, the narrative would just mention 16th overall...that's how you know It's casual-fan logic, it's flimsy and circumstantial...

There's already a fine case to be made without trying to add garnish...the drink is best consumed without eating the parasol...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Absolutely not. They acquired a draft pick, what they do with that pick is not relevant. It's a narrative booster, but swelling doesn't count. In the same way that Pittsburgh didn't acquire Derrick Pouliot in the Jordan Steal deal and Buffalo didn't acquire Ryan Miller in the Rhett Warrener deal, the Isles did not acquire Barzal from Edmonton. How you draft and develop is a separate issue than liquidating the asset.

Maybe if a team acquired a first overall pick or some other consensus pick way up there, maybe top 3, maybe you make the case. It's a largely illogical and indefensible position for later picks. This coming from someone who had Barzal at 7 on his personal draft board, I thought the move was exquisite...but in no way did Edmonton trade Barzal, they foolishly moved good picks for a guy that didn't grade highly even in his draft year...but Barzal wasn't theirs. If Barzal didn't pan out or didn't pan out so well, the narrative would just mention 16th overall...that's how you know It's casual-fan logic, it's flimsy and circumstantial...

There's already a fine case to be made without trying to add garnish...the drink is best consumed without eating the parasol...

Potentially viable pre amateur draft interview session. Serve drinks with a parasol and watch what the player does.

 

[Voight]

Absolutely not. They acquired a draft pick, what they do with that pick is not relevant. It's a narrative booster, but swelling doesn't count. In the same way that Pittsburgh didn't acquire Derrick Pouliot in the Jordan Steal deal and Buffalo didn't acquire Ryan Miller in the Rhett Warrener deal, the Isles did not acquire Barzal from Edmonton. How you draft and develop is a separate issue than liquidating the asset.

Obviously you didn't understand my post the first time.

The Islanders were only going to make the trade if Barzal was still there at 16. That is the sole reason they made the trade. If he was taken 15th, they likely keep Reinhart and the Oilers pick someone else. So what they did with the pick is very relevant, especially considering Barzal was the BPA so its not as if they reached for a guy and he turned out to be good.

Those two trades were completely different from this one. Snow wanted Barzal (to fill in that #2 C role behind JT) and made a trade. The Pens didn't make that trade just to get Pouliot & the Sabres didn't think "oh boy were gonna get our future franchise goalie with this exact pick!"

 

[Michael Farkas]

I very much understood and already refuted the recycled point above. Let's make it more simple for your benefit: The Edmonton Oilers never had the rights to Mathew Barzal, therefore they could not have traded him to the Islanders.

The Oilers did trade the 16th pick or whatever, that's fine, that's accurate. Ascribing Barzal as an asset of the Oilers is just not correct. That's all.

 

[Chief Nine]

So within a mere 2 years or so, Peter Chiarelli has managed to permanently cripple the Oilers with "amazing" moves such as:

-Matt Barzal+33 overall for Griffin Reinhart
-Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome
-Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson
-Justin Schultz for 3rd round pick
-Milan Lucic for 6 million 7 years NMC
-Kris Russell for 4 million 4 years NMC (seriously wtf?)
-Leon Draisaitl to 8.5 million when every other team got their young ppg player coming off an ELC for 6-7 million
-trading for Eric Gryba, then playing him on an NHL roster, then resigning him for 2 years (again wtf?)
-signing Jussi Jokinen, then trading him for the equally worthless Mike Cammalleri
-choosing Jonas Monster and Laurent Brossoit as backup goalies in consecutive seasons
-failing to resign Tyler Pitlick
-failing to resign Jordan Oesterle

The team has a generational talent on it and had been afforded multiple top 5 picks in the past decade, yet is looking at a potential bottom 5 finish, including a historically bad PK and an NHL worst scoring output from wingers, bottom feeding defense and power play, has one of the worst salary cap outlooks in the NHL, and one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL, with recent 1st round pick Kailer Yamamoto trending towards bust status and wasting draft capital everywhere, including the 2nd round pick the Oilers had to give up to get Chiarelli in the first place.

