Post-Game Talk: Pens crash the Island: Ned puts the Carkins on his skin and so should you!

[SomeDude]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7ReZp7CEAAOdtK.jpg

that’s the joke .gif

 

[Andy99]

Yes, trade whatever now as long as the player coming in makes an immediate impact now.

In Pickering's case he isn't likely worth much so you just hope that his trajectory gets better. He might be one of our better prospects but barely cracks most teams top 10.

With Yager....sure move him out or bring him in. Either way I am in no means committed to him and the organization shouldn't be either.

I feel pretty differently about it…trade Jake if you can get a good return and replace him w Yager or someone younger who can score, even a prosepct…don’t want him walking away at the end of the season and I don’t want to resign him to what he’ll command…also would trade players for more first or second round picks and prospects and try to mix those prospects into the older roster…I’d play them

puustinen ain't long for this league folks, his TOI has gone down every single game for 2 weeks now. 7 points in 10 games means nothing if harkins and carter are finally putting a couple on the board

Also demoted to PP2…yep, he’s getting the Sullivan Riikola treatment lol

 

[BusinessGoose]

My lord, we really got people wanting a petry re-tread?

 

[Fordy]

I feel pretty differently about it…trade Jake if you can get a good return and replace him w Yager or someone younger who can score, even a prosepct…don’t want him walking away at the end of the season and I don’t want to resign him to what he’ll command…also would trade players for more first or second round picks and prospects and try to mix those prospects into the older roster…I’d play them


Also demoted to PP2…yep, he’s getting the Sullivan Riikola treatment lol

and yet he's still producing in single digits minutes on a lower line. too bad it doesn't matter, after 30 games harkins finally made an impact once

 

[SEALBound]

puustinen ain't long for this league folks, his TOI has gone down every single game for 2 weeks now. 7 points in 10 games means nothing if harkins and carter are finally putting a couple on the board

I fear that you are right but I think it will be for a couple different reasons:
1. I don't think it's Harkins and Carter but rather DOC. DOC is playing the type of game the coaches want to see. My hunch is that he saw Puustinen come in and produce and figured he needed to get his ass in gear otherwise he'd be the one going down (which honestly, until late, wasn't that farfetched of a suggestion).

2. It will mean that Rust is back and thus, no openings in the top 6. Puustinen will work best when in the top 6. You can stick Harkins on the 4th line and give him 2min of total ice time and not worry one iota about it. Puustinen, not so much. You want him on the top lines and you want him scoring. So it goes back to the classic "top line AHL min > bottom NHL min" for development.

I think that's what's "most likely". Now that said, if I'm Sullivan, I think I take the opportunity to tinker a bit.

Jake-Sid-Rust
Smith-Geno-DOC
Rakell-Eller-Puustinen
Zoho-Acciari-Farter

If DOC performs, that's a worthy top 9. You can readjust bottom 6 lines situationally if a defensive line is needed.

 

[Andy99]

I fear that you are right but I think it will be for a couple different reasons:
1. I don't think it's Harkins and Carter but rather DOC. DOC is playing the type of game the coaches want to see. My hunch is that he saw Puustinen come in and produce and figured he needed to get his ass in gear otherwise he'd be the one going down (which honestly, until late, wasn't that farfetched of a suggestion).

2. It will mean that Rust is back and thus, no openings in the top 6. Puustinen will work best when in the top 6. You can stick Harkins on the 4th line and give him 2min of total ice time and not worry one iota about it. Puustinen, not so much. You want him on the top lines and you want him scoring. So it goes back to the classic "top line AHL min > bottom NHL min" for development.

I think that's what's "most likely". Now that said, if I'm Sullivan, I think I take the opportunity to tinker a bit.

Jake-Sid-Rust
Smith-Geno-DOC
Rakell-Eller-Puustinen
Zoho-Acciari-Farter

If DOC performs, that's a worthy top 9. You can readjust bottom 6 lines situationally if a defensive line is needed.

Honestly, I’m not touching Rakell on that top line…what I’d do is a little different…I think Smith is the top six winger doing the least…maybe Eller gets Smith’s ass in gear and he can make the third line a scoring threat along w Puusty

Jake-Sid-Rakell
DOC-Geno-Rust
Smith-Eller-Puusty
whatever

 

[Pancakes]

I really like our lines right now. Even Harkins is playing well. Carter has occasionally done something productive also.

I hope Rust doesn't push Puustinen out of the lineup. But we all know how these things go.

