Post-Game Talk: Pens crash the Island: Ned puts the Carkins on his skin and so should you!

[Zbynek]

Still 7 out of 8 in the metro. That’s crazy.

So what? We're 4 points down from the #2 seed Canes, with 2 games in hand.

Lots of hockey to play.

 

[vodeni]

So what? We're 4 points down from the #2 seed Canes, with 2 games in hand.

Lots of hockey to play.

lots of hockey to play, nothing boosts confidence like stringing a few in a row..I missed this game, would prefer a few wins where our goalies are not one of the three stars, but will take it either way

 

[Andy99]

 

[Factorial]

Safe to say the best goalie to ever wear #39 at this point.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7ReZp7CEAAOdtK.jpg

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I only caught a glimpse of the graphic but I believe it said the bottom six has something like 15 goals in the last 13 games?
And that was before Eller's 2nd.
It's a start anyways.

Yeah that's really strong. That's probably counting DOCs goals with Malkin though, which isn't fair.
I'd like to know how many goals the actual bottom-six have scored this year.
Special teams and elevated roles not included.

 

[Andy99]

Oh and Happy New Year everyone…

 

[Andy99]

 

[3ladesof5teel]

We will provably be in the thick of it come trade deadline. And either stand pat, or ad. But if we were out of the race Nejdelkovic could probably get us a GOOD return at this point

If we are in the thick of it you can bet your ass they will be active. It's a reason why GMRH is gone. He didn't do enough, Dubas will absolutely be busy

Br

As you know I cannot watch, so not much weight to this…. However… production, stats, hits, givesways/takeaways etc. suggests he is not supposed to be the odd man out.

He's not very good and not a regular NHLer. You seen his last ditch effort to play his ass off for his career but the fun only goes so long.

Harkins Zohorna and Puustinen should not be regular NHLers on good teams.

 

[Andy99]

If we are in the thick of it you can bet your ass they will be active. It's a reason why GMRH is gone. He didn't do enough, Dubas will absolutely be busy

Yeah, I’m of two minds…if the Pens aren’t really going like gang busters and they’re still on the WC fringes, I’d really like us to go after the assets Jake and maybe Ned would get us…I just don’t see us as real contenders…I understand they won’t sell if we’re in a playoff spot, but I think some nuance is required…are we really going to win a round or two and at least get to the ECF? If not, isn’t it better for the organization overall to get some assets for pending UFAs given the rebuild is close at hand?

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Yeah, I’m of two minds…if the Pens aren’t really going like gang busters and they’re still on the WC fringes, I’d really like us to go after the assets Jake and maybe Ned would get us…I just don’t see us as real contenders…I understand they won’t sell if we’re in a playoff spot, but I think some nuance is required…are we really going to win a round or two and at least get to the ECF? If not, isn’t it better for the organization overall to get some assets for pending UFAs given the rebuild is close at hand?

I don't believe so. A player drafted next year very likely isn't going to be very helpful in the future "rebuild" by the time the team comes around to competing again that player is likely obsolete.

The moment Sid, Geno and Letang were resigned the team committed to putting themselves in the best position it could to compete from here on out. Were all the decisions the correct ones? No but thats the challenge you face.

Hextall is gone because he brought in Granlund as his "big splash" last deadline. I know it wasn't all he tried to do (JT Miller/Chychrun etc) but it is what he ended up with and that's on him. It was a slap in the face to Sid/Geno. "Hey guys here's someone to boost the teams play for one of your last playoff runs." he's stapled to Geno's hip his last years.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So what? We're 4 points down from the #2 seed Canes, with 2 games in hand.

Lots of hockey to play.

They just need to finish with 97+ points, at most. It's that simple.
No one's ever missed with that much in this format.

 

[Turin]

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Smith-Malkin-O’Connor
Rakell-Eller-Puustinen
Trade piece-Acciari-Poolparty/Carter

Pettersson-Letang
Trade piece-Karlsson
Graves-Ludvig

Could be onto something there. I just do not like Graves with Karlsson right now. O’Connor and Puustinen have been really good the past few games.

 

[Turin]

Also wtf, pretty sure Pens are undefeated in the second half of back to backs this season

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Smith-Malkin-O’Connor
Rakell-Eller-Puustinen
Trade piece-Acciari-Poolparty/Carter

Pettersson-Letang
Trade piece-Karlsson
Graves-Ludvig

Could be onto something there. I just do not like Graves with Karlsson right now. O’Connor and Puustinen have been really good the past few games.

