Post-Game Talk: Pens 3, Caps 1: The Situation is Very Confused

[SEALBound]

I really want those guys gone, and its just as much because what it would mean for the atmosphere of the room as it is for their on ice play.

If I was JR I would have nuked that "locker room" the second I got in there. I get that Dupuis is a good guy and everyone like him. I do. They all want him back. Is it because he's a good player...or is it because he's a good guy and well liked? Good locker room guy...that people want back...so THEY don't have be the locker room guy. Once Dupuis comes back...everything can go back to the way it was Ahhhh...comfort.

Too much of a "good thing" can be bad. We are seeing this now from top to bottom.

Think about this quote:

Good times make soft people, soft people make bad times, bad times make strong people, strong people make good times.

Think about where were are in that cycle...

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I really hate the argument that allowing more obstruction reduces concussions. There is not a single bit of tangible evidence to support such a notion yet old school hockey people trot it out like it's accepted fact. I also believe it's been reported that the league feels the same way.

It's beyond ridiculous. The only things more obstruction causes are lower scoring hockey and minimizing the advantage skilled players have over lesser players.

 

[Joejosh999]

Oli is adjusting to the speed and pace of the game. He has missed some real time and needs to get back to things. I am sure he will be monitored for his medical issue, but he is playing better. the player who has to start playing is Hornqvist. Maybe Sid can help him. but with Sprong, BB if he can stay healthy Fehr, and Perron who is a RH RW player, he has to be better. He can be the forward ST Louis needs and a swap for Shattenkirk is fine by me. That actually frees up a trade that we all know has to be made if Shattenkirk is running the PP.

Chet I hope you're right man! I hope Olli can adjust but I do know first hand how tough it is to make a difference when your energy is so low....

Re Horny i think it's the same pattern we've seen, opponents double team Crosby and dare Horny or whatever fossil Is on the LW to beat them, and that's not really his game. Gotta get going though, as do so many in the lineup.

Honestly when KUnitz got some shifts, Crosby's brain just de-railed, with the idiot passes and what not.
Was he trying to help his BFF Earnditz by forcing the puck to him?
Or was he (passive-aggressively) sticking it to the coaching staff?

This is what I have been reduced to LOL!!!

 

[Jag68Sid87]

http://www.tsn.ca/what-is-wrong-with-sidney-crosby-1.384666

Tocchet saying Sid needs to drive the net more and how he cant play a perimeter game.

He's right. Last night on that poor decision with the puck play, he HAD to drive the net there and cause something positive to happen. He didn't, he curled and waited and made a terrible pass.

It's nearly impossible to want adjustments based on prior years in the NHL. It's silly. You aren't getting some 1980s winger. You aren't getting a fighter who serves no purpose because it made sense 10 years ago.

So what do you want? You just want to complain about better days.

Is that what I said?? I admitted we will never see that era of hockey ever return.

But does that mean that the NHL shouldn't try to adapt to make their game more entertaining? If you are taking away the Physical/Fighting element, and they have, don't you have to replace that entertainment value elsewhere?

Laugh all you want, but fans stood and cheered fights. Fans stood and cheered goals. Fans stood and cheered breakaways and 3 on 1's. Not one of those occurred last night and you think I'm the silly one??? I find it silly that people are spending thousands of dollars on that product I watched last night.

Cole, YOU said it the other day! About how the league is so much worse now. If it's OK when you say it, why not when somebody else says it? I don't understand.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If I was JR I would have nuked that "locker room" the second I got in there. I get that Dupuis is a good guy and everyone like him. I do. They all want him back. Is it because he's a good player...or is it because he's a good guy and well liked? Good locker room guy...that people want back...so THEY don't have be the locker room guy. Once Dupuis comes back...everything can go back to the way it was Ahhhh...comfort.

Too much of a "good thing" can be bad. We are seeing this now from top to bottom.

Think about this quote:

Good times make soft people, soft people make bad times, bad times make strong people, strong people make good times.