 

[Fordy]

Honestly, I’m not touching Rakell on that top line…what I’d do is a little different…I think Smith is the top six winger doing the least…maybe Eller gets Smith’s ass in gear and he can make the third line a scoring threat along w Puusty

Jake-Sid-Rakell
DOC-Geno-Rust
Smith-Eller-Puusty
whatever

definitely. smith is the one guy not playing well right now and should be the one moved down when rust returns. doc has already played both wings this year and should be sliding over. he's playing great but is still a beat off of truly finishing a lot of his golden opportunities, and smith is doing nothing to help that

 

[SEALBound]

Honestly, I’m not touching Rakell on that top line…what I’d do is a little different…I think Smith is the top six winger doing the least…maybe Eller gets Smith’s ass in gear and he can make the third line a scoring threat along w Puusty

Jake-Sid-Rakell
DOC-Geno-Rust
Smith-Eller-Puusty
whatever

Yeah, I'd be down with that. Like I said, experimenting with lines without immediately going back to the combos that largely had us at sub .500...which sadly is what I fully expect them to do.

I wouldn't be shocked at:
Jake-Sid-Rust
Smith-Geno-Rakell
Zoho-Eller-DOC
Harks-Acciari-Carter

Which would make me sad.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I feel pretty differently about it…trade Jake if you can get a good return and replace him w Yager or someone younger who can score, even a prosepct…don’t want him walking away at the end of the season and I don’t want to resign him to what he’ll command…also would trade players for more first or second round picks and prospects and try to mix those prospects into the older roster…I’d play them


Also demoted to PP2…yep, he’s getting the Sullivan Riikola treatment lol

Definitely need to pump the brakes for Yager replacing Jake. If that was the case he would be up here already. Jake is a top winger in this league. Who knows what or if Yager is an NHL player.

I am sure Sid and Geno would be thrilled with us getting rid of our wingers and replacing them with 1st and 2nd rounders with no NHL experience on their final years. Crazy talk if you ask me.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

puustinen ain't long for this league folks, his TOI has gone down every single game for 2 weeks now. 7 points in 10 games means nothing if harkins and carter are finally putting a couple on the board

Puustinen is the same situation as Zohorna. Fringe players who shouldn't be staples in the league but when you initially bring them up you might get some good play because let's face it they are playing for their careers.

Eventually their play will resort to why they are not everyday NHL players and they will be hurting your team more than helping.

Cool stories but you need better if you want to compete and those guys aren't cutting it everyday.

 

[Fordy]

Puustinen is the same situation as Zohorna. Fringe players who shouldn't be staples in the league but when you initially bring them up you might get some good play because let's face it they are playing for their careers.

Eventually their play will resort to why they are not everyday NHL players and they will be hurting your team more than helping.

Cool stories but you need better if you want to compete and those guys aren't cutting it everyday.

he has 7 points in 10 games, and one snipe that didn't count. his level of play has in no way changed, in fact he's maintaining his production in less minutes on a lower line. still waiting to find out why he's a defensive liability at this level and all that as well

 

[Andy99]

Definitely need to pump the brakes for Yager replacing Jake. If that was the case he would be up here already. Jake is a top winger in this league. Who knows what or if Yager is an NHL player.

I am sure Sid and Geno would be thrilled with us getting rid of our wingers and replacing them with 1st and 2nd rounders with no NHL experience on their final years. Crazy talk if you ask me.

That’s true, but they’re players so they’ll always be delusional about the team and their chances…they’ve done it in the past so they’re hardwired to think they’ll do it again regardless of their age lol

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'd feel pretty bad if that happened for the family lol. Maybe POJ for Kubalik?

I think they need to build a purposeful 4th line for when everyone is healthy. I know when I talk about bringing in a top 9 player, it usually means I'm slotting someone on the 2nd or 3rd line on the 4th line and people balk at it but realistically I think this team needs to be able to run a 4th line that will outmatch another 4th line. We have to find an advantage somewhere. Say you bring in Kubalik

Jake-Sid-Rust
Smith-Malkin-Puustinen
Rakell-Eller-Kubalik
Zohonra-Acciari-DOC

That's three scoring lines and a very capable 4th line that is of 3rd line quality.

I'll just share what I shared in another Karlsson-related thread (in summary):
1. We all knew he wouldn't be getting another 100pts. Most of us had him in the 60pt range and that's where he's trending so I'm okay with what he's provided.
2. He's better than Petry. 100%. He brings so much more than what Petry could have that it's hard to compare the two. That doesn't mean that Petry was bad though.
3. I do not compare salaries/cap hits between the two because you can't. I also don't say stuff like "Oh man, the Penguins are spending $10mil on Karlsson and I don't like that because..." because in reality, you HAVE to say, "Are we better off with Karlsson or Petry, Granlund, and Rutta?" We paid to get rid of those three, which was counterbalanced by the Sharks' "paying by receiving" to get rid of Karlsson.