The sheer incompetence of this one GM during his stint with the Oilers has me asking "what other GMs have managed to screw their teams over as hard as this guy?" Obviously you have your standard Mike Milbury answer, but what are some other GMs that have had a similar detrimental effect to their franchise as Peter Chiarelli has done to the Oilers?

These two are real head scratchers. Everyone knew he was negotiating against himself with Drasaitl, but Russell getting a NMC is really out there.

 

[Chief Nine]

His stubborness and constant bad mouthing of players didnt serve Bruins well during my life time. Do you have another view of his behaviour during the 90s-00s?

That's the way I saw it too.

 

[Jumptheshark]

So within a mere 2 years or so, Peter Chiarelli has managed to permanently cripple the Oilers with "amazing" moves such as:

-Matt Barzal+33 overall for Griffin Reinhart
-Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome
-Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson
-Justin Schultz for 3rd round pick
-Milan Lucic for 6 million 7 years NMC
-Kris Russell for 4 million 4 years NMC (seriously wtf?)
-Leon Draisaitl to 8.5 million when every other team got their young ppg player coming off an ELC for 6-7 million
-trading for Eric Gryba, then playing him on an NHL roster, then resigning him for 2 years (again wtf?)
-signing Jussi Jokinen, then trading him for the equally worthless Mike Cammalleri
-choosing Jonas Monster and Laurent Brossoit as backup goalies in consecutive seasons
-failing to resign Tyler Pitlick
-failing to resign Jordan Oesterle

The team has a generational talent on it and had been afforded multiple top 5 picks in the past decade, yet is looking at a potential bottom 5 finish, including a historically bad PK and an NHL worst scoring output from wingers, bottom feeding defense and power play, has one of the worst salary cap outlooks in the NHL, and one of the worst prospect pools in the NHL, with recent 1st round pick Kailer Yamamoto trending towards bust status and wasting draft capital everywhere, including the 2nd round pick the Oilers had to give up to get Chiarelli in the first place.

The sheer incompetence of this one GM during his stint with the Oilers has me asking "what other GMs have managed to screw their teams over as hard as this guy?" Obviously you have your standard Mike Milbury answer, but what are some other GMs that have had a similar detrimental effect to their franchise as Peter Chiarelli has done to the Oilers?

he traded the pick of Barzel and not the player

and even if they did not trade the pick they were going to take a D man

oilers had McDavid-Nuge-Leon D-- they had depth at center

do not let the actual facts get in the way of the oiler bashing on this site

where is the thread for the PENS trading the pick first? or the thread bashing the bruins for passing on him three times

zippo

 

[Hobnobs]

he traded the pick of Barzel and not the player

and even if they did not trade the pick they were going to take a D man

oilers had McDavid-Nuge-Leon D-- they had depth at center

do not let the actual facts get in the way of the oiler bashing on this site

where is the thread for the PENS trading the pick first? or the thread bashing the bruins for passing on him three times

zippo

Technically Id say you were correct but Oilers knew who Isles were going to pick. So yes, they did essentially trade Barzal + a second round pick for Reinhart. Even if you remove Barzal its still a 1st and a 2nd for an obvious bust.

 

[Michael Farkas]

The Oilers can know anything they want...he was not their player. What the Isles do with it is not relevant to the trade unless you're in to trivia. Your last sentence is spot on though...Reinhart's negligible skating and puck skills was just a surprising add for that price...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Sinden did make some good moves: stole Cam Neely and the Glen Wesley pick from Vancouver, dealt Janney to get Oates from St. Louis, then got a good return for Oates a few years later when he wanted out. Signed an undrafted Geoff Courtnall, who was later moved for Andy Moog. Signed a free agent Reggie Lemelin who helped them finally beat Montreal in the playoffs. His draft record was decent, but had some bad luck with how things turned out with Leveille and Kluzak.

His good moves outnumbered his bad ones. The big problem was that Boston wouldn't pay their players what they were worth, but that blame falls on Jacobs.

