GDT: Pens vs Red Wings - 9/30/15: The Day Perron Gets His Shot.

[Asuna]

Lord, please bring the start of this season quickly so we can talk about actual games.

But we'll just complain about those too

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Lord, please bring the start of this season quickly so we can talk about actual games.

You're in for a bad time if you think things are going to get better around here when the games actually matter.

 

[Lomez]

You're in for a bad time if you think things are going to get better around here when the games actually matter.

Which is exactly why most of the thoughtful posters no longer visit or chime in. I'll pop on every so often just to see if anyone has a scoop they've pick up from some source, but if anyone comes on here and expects insight or analysis with very few exceptions, ugh, good luck.

 

[KIRK]

I'm choosing to live in my own world.




I really do hate this team on some level, they should be ****ing ashamed of themselves. They may as well have a hashtag like #SSVeteranPresence on everything. Such a pathetic, disgraceful team with what they'll iced why they'll ice it.

You or I living in Fantasy Land wouldn't be so much of an issue if the the so many members of the organization and coaching staff didn't simultaneously inhabit that land's darkest and most obtuse places.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Which is exactly why most of the thoughtful posters no longer visit or chime in. I'll pop on every so often just to see if anyone has a scoop they've pick up from some source, but if anyone comes on here and expects insight or analysis with very few exceptions, ugh, good luck.

I guess insight only begins with blind optimism and hope for better days. I'm sure we all are missing your extremely insightful posts. Maybe you should set an example for the rest of us.

 

[Sam Spade]

But we'll just complain about those too

And posters will respond with the ever popular "who cares, it's only the regular season, nothing matters until the playoffs".

Rinse, cycle, repeat every GDT from the past 5 season.

 

[KIRK]

And posters will respond with the ever popular "who cares, it's only the regular season, nothing matters until the playoffs".

Rinse, cycle, repeat every GDT from the past 5 season.

So, you're saying this board is a reflection of the Penguins organization?

 

[Allie Kitsune]

So, you're saying this board is a reflection of the Penguins organization?

Wait, now we're pretending that the Penguins can actually cycle?

 

[IcedCapp]

I've been on this board for 6 years, and I've been interneting since its inception (hell, I was BBSing back in the 80s and 90s) and online forums have never been a center for deep, thoughtful, productive discussion. Anyone selling you on that idea is likely pushing the notion to support their own agenda (for example: WAH WAH WAH I DON'T LIKE THE WORDS YOU'RE SAYING, I WILL COMFORT MYSELF BY SAYING YOU AND YOUR THOUGHTS ARE DUMB AND NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE THOUGHTS AND WORDS OF YESTERYEAR)

 

[The Old Master]

I've been on this board for 6 years, and I've been interneting since its inception (hell, I was BBSing back in the 80s and 90s) and online forums have never been a center for deep, thoughtful, productive discussion. Anyone selling you on that idea is likely pushing the notion to support their own agenda (for example: WAH WAH WAH I DON'T LIKE THE WORDS YOU'RE SAYING, I WILL COMFORT MYSELF BY SAYING YOU AND YOUR THOUGHTS ARE DUMB AND NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE THOUGHTS AND WORDS OF YESTERYEAR)

hey! come on now.....that's my best line.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Not true. Bylsma just had more ****-colored paint to work with. Johnston's got pretty colors, but still manages to churn out portraits of garbage.



Hornqvist is the best in the world close around the net. Finding pucks in pile-ups around the crease, causing havoc for goalies and defensemen. He's a unique case.

I'd say Perry and Vanek are definitely better.

 

[IcedCapp]

hey! come on now.....that's my best line.

I sample from the best, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Going to? I get he's been hurt, but this Org doesn't want to root for it's prospects to improve. He's damaged goods in their eyes according to IC.

Perron is about to get the same treatment it seems like. It's so dumb. Hell if Pouliot doesn't improve soon he might get a similar reputation. We are so impatient with players.

I'll happily admit I am wrong if the Pens do the right thing, but they won't and I'll continue to complain about it. They are so close to being a very solid team all they need to do is put the right lineup together

BB is an iron man compared to Dupuis the last two years. Counting on a guy with his kind of condition is a really bad bet and it is shameful the org is letting him try to come back. I'm not going to get into that whole discussion again, but if this org is punishing BB for being injury prone and ignoring Dupuis' health problems they are dumber than I thought.

It's also comical to keep seeing people make the same comments every year about not getting upset about the stupidity that is rampant in this org. Then every season more stupidity follows and those posters fade away from those comments.