Think about where were are in that cycle...

I get not moving Dupuis. For one, I don't know who would have taken him coming back from that. For another, I do think some level of the human element can be considered and it would have been extremely cold to trade him before he even came back. But this deadline? Yeah, I'd move him.

Scuds is all but unmoveable, I think the mistake was not recognizing that during the buyout time. But honestly, if we use this year as a retool year anyway, it may be better to cut the buyout penalty in half. If at any point a team is willing to take Scuds from us, we better take it though.

Kunitz should have been gone to the highest bidder. His value has to be less now that he's proved he's not really better than last year and it probably wasn't a fluke bad stretch, but I'd still move him if possible. Addition by subtraction.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Why shouldn't we talk about the state of the game? It's kind of a big deal. It's worth complaining about. It's trash.

I sometimes think that there are more than a few who are secretly pleased with the way hockey looks, now. Gettin' all hot and bothered over shot blocks, gapping up, "little things" etc.

 

[Shady Machine]

My issue with complaining about the state of the NHL is that the Penguins are intentionally playing a boring game. Sure obstruction is back and scoring is down in general, but the Penguins are 29th in the NHL in scoring with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, etc.

It's not the league's fault that 28 other teams are scoring more than us. It's not the league's fault that the Penguins are currently one of the least exciting teams to watch (IMO at least).

Let's complain about the league when it's warranted and blame the Penguins for their playing style when it's warranted.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Even my sister's boyfriend who knows nothing about sports in general knew that this team was soft as baby ****.

He asked, 'Why are the Pittsburgh players just standing there?"

This was during the scrum when Wilson grabbed Hornqvist and started dragging him across the ice like a child. Not only that, but they were not given a man advantage. More evidence the NHL cannot be relied on nor will ever be to police a hockey game.

Powerplay cannot be a deterrent when the puck does not go into the net. Not only that, but what's going to stop a Wilson or Martin from targeting Crosby or Malkin late in a lopsided game?

Wilson was running around all game. And, he is more than willing to fight. I remember watching him do the exact same thing against Columbus. Dalton Prout had enough and challenged him to a fight. Guess what? Prout dropped him like a sack of potatoes, and Wilson was a complete non-factor for the rest of the game. Ryan Reaves did this to Wilson as well.

This team does have a few players who are willing to throw hits. Hornqvist, Perron, and Bennett laid some nice ones. However, Pittsburgh does not have a big body presence who is going to put fear into the opposition.

Having a tough team will never be a perfect deterrent. Although it is significantly better than the current method this team has currently.

Gudbranson, Simmonds, Lowry, and Byfuglien are out of the price range. Marcus Foligno, McIlrath, Deslauriers, Prout, Bordeleau can be had at a medium to low price. They can contribute on the ice and bring needed physicality/size.

OK, I got my pro-toughness argument out of the way. Here are a few of assessments of the game last night:

- Beau Bennett deserves to be in the top-six. He brings skill, size, two-way play, good mobility, some grit. It blows my mind why he has not been given these opportunities.

- Bonino and Cullen were solid in their defensive assignments and provided offensively.

- Why was Plotnikov was scratched in favor of Kevin Porter? He was needed in a game like this.

- Fleury deserves to be in the conversation of the elite goalies in the NHL. Has made so many strides in his game. Very poised.

- Perron had a better overall game. Hornqvist, too. Threw their bodies around effectively.

- Dumoulin was Bouwmeester like (not as good as a skater). Still a damn good complement. Lovejoy broke up some key plays; good performance by him.

 

[Artie Party]

Kunitz should have been gone to the highest bidder. His value has to be less now that he's proved he's not really better than last year and it probably wasn't a fluke bad stretch, but I'd still move him if possible. Addition by subtraction.

The problem with Kunitz is his value is now a diminishing return, rapidly approaching the point where you may not be able to move him with out retaining salary for the remainder of his contract. The longer they wait to trade him, the more liability per se the team takes on.