I like the look of this, mostly.
Don't see a good reason Z should be scrapped though. He has the best production among bottom-six regulars.
He had a scoring drought, sure. But that's what all our bottom-sixers do.
I don't think Puljujarvi coming off double hip surgery is gonna best him. And I certainly don't agree that Carter is outplaying Z this season. That's just recency bias.

Also wtf, pretty sure Pens are undefeated in the second half of back to backs this season

Correct. 5-0.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Speaking of Petry...

Ludvig-Petry would be a nice bottom pairing. I liked the guy when he was here and at that cap hit we can fit him in over Ruh.

We can fit him [Petry] at that cap hit because we've already retained on him. And as such, we cannot re-acquire him.

 

[wgknestrick]

By what metric?
Until yesterday, Harkins had zero points in the NHL for us and he is yet to score.
Zo has not been hurting us from any stats watcher category.

We suffer when our third pairing is on the ice and to a lesser extend when our 4th line is.

Beyond the PP, we are otherwise, statistically, one of the best teams in the NHL.

Agreed. These couldn't be more different impacts between players. Not even close. Sully is a moron to bench anyone (but me) for Hinostroza, especially Big Z.

(Edit WTF happened to linking images?)

 

[MrBrightside]

The Penguins are 3rd in the Eastern Conference in goal differential. I have no idea whether they will make the playoffs or not but teams with this profile almost always improve moving forward. I know that saying anything remotely positive on here is grounds for a dogpile, but whatever - when the only teams in the conference with a better GD than you are the Rangers and Bruins it's a good sign moving forward.

 

[66-30-33]

We can fit him [Petry] at that cap hit because we've already retained on him. And as such, we cannot re-acquire him.

I thought we have to wait 1 full year?

 

[Andy99]

I don't believe so. A player drafted next year very likely isn't going to be very helpful in the future "rebuild" by the time the team comes around to competing again that player is likely obsolete.

The moment Sid, Geno and Letang were resigned the team committed to putting themselves in the best position it could to compete from here on out. Were all the decisions the correct ones? No but thats the challenge you face.

Hextall is gone because he brought in Granlund as his "big splash" last deadline. I know it wasn't all he tried to do (JT Miller/Chychrun etc) but it is what he ended up with and that's on him. It was a slap in the face to Sid/Geno. "Hey guys here's someone to boost the teams play for one of your last playoff runs." he's stapled to Geno's hip his last years.

By that logic then, the team should trade its 2025 and possibly 2026 first round picks for players who could help then now…the fact that the team is sort of half in and half out of the “we need more and better prospects” perspective is going to do nothing for them…meaning Dubas should do nothing at the deadline (short of catastrophic injury) to help the current team and if he does, then why bother to keep Yager and Pickering? I don’t like the middling approach…pick either 1) go all in on Sid’s last 2-3 years and trade assets for younger NHL players who can help win now, or 2) trade assets like Jake at the deadline for more draft picks and prospects to help minimize the rebuild…

 

[3ladesof5teel]

By that logic then, the team should trade its 2025 and possibly 2026 first round picks for players who could help then now…the fact that the team is sort of half in and half out of the “we need more and better prospects” perspective is going to do nothing for them…meaning Dubas should do nothing at the deadline (short of catastrophic injury) to help the current team and if he does, then why bother to keep Yager and Pickering? I don’t like the middling approach…pick either 1) go all in on Sid’s last 2-3 years and trade assets for younger NHL players who can help win now, or 2) trade assets like Jake at the deadline for more draft picks and prospects to help minimize the rebuild…

Yes, trade whatever now as long as the player coming in makes an immediate impact now.

In Pickering's case he isn't likely worth much so you just hope that his trajectory gets better. He might be one of our better prospects but barely cracks most teams top 10.

With Yager....sure move him out or bring him in. Either way I am in no means committed to him and the organization shouldn't be either.

 

[SEALBound]

What about his brother? 19 points in 25 games iirc.

I'd feel pretty bad if that happened for the family lol. Maybe POJ for Kubalik?

I think they need to build a purposeful 4th line for when everyone is healthy. I know when I talk about bringing in a top 9 player, it usually means I'm slotting someone on the 2nd or 3rd line on the 4th line and people balk at it but realistically I think this team needs to be able to run a 4th line that will outmatch another 4th line. We have to find an advantage somewhere. Say you bring in Kubalik

Jake-Sid-Rust
Smith-Malkin-Puustinen
Rakell-Eller-Kubalik
Zohonra-Acciari-DOC

That's three scoring lines and a very capable 4th line that is of 3rd line quality.

This is an above average defensive team that is also getting exceptional goaltending. That makes sense, because a lot of acquisitions were made with shutdown ability in mind. Jarry and Ned were coinflips, and we lucked out so far.