There is nothing wrong with being a realist about your favorite team. Being overly negative is lame, but ignoring inherent problems that have plagued this org for years is just as foolish.

If you went to pet a horse and it kicked you in the sack, and it happens again and again and again and again, are you going to be optimistic the next time you go to pet the damn thing that it won't kick your sack? C'mon now...

This team will never progress until they allow real, meaningful competition. If that means older vets sit or play on the fourth line, then so be it. This is about icing the best team, not being The Get Along Gang.

 

[Shaftception]

I've been on this board for 6 years, and I've been interneting since its inception (hell, I was BBSing back in the 80s and 90s) and online forums have never been a center for deep, thoughtful, productive discussion. Anyone selling you on that idea is likely pushing the notion to support their own agenda (for example: WAH WAH WAH I DON'T LIKE THE WORDS YOU'RE SAYING, I WILL COMFORT MYSELF BY SAYING YOU AND YOUR THOUGHTS ARE DUMB AND NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE THOUGHTS AND WORDS OF YESTERYEAR)

You speak truth, though somewhat hypocritical coming from one who regularly goes out of their way to mention their ignore list.

 

[Penguinsyay]

I've been on this board for 6 years, and I've been interneting since its inception (hell, I was BBSing back in the 80s and 90s) and online forums have never been a center for deep, thoughtful, productive discussion. Anyone selling you on that idea is likely pushing the notion to support their own agenda (for example: WAH WAH WAH I DON'T LIKE THE WORDS YOU'RE SAYING, I WILL COMFORT MYSELF BY SAYING YOU AND YOUR THOUGHTS ARE DUMB AND NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE THOUGHTS AND WORDS OF YESTERYEAR)

I've been patrolling this message board and (back when it was a little better) the board on the official site for years. I've just recently remembered why I would never spend a significant amount of time reading posts here or posting. It isn't because it wasn't insightful, there are insightful posts in between the posts of pure whining and complaining. I would avoid the forums because it was too negative, and insightful mostly only in a negative way. Now I find myself complaining more and enjoying watching my favorite team less. Partially because I'm much more aware of the negative aspects of the organization, and can no longer ignore them while watching.

But while a lot of what you say does apply to this forum, I completely disagree with your general thoughts on ALL internet forums. I frequent other message boards related to my career and hobbies (game design, homebrewing, etc) and find those forums to usually contain helpful, informative discussion, supportive people and conversation that is beneficial.

I think the main difference is that a forum for a sports team is simply just a place to talk about your observations of a sports team. Nobody here is contributing to the team or can even do anything about the performance of the team. When all you can do is observe and speculate, and there are many obviously wrong decisions being made, you're going to notice them and complain. People will make observations you don't make and complain about those, or fail to observe what you observed and argue about your complaints. Its just the nature of a sports team forum, how deep can it be, really?

I don't feel like I'm improving myself as a human being by being more aware of the flaws of my favorite hockey team, but at least I can see funny Phil Kessel memes and be around people who watch the same team as me (a rarity, as a hockey fan from New Mexico). The key is to shut off your brain and release your inner flame-demon.

 

[Shaftception]

Which is exactly why most of the thoughtful posters no longer visit or chime in. I'll pop on every so often just to see if anyone has a scoop they've pick up from some source, but if anyone comes on here and expects insight or analysis with very few exceptions, ugh, good luck.

This forum is quite literally the only online home of pittsburgh hockey discussion that isn't predominantly a grossly optimistic hugbox, outside of amusingly enough thepensblog in recent years, atleast compared to how they originated. Though it is an echo chamber of hypocritical cliques I'll grant you that.

 

[JWells16]

I guess insight only begins with blind optimism and hope for better days. I'm sure we all are missing your extremely insightful posts. Maybe you should set an example for the rest of us.

You're kind of proving his point, in a way. I don't think his point was that insight is always positive or negative. It is what it is: insight. He never said he brought a lot of insight, simply that he enjoyed reading. The boards can become too much, at times.

Message boards are the absolute center of overreactions and over-analyzing. It's almost like why 24 hour news channels have become ridiculous fear mongering and over-analyzing the smallest, most ridiculous topics. There simply is not enough news to fill up a 24 hour time slot. Likewise, there really isn't enough Penguin hockey to fill up 24 hours. So what are we left with? Constant overreactions and reading waaay too much into things. There are often three-four days in between games, and we break this three hour event and stretch it into a three day long discussion. It can get to the point where everything becomes hyperbole.