He never was able to win the Cup as GM, but had several good seasons. If a GM is a disappointment because he never won a Cup, that's setting the bar really high.

Don't forget Ken Hodge for Rick Middleton, one of the best (or worst) trades ever. Or trading goalie Ron Grahame to LA for their first round pick that became Ray Bourque. Or Espo & Vadnais for Park & Ratelle.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I'd say Sinden definitely belongs on a list like this. Ray Bourque was as loyal as a golden retriever, but if he knows he can't possibly win a Cup on the team he's on that says something. Sinden, and Jeremy Jacobs, belong here I think.

Ray Bourque asking for a trade makes Sinden's reign as GM one of the all-time poorest? Pretty weak argument I would say.

Counter with twelve 100 point season, 5 Cup finals, 24 years in a row in the playoffs.

 

[Chief Nine]

Ray Bourque asking for a trade makes Sinden's reign as GM one of the all-time poorest? Pretty weak argument I would say.

Counter with twelve 100 point season, 5 Cup finals, 24 years in a row in the playoffs.

That’s the good stuff. What about the legacy of failure and flat out contempt for the fans that Sinden was the point man for? You can point the finger at Jeremy Jacobs too, but Sinden was the face of management back then. This continued with Mike Milbury and Mike O’Connell. It took the fans staying away in droves to finally drive Sinden out.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

That’s the good stuff. What sbout the legacy of failure and flat out contempt for the fans that Sinden was the point man for? You can point the finger at Jeremy Jacobs too, but Sinden was the face of management back then. This continued with Mike Milbury and Mike O’Connell. It took the fans staying away in droves to finally drive Sinden out.

Not sure you can quantify contempt for fans. But even if it were 100% true, just another extremely weak argument against Sinden's GM record.

 

[Chief Nine]

Not sure you can quantify contempt for fans. But even if it were 100% true, just another extremely weak argument against Sinden's GM record.

Haha ok.

How’s this for quantification then:

I walked way from the Bruins for 20 years because of the mismanagement and crap that they did to players and fans. If that’s weak to you, so be it. Truth is, Sinden is poison to me and thousands of other Bruins fans. There’s more to GMing than numbers.

Harry Sinden drove fans like me away.

That’s a bad GM.

 

[LeafsNation75]

he traded the pick of Barzel and not the player

and even if they did not trade the pick they were going to take a D man

oilers had McDavid-Nuge-Leon D-- they had depth at center

do not let the actual facts get in the way of the oiler bashing on this site

where is the thread for the PENS trading the pick first? or the thread bashing the bruins for passing on him three times

zippo

Unless a team trades their 1st round and it's obvious who will be selected with it like Tyler Seguin going 2nd overall in 2010 to the Bruins with the Leafs 1st round pick, I hate it when fans say this player got selected with that pick which was traded.

For example the Leafs fans got bashed or mocked because Brian Burke ended up trading up with Anaheim in the 2011 Draft for Tyler Biggs, giving them the #30 and 39 picks to move up to the 22nd overall pick. Yes it turned out to be a bad trade for Toronto with the benefit of hindsight. However did anyone think the Ducks would be selected Rickard Rickell at #30 and John Gibson at #39 and the players they would turn out to be?

Here is another example.

What if Sam Steel turns to become a very good or great player one day with the Ducks. The Ducks selected him with the 30th overall selection which the Leafs traded to get Frederik Andersen and originally that pick belong to Pittsburgh which they traded to Toronto when they got Phil Kessel from the Leafs.

 

[Hobnobs]

Not sure you can quantify contempt for fans. But even if it were 100% true, just another extremely weak argument against Sinden's GM record.

Most of his GM record that is actually great for a GM stems from the 70s when teams still more or less owned the playersthat played for them. Once he had to build himself it didnt go that well. His constant bashing of every player coming through is not great GMing skills. Signing a glue guy to a multi million contract, letting star players walk, mismanaging draft picks, the goalie situation, several extremely bad trades especially post-95 but also before that (Moog and Murphy for Casey? Lol), underrating the WHA and then stubborness kicked in again, firing coaches when they were beat because the other team was better. We can talk about his glory days in the 70s all you like but in the end this guy has a lousy record.