Also a below average offensive team, much like last year. Getting carried by L1, who've been outstanding.
A lot of guys were changed, but we didn't really bring anyone who's an upgrade offensively over their predecessor, outside of Eller and Karlsson.
Rust found his game, but then Rakell fell off...so those things canceled each other out.
Petry was actually quite good offensively, with 31 points in 61 games. Heavy defensive minutes and not on PP1. EK's gonna get what, 55 points in 82 games on PP1 all year, if he doesn't get hurt?

He's fun to watch and everything, but he's not worth 6 mil more than Petry. It's a money sink.
He started the year well defensively, but now he's getting carried by his D partners and goalies.

I'll just share what I shared in another Karlsson-related thread (in summary):
1. We all knew he wouldn't be getting another 100pts. Most of us had him in the 60pt range and that's where he's trending so I'm okay with what he's provided.
2. He's better than Petry. 100%. He brings so much more than what Petry could have that it's hard to compare the two. That doesn't mean that Petry was bad though.
3. I do not compare salaries/cap hits between the two because you can't. I also don't say stuff like "Oh man, the Penguins are spending $10mil on Karlsson and I don't like that because..." because in reality, you HAVE to say, "Are we better off with Karlsson or Petry, Granlund, and Rutta?" We paid to get rid of those three, which was counterbalanced by the Sharks' "paying by receiving" to get rid of Karlsson.

Craig Button (I believe) just had an alarmingly ignorant article where he said (in summary) "Dubas spent $10mil on Karlsson when he should have spent that rounding out the roster as the Penguins are top heavy and their depth is bad". But again, you can't look at it that way. We didn't sign Karlsson nor did we make the trade with an open and clear $10mil in space. We traded away underperforming assets to get Karlsson. Granlund was a dud and Petry is in HS territory for the Wings. Rutta is whatever, CDS out led us to Ned, and the other stuff...whatever.

So I'm still good with Karlsson. He's better than Petry and DOC, Zohorna, or Puustinen are likely providing more than what Granlund would have.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I like the look of this, mostly.
Don't see a good reason Z should be scrapped though. He has the best production among bottom-six regulars.
He had a scoring drought, sure. But that's what all our bottom-sixers do.
I don't think Puljujarvi coming off double hip surgery is gonna best him. And I certainly don't agree that Carter is outplaying Z this season. That's just recency bias.


Correct. 5-0.

For where he has been playing (3rd line) it hasn't been enough. That's where a guy like Puus stands out. Zohorna has played akin to being a 4th liner. Nothing wrong with that, his size is needed, he needs to use that and has to an extent, but he still falls down, gets exposed.

Yesterday's game showed how effective Puus makes them with his skill that the mirror winger(s) on this team are interchangeable.

 

[Turin]

The Penguins are 3rd in the Eastern Conference in goal differential. I have no idea whether they will make the playoffs or not but teams with this profile almost always improve moving forward. I know that saying anything remotely positive on here is grounds for a dogpile, but whatever - when the only teams in the conference with a better GD than you are the Rangers and Bruins it's a good sign moving forward.

Especially when your main strengths are goaltending and ES chance creation. You can at least theoretically address what weaknesses you have at the deadline… hopefully. This team is very weird. Their results profile doesn’t intuitively match their roster just looking at it.

 

[SEALBound]

By that logic then, the team should trade its 2025 and possibly 2026 first round picks for players who could help then now…the fact that the team is sort of half in and half out of the “we need more and better prospects” perspective is going to do nothing for them…meaning Dubas should do nothing at the deadline (short of catastrophic injury) to help the current team and if he does, then why bother to keep Yager and Pickering? I don’t like the middling approach…pick either 1) go all in on Sid’s last 2-3 years and trade assets for younger NHL players who can help win now, or 2) trade assets like Jake at the deadline for more draft picks and prospects to help minimize the rebuild…

The month of January will be HUGE for this team. They really, REALLY need to help Dubas determine where they are at. If they are out, they need to go conservative and ship valuable assets out. Ideally, you get a roster player back and then just roll with whatever.

Say it's Vancouver. Get Kuz and a 1st. Send Neds out for a 2nd/3rd, and see if Carter, Zohorna, Ruddy, etc are worth anything. Then if lightning strikes, awesome. If not, they did proper asset management and you go after it again next year. Getting Carter off the roster and having the likes of DOC, Puustinen, Big Z, and potentially Yager should help them bring in a higher dollar wing.

 

[Fordy]

puustinen ain't long for this league folks, his TOI has gone down every single game for 2 weeks now. 7 points in 10 games means nothing if harkins and carter are finally putting a couple on the board