That being said, I'm a huge hypocrite when it comes to this. I watch the game with HF open, check the opinions of others, discuss, etc. I read the GDTs from the previous day and then the +/- post game thread. I've had to consciously tell myself not to overreact, and that sometimes, one game is just one game. It's hard.

And looking at my account, I've been here almost 10 years. ****.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I've been patrolling this message board and (back when it was a little better) the board on the official site for years. I've just recently remembered why I would never spend a significant amount of time reading posts here or posting. It isn't because it wasn't insightful, there are insightful posts in between the posts of pure whining and complaining. I would avoid the forums because it was too negative, and insightful mostly only in a negative way. Now I find myself complaining more and enjoying watching my favorite team less. Partially because I'm much more aware of the negative aspects of the organization, and can no longer ignore them while watching.

But while a lot of what you say does apply to this forum, I completely disagree with your general thoughts on ALL internet forums. I frequent other message boards related to my career and hobbies (game design, homebrewing, etc) and find those forums to usually contain helpful, informative discussion, supportive people and conversation that is beneficial.

I think the main difference is that a forum for a sports team is simply just a place to talk about your observations of a sports team. Nobody here is contributing to the team or can even do anything about the performance of the team. When all you can do is observe and speculate, and there are many obviously wrong decisions being made, you're going to notice them and complain. People will make observations you don't make and complain about those, or fail to observe what you observed and argue about your complaints. Its just the nature of a sports team forum, how deep can it be, really?

I don't feel like I'm improving myself as a human being by being more aware of the flaws of my favorite hockey team, but at least I can see funny Phil Kessel memes and be around people who watch the same team as me (a rarity, as a hockey fan from New Mexico). The key is to shut off your brain and release your inner flame-demon.

Part of what you say is true... That reading on here will make you more aware of the problems this team has... the thing is, this isn't a typical org where the problems are less obvious to casual fans.

When you have two generational talents and flame out of the playoffs six years in a row, casual fans will notice. My dad is a typical casual fan with only a basic grasp of the game. He still refers to Malkin as "Malcom" and thought the guy who won the SC for them was "Tablet".

Even being that casual of a fan, he has noticed many of the things people complain about on here. When my dad starts noticing things like that, it really makes it quite obvious how badly things have been mangled with this org.

You're kind of proving his point, in a way. I don't think his point was that insight is always positive or negative. It is what it is: insight. He never said he brought a lot of insight, simply that he enjoyed reading. The boards can become too much, at times.

Message boards are the absolute center of overreactions and over-analyzing. It's almost like why 24 hour news channels have become ridiculous fear mongering and over-analyzing the smallest, most ridiculous topics. There simply is not enough news to fill up a 24 hour time slot. Likewise, there really isn't enough Penguin hockey to fill up 24 hours. So what are we left with? Constant overreactions and reading waaay too much into things. There are often three-four days in between games, and we break this three hour event and stretch it into a three day long discussion. It can get to the point where everything becomes hyperbole.

That being said, I'm a huge hypocrite when it comes to this. I watch the game with HF open, check the opinions of others, discuss, etc. I read the GDTs from the previous day and then the +/- post game thread. I've had to consciously tell myself not to overreact, and that sometimes, one game is just one game. It's hard.

And looking at my account, I've been here almost 10 years. ****.

I've always remained optimistic when I feel it's warranted and realistic when I feel it's called for. I don't really care about the heartbeat of the board to form my opinions. Some may feel that way, but I'm not sure why.

However, again, six years of flameouts, bungled rosters and asset mgmt can't be ignored. It makes an intelligent fan look foolish to pretend like this org hasn't ****ed up royally.

It also makes you look stupid to assume they won't keep finding ways to **** things up, until they actually prove without a doubt they understand how to do things the right way.

 

[IcedCapp]

I've been patrolling this message board and (back when it was a little better) the board on the official site for years. I've just recently remembered why I would never spend a significant amount of time reading posts here or posting. It isn't because it wasn't insightful, there are insightful posts in between the posts of pure whining and complaining. I would avoid the forums because it was too negative, and insightful mostly only in a negative way. Now I find myself complaining more and enjoying watching my favorite team less. Partially because I'm much more aware of the negative aspects of the organization, and can no longer ignore them while watching.

But while a lot of what you say does apply to this forum, I completely disagree with your general thoughts on ALL internet forums. I frequent other message boards related to my career and hobbies (game design, homebrewing, etc) and find those forums to usually contain helpful, informative discussion, supportive people and conversation that is beneficial.