Ray Bourque asking for a trade makes Sinden's reign as GM one of the all-time poorest? Pretty weak argument I would say.

Counter with twelve 100 point season, 5 Cup finals, 24 years in a row in the playoffs.

Why did he ask for a trade? Because after almost 20 years in Boston Sinden couldnt give him a team to win with.

 

[Chief Nine]

Most of his GM record that is actually great for a GM stems from the 70s when teams still more or less owned the playersthat played for them. Once he had to build himself it didnt go that well. His constant bashing of every player coming through is not great GMing skills. Signing a glue guy to a multi million contract, letting star players walk, mismanaging draft picks, the goalie situation, several extremely bad trades especially post-95 but also before that (Moog and Murphy for Casey? Lol), underrating the WHA and then stubborness kicked in again, firing coaches when they were beat because the other team was better. We can talk about his glory days in the 70s all you like but in the end this guy has a lousy record.




Why did he ask for a trade? Because after almost 20 years in Boston Sinden couldnt give him a team to win with.

Well said. When he fired Pat Burns and hired Mike Keenan that was more or less it for me. They kept trying to bamboozle the fans by putting, as my dad used call them "gate openers" behind the bench. He hired a bunch of former players like Terry O'Reilly and Butch Goring to make the fans happy and sprinkled guys like Rick Bowness and Brian Sutter in there. Then he put Steve Kasper behind the bench who was about as qualified as a blind hippopotamus. We all know how that worked out. He finally got a bonafide NHL coach in Pat Burns and then canned him. Then he hired Mike Keenan. That was the end for me.

 

[cupcrazyman]

I read this a week ago and laughed.

How the Oilers gifted the Islanders with hockey's best 2nd line

"Snow then revisited the Chiarelli vending machine this offseason..." -

Vending machine !

 

[Habsfunk]

Where's the love for Rejean Houle? He traded away numerous star players for little return and was an utter failure at the draft table (other than 98). He inherited a team with Patrick Roy in nets and Pierre Turgeon, Mark Recchi, Saku Koivu and Vincent Damphousse up front. Within a few years all they had left was a frequently injured Koivu. They missed the playoffs three straight years under him and the years they did make it were the result of ridiculous goaltending.

He was completely unqualified for the job and it showed.

 

[Hobnobs]

Where's the love for Rejean Houle? He traded away numerous star players for little return and was an utter failure at the draft table (other than 98). He inherited a team with Patrick Roy in nets and Pierre Turgeon, Mark Recchi, Saku Koivu and Vincent Damphousse up front. Within a few years all they had left was a frequently injured Koivu. They missed the playoffs three straight years under him and the years they did make it were the result of ridiculous goaltending.

He was completely unqualified for the job and it showed.

Im guessing he was so obvious he hid in plain sight

 

[Big Phil]

Chiarelli and Sinden are not even in the conversation. If you want to talk about the worst ever, you have to look at people like Harkness in Detroit, Miron in Colorado, Bastien in Pittsburgh, Waddell in Atlanta. Those are GMs who had literally no team success during their time there, and had nothing to show for it as far as prospects go for all those years of futility.

If you want to choose somebody recent, it should be Tim Murray. It's going to take the Sabres years to dig out of the hole he buried them in. I'd trade their current roster, prospects, and contracts for Edmonton's in a heartbeat.

Waddell in Atlanta did mismanage the team I'll agree. If you have Heatley and Kovalchuk as rookies you ought to be on a clear path. However, I don't think he had the "dynasty in the making" potential of Edmonton. The Oilers are very close to making the semis last year and all of us know this team can do nothing but go up right? Wrong. Now they are 10 points out of a playoff spot. It has to be painful to see what Hall is doing in New Jersey and just to imagine what two speed demons in him and McDavid could do.