Craig Button (I believe) just had an alarmingly ignorant article where he said (in summary) "Dubas spent $10mil on Karlsson when he should have spent that rounding out the roster as the Penguins are top heavy and their depth is bad". But again, you can't look at it that way. We didn't sign Karlsson nor did we make the trade with an open and clear $10mil in space. We traded away underperforming assets to get Karlsson. Granlund was a dud and Petry is in HS territory for the Wings. Rutta is whatever, CDS out led us to Ned, and the other stuff...whatever.

So I'm still good with Karlsson. He's better than Petry and DOC, Zohorna, or Puustinen are likely providing more than what Granlund would have.

60 points and bad defense isn't good enough for 11.5M. He needs to defend more like he did early in the year.
If Petry played in Karlsson's role with his amount of games, he ends up with like 50 points last year. It's not that big of a difference.
And Petry defended better than EK, with a more defensive role. Karlsson has the benefit of much better goaltending here than Petry got. Makes everyone look better. Less blame for goals against.
The problem is JP wouldn't have been able to do it again, at his age, so we had to get rid of him.

I didn't feel that Rutta was underperforming relative to his cap hit. I'm okay with paying a little bit more for a good 3rd pair D if he PK's as well. Petry was maybe 1M overpaid, but that woulda gotten worse this year like I said.
Granlund was like 3+ mil overpaid though...and that was a core problem.

CDS out for Ned was sort of a dice roll that worked out so far. Ned sucked the last 2 years. DeSmith is killing it in Vancouver atm.

I think it was the right move to do ultimately, because of the long term ramifications, but we haven't really made that much progress. Maybe over time it'll show more.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

For where he has been playing (3rd line) it hasn't been enough. That's where a guy like Puus stands out. Zohorna has played akin to being a 4th liner. Nothing wrong with that, his size is needed, he needs to use that and has to an extent, but he still falls down, gets exposed.

Yesterday's game showed how effective Puus makes them with his skill that the mirror winger(s) on this team are interchangeable.

Z isn't scoring like a 4th liner. He leads all the bottom-six regulars.
Our 4th liners last year were at like 1.30 or worse for the year. This is an upgrade.

He just needs more minutes to get more points. It's hard to do much with 6:33 5v5 TOI per game and 67.5% D-zone starts. Plus he didn't play in 6 games this year. If he's not on special teams he should get more ES time.

Puustinen is having a hot start. It's tough to use him as a comparison until we get a larger sample at this level. We'll see where he balances out over the long term. Good luck to the kid though. I'm optimistic.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

he has 7 points in 10 games, and one snipe that didn't count. his level of play has in no way changed, in fact he's maintaining his production in less minutes on a lower line. still waiting to find out why he's a defensive liability at this level and all that as well

Riding the wave, great story but he's not an answer.

Back to Finland eventually

 

[Ugene Magic]

View attachment 794097

Z isn't scoring like a 4th liner. He leads all the bottom-six regulars.
Our 4th liners last year were at like 1.30 or worse for the year. This is an upgrade.

He just needs more minutes to get more points. It's hard to do much with 6:33 5v5 TOI per game and 67.5% D-zone starts. Plus he didn't play in 6 games this year. If he's not on special teams he should get more ES time.

Puustinen is having a hot start. It's tough to use him as a comparison until we get a larger sample at this level. We'll see where he balances out over the long term. Good luck to the kid though. I'm optimistic.

If you are going to compare to last season is an equal tragedy, sure, you might pull a positive.

The Pens, where the helpless are overrated due to there not being better available.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If you are going to compare to last season is an equal tragedy, sure, you might pull a positive.

The Pens, where the helpless are overrated due to there not being better available.

4th liners generally score like 1.40 5v5 P/P60 or worse over a full season in this league. Z's at 2.21.
He's genuinely not scoring poorly. It's just an absence of minutes that's the problem now.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Still 7 out of 8 in the metro. That’s crazy.

But 4 points out of 2nd, and 1 point out of wc2. As long as they keep playing this way things will work themselves out.

 

[66-30-33]

My lord, we really got people wanting a petry re-tread?

I don't get the Petry hate, guy was actually good on this team.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I also don't get the Petry hate but do not want him back.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Just gotta keep grinding out wins like this.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I don't get the Petry hate, guy was actually good on this team.

I liked Petry and I feel like injuries aside he was solid and only going to be better.

That being said EK is light years better than Petry and if you get a chance to grab one of the best offensive defenseman in the history of the game you go and get him without blinking. He is a stud

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't get the Petry hate, guy was actually good on this team.

People don't understand hockey / watch the game.

 

[BillyOcean]

My lord, we really got people wanting a petry re-tread?

A lot of people only watch penguins games and never appreciate the talents of players unless they've seen them on the penguins.