I think the main difference is that a forum for a sports team is simply just a place to talk about your observations of a sports team. Nobody here is contributing to the team or can even do anything about the performance of the team. When all you can do is observe and speculate, and there are many obviously wrong decisions being made, you're going to notice them and complain. People will make observations you don't make and complain about those, or fail to observe what you observed and argue about your complaints. Its just the nature of a sports team forum, how deep can it be, really?

I don't feel like I'm improving myself as a human being by being more aware of the flaws of my favorite hockey team, but at least I can see funny Phil Kessel memes and be around people who watch the same team as me (a rarity, as a hockey fan from New Mexico). The key is to shut off your brain and release your inner flame-demon.

I think you're correct in two points you make (well, your overall message is correct, to be clear).

Yes, you can find specific-topic message boards that are helpful. It's not just related to your work or to one of your hobbies. I can have a question about Leisure Suit Larry 69: Sex in Space, go to /r/LSL69SNS, ask my question, and get mostly-helpful replies.

However, my point was, in general, the internet is a cesspool. Negativity, sarcasm, dank memes, etc...

I love the hell out of the Penguins, but coming here, it's mostly people hating the Penguins or hating themselves for liking the Penguins. I love the hell out of StarCraft, but if I go to, for example, /r/StarCraft, it's just people hating StarCraft or hating themselves for loving StarCraft.

I also agree that getting too wrapped up in these message boards (sports-related) is a great way to kill the joy of being a sports fan. You stop being a fan and you start being an unpaid employee, analyzing weaknesses, working out infinite combos, etc...

It's one reason I avoid the boards in the off-season. On the other hand, sports is also kind of my job, so I'm used to the negativity.

Further, I'd rather not visit any forum than just be insincerely positive - which I find many people are. Yes, positivity and optimism are great, but false positivity and optimism just make people look like kids who still believe in certain fairy tales. I prefer honesty and realism and all of that. If it happens to be negative, well, sometimes negativity is warranted.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've been on this board for 6 years, and I've been interneting since its inception (hell, I was BBSing back in the 80s and 90s) and online forums have never been a center for deep, thoughtful, productive discussion. Anyone selling you on that idea is likely pushing the notion to support their own agenda (for example: WAH WAH WAH I DON'T LIKE THE WORDS YOU'RE SAYING, I WILL COMFORT MYSELF BY SAYING YOU AND YOUR THOUGHTS ARE DUMB AND NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE THOUGHTS AND WORDS OF YESTERYEAR)

I've never seen a good forum for talking hockey. HF is nice because there's a lot of people, but the good voices get drowned out by the trolls/uneducated posters. There are other sites that are just downright awful. R/hockey was hilariously bad during the Kane investigation, everything was Kane's fault regardless of the evidence and you supported rapists if you didn't agree. Before the Pens got Kessel, any suggestion of bringing in Kessel on r/penguins got downvoted to oblivion. Now, people get aroused just from the mention of Kessel on that sub (now, any mention of Perron over Kunitz gets downvoted to oblivion). I've also been on **************, but it was small with like 10-15 regular posters for the entire NHL.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

There are tons of posters who complain about everything just to complain, Good ole' Wingerz comes to mind and a few others, but most people call them out for just hating life/hockey etc.

I feel like the outpouring of negativity so far in this pre season is that this team, at least offensively, should be amazing.

Plotnikov has looked much better than I would have bet on and can only see his game improving once he gets used to the ice, his line mates, being coached through a translator etc. He has a ceiling, obviously, but he looks like a guy who picked up on the cheap that could hit it.

BB has had a very good camp so far and looks like an improved player. Sprong has played way beyond what anyone would have guessed or expected.

You had in these 3 surprises with a top 9 of Kessel, Horns, Perron, Bonino and Fehr when he gets healthy and there should be tons of reasons to celebrate!

The problem is this team is going to shoot itself in the foot for dumb reasons. Pre Season is a good chance to try things out, but moving Perron with Sid/Kessel for 2 periods isn't trying something out.

Everyone knew before camp started that if Kunitz was here he would be on Sid's wing no matter what. This is where complaints this early come from even the most optimistic of posters. I have little to no trust that this FO/coaching staff will do whatever it takes to win by using what they have. They will gift vets prime spots and hope for the best.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Let's not forget that a lot of us here aren't Pittsburgh residents. I'm from Montreal, so it's not like I have anyone to talk about the Pens with. This is literally the only place where I can discuss Penguins hockey with Penguins fans.

What people do here is no different than what we used to do with our friends (at least those of us old enough to remember the pre-internet days) whenever we got together. I play hockey 3 - 5 times a week, and most of the guys are Hab fans, and I smirk every time listening to these idiots "discuss" the team before and after our game because you know what?