 

[Big Phil]

I very much understood and already refuted the recycled point above. Let's make it more simple for your benefit: The Edmonton Oilers never had the rights to Mathew Barzal, therefore they could not have traded him to the Islanders.

The Oilers did trade the 16th pick or whatever, that's fine, that's accurate. Ascribing Barzal as an asset of the Oilers is just not correct. That's all.

I would say that even though they didn't it reminds me a lot of how we could have gotten Roberto Luongo in 1997 had we not traded the pick away for sentiment in the name of Wendel Clark. So in a way, you sort of do "lose" a player that you could have gotten.

Ray Bourque asking for a trade makes Sinden's reign as GM one of the all-time poorest? Pretty weak argument I would say.

Counter with twelve 100 point season, 5 Cup finals, 24 years in a row in the playoffs.

Sinden loses here more along the lines of never surrounding an all-time great defenseman with a cast he needed to win. He is reminiscent of someone who pays exact change to a pizza delivery guy when a buck here and there gives him better service.

 

[McGarnagle]

Most of his GM record that is actually great for a GM stems from the 70s when teams still more or less owned the playersthat played for them. Once he had to build himself it didnt go that well. His constant bashing of every player coming through is not great GMing skills. Signing a glue guy to a multi million contract, letting star players walk, mismanaging draft picks, the goalie situation, several extremely bad trades especially post-95 but also before that (Moog and Murphy for Casey? Lol), underrating the WHA and then stubborness kicked in again, firing coaches when they were beat because the other team was better. We can talk about his glory days in the 70s all you like but in the end this guy has a lousy record.




Why did he ask for a trade? Because after almost 20 years in Boston Sinden couldnt give him a team to win with.

Harry wasn't great at the end by any means, and the economics of the game passed him by in the early 80s, but he was far from a bad GM, even then.

His teams won divisions through the early 90s, made a couple conference finals, would've won one of them and probably a cup if not for one of the dirtiest cheapshots in NHL history taking out Neely's knee and hip.

His stubbornness to negotiate on contracts cost him some good players like Oates and Kristich, he never really padded out the roster with top level talent on the 2nd and 3rd lines, relying too much on Oates/Neely to carry the whole offense, and he never had a decent goalie after he drove Moog out of town, but when I think of bad GMs, I think of those who put their team into the toilet for years, who liquidated all the talent they had, who put them in financial hell. You have to think of Lowe, Bergevin, Chiarelli to an extent, or guys like Waddell and Maloney who could just never get out of the basement no matter what they did.

Harry Sinden was a good GM, just not a great one after 1987 or so.

How much of the penny pinching was his stubbornness and how much of it was Jacobs' orders is another question

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Waddell in Atlanta did mismanage the team I'll agree. If you have Heatley and Kovalchuk as rookies you ought to be on a clear path. However, I don't think he had the "dynasty in the making" potential of Edmonton. The Oilers are very close to making the semis last year and all of us know this team can do nothing but go up right? Wrong. Now they are 10 points out of a playoff spot. It has to be painful to see what Hall is doing in New Jersey and just to imagine what two speed demons in him and McDavid could do.

The problem with this is, if you are praising the Oilers for almost making the semi-final last year, partially on the strength of Adam Larsson shoring up the defense and Milan Lucic adding a veteran presence, you can't turn around and crap on the GM for those moves just because things haven't worked out this season. And we don't have to imagine what Hall and McDavid could do together, it actually did occur. The results were underwhelming.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I would say that even though they didn't it reminds me a lot of how we could have gotten Roberto Luongo in 1997 had we not traded the pick away for sentiment in the name of Wendel Clark. So in a way, you sort of do "lose" a player that you could have gotten.

I can't remember but when that trade was made where the Leafs playing where chances are they knew they would be giving up a top 5 pick or not? Plus was Luongo thought to have been a top 5 pick that the Leafs knew what they might be missing out on? The recent example that I know of is when Brian Burke made the Phil Kessel trade and trading those two 1st round picks that turned out to be Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton, with the difference being that trade was made prior to the 2009-2010 season.