They sound like a message board. Think about it a sec.

One guy *****es about Therrien while the other defends him. One guy thinks Subban is vastly overrated while the other marvels over him. One guy thinks that Plekanec isn't a guy you can rely on in the playoffs while the other says that's EXACTLY the type of player you need to win Cups.

Do I have to get into line combos and who's overpaid and how those conversations go?

Nothing we do here is really that different. The only difference here is I can't call certain people stupid to their face

And if certain posters here were in our locker room getting ready to play in some meaningless game and would tell me "HEY IT'S JUST EXHIBITION!" when it comes to the Pens, I'd tell them the exact same thing I would say here.

This team hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt from anyone, which is why some of the well wishing posters get on my nerves somewhat. For every step forward this organization takes they take they take an equal step back and tend to just run around in place like they're on a ****ing treadmill. I'm sick of it, and I'm sick of their defenders basing their opinions on nothing but the fact that it's a new year.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The offense, should we choose not to **** it up intentionally, should be a phenomenally fun thing to watch. But the overall state of the team, the consistent and repeated idiotic decisions, and looking forward is where all the negativity comes from.

I made a post about it in the Salary Cap Thread. A ton of posts are just *****ing to *****, but a bunch of the negativity comes from a very real source. There's substance to the umbrage some of us take with the team.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Let's not forget that a lot of us here aren't Pittsburgh residents. I'm from Montreal, so it's not like I have anyone to talk about the Pens with. This is literally the only place where I can discuss Penguins hockey with Penguins fans.

What people do here is no different than what we used to do with our friends (at least those of us old enough to remember the pre-internet days) whenever we got together. I play hockey 3 - 5 times a week, and most of the guys are Hab fans, and I smirk every time listening to these idiots "discuss" the team before and after our game because you know what?

They sound like a message board. Think about it a sec.

One guy *****es about Therrien while the other defends him. One guy thinks Subban is vastly overrated while the other marvels over him. One guy thinks that Plekanec isn't a guy you can rely on in the playoffs while the other says that's EXACTLY the type of player you need to win Cups.

Do I have to get into line combos and who's overpaid and how those conversations go?

Nothing we do here is really that different. The only difference here is I can't call certain people stupid to their face

And if certain posters here were in our locker room getting ready to play in some meaningless game and would tell me "HEY IT'S JUST EXHIBITION!" when it comes to the Pens, I'd tell them the exact same thing I would say here.

This team hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt from anyone, which is why some of the well wishing posters get on my nerves somewhat. For every step forward this organization takes they take they take an equal step back and tend to just run around in place like they're on a ****ing treadmill. I'm sick of it, and I'm sick of their defenders basing their opinions on nothing but the fact that it's a new year.

I know that's why I'm here. I have a few friends who are also Pens fans but this is the place to talk, rant, biitch and moan about the team. For sure.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

I love the hell out of the Penguins, but coming here, it's mostly people hating the Penguins or hating themselves for liking the Penguins. I love the hell out of StarCraft, but if I go to, for example, /r/StarCraft, it's just people hating StarCraft or hating themselves for loving StarCraft.

That’s a well-written sentence. I enjoyed that.

I also agree that getting too wrapped up in these message boards (sports-related) is a great way to kill the joy of being a sports fan. You stop being a fan and you start being an unpaid employee, analyzing weaknesses, working out infinite combos, etc...

It’s true, but that’s really how I would approach being a “fan†of anything. I’m analytical by nature, but something – a sport, a hobby, basically any life choice that requires the sacrifice of your resources (time, energy, money, etc…) - SHOULD be approached in such a manner. Critical thinking often takes the “ignorance is bliss†aspect out of anything. I’ll never feel bad about that.

However, again, six years of flameouts, bungled rosters and asset mgmt can't be ignored. It makes an intelligent fan look foolish to pretend like this org hasn't ****ed up royally.

It also should be noted that the same people “complaining†nonstop today were the same ones that picked up on the pattern of flameouts long before “changes†happened.

I've always remained optimistic when I feel it's warranted and realistic when I feel it's called for. I don't really care about the heartbeat of the board to form my opinions. Some may feel that way, but I'm not sure why.

Agreed.

my pessimism is based on:

6 years of team history
all lineups and combinations they've used to this point
statements from the coaches
statements from the players
statements from the media

your optimism is based on:

the calendar

good luck!

i'll be rooting for crosby to score points this year and crossing my fingers every day that i don't click on this board and see that bennett was traded for deryk engelland. it's my bad for thinking things might be a little different this year

Pretty much.