This doesn't even take in to account how much he hurts the team on the ice playing a top 9 role.

 

[madinsomniac]

Why shouldn't we talk about the state of the game? It's kind of a big deal. It's worth complaining about. It's trash.

I sometimes think that there are more than a few who are secretly pleased with the way hockey looks, now. Gettin' all hot and bothered over shot blocks, gapping up, "little things" etc.

The GMs, not the Owners, shape the game... it's long been understood that most gm's prefer talent being mitigated... It make it easier for them to compete without doing a good job... That is why we hear that obstruction stops concussions....

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

My issue with complaining about the state of the NHL is that the Penguins are intentionally playing a boring game. Sure obstruction is back and scoring is down in general, but the Penguins are 29th in the NHL in scoring with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, etc.

It's not the league's fault that 28 other teams are scoring more than us. It's not the league's fault that the Penguins are currently one of the least exciting teams to watch (IMO at least).

Let's complain about the league when it's warranted and blame the Penguins for their playing style when it's warranted.

The game is about stick work, clogging lanes, and everyone crowding the middle of the D zone so nothing gets through, and it's been that way for awhile. The players keep naturally getting bigger and the rink is too small now, but we can't take out a row of seats because the owners would freak. That doesn't matter anyways though because everyone would coach to ignore that extra space and continue to clog the middle of the ice and force everyone outside anyways. Last night's game not withstanding, you hardly see a physical game played anymore because everyone is too damn worried about making sure they're in the exact right spot in every single possible situation. This all works to neuter any creativity, instinct, and quick decision making, three things that make the game great.

Those are league-wide problems.

 

[Saints11]

Last couple games, Sprong's been OK, but I don't think he's giving the GM a reason to keep him up after 9 games (although he did have a sweet deflection on Rinne in the last game). He's been a little more pedestrian since missing time for his Visa issue.

The only reason he isn't showing more is because our junior coach refuses to play him more. JR has said he thinks he has demonstrated enough to be here. However Coach Num**** doesn't want to keep him. He can't show without ice time. This disconnect between our deer in the headlights HC and the GM has to end, and it should end with one of them being let go. Hopefully, it is junior boy.

 

[Saints11]

My biggest takeaway from last nights game was how boring the NHL has become. I understand the days of run and gun early 90's hockey are gone forever. But the product that I watched last night was sterile and over coached. When you throw in goalies who now take up at least 25 to 45% more net, I'm not sure where the entertainment value will come from.

I also understand that there are hard core hockey fans that find the beauty in a blocked shot or a solid back check, I don't agree with them, but I get it. Outside of the 3 goals that were scored in a 5 minute span last night, where exactly were the popcorn moments?

If hockey wants to eliminate fighting, hard hitting and angry battles, that's fine. They should then amp up the offensive side of the game. Instead, they have big goalies that drop to their knees deep in their net while moving very little and the puck seems to find their equipment repeatedly.

What's wrong with Sid??? Good question. Better question is what's wrong with the stewards of the NHL. At some point fans will start looking at ticket, parking, beer and food prices and then compare that to the entertainment value they are receiving. This may explain why Mario wants to bail on the NHL, hle knows that it's judgement day is coming and soon. I am surprised it hasn't happened already.

A contraction and a word said to HCMJ could solve all of Sid's problems........You're Fired.

 

[Al Smith]

His time on ice in the last two games was actually a little more than in his first three games. He got a few more shifts in his games 4 and 5.

After his first five games, I thought he had shown enough to stay, but, IMO, he's been pretty mediocre in the last two and, if he doesn't set the world on fire tonight and Saturday, he's just giving management a chance to make an easy decision to make room for Fehr.

.

 

[Shady Machine]

The game is about stick work, clogging lanes, and everyone crowding the middle of the D zone so nothing gets through, and it's been that way for awhile. The players keep naturally getting bigger and the rink is too small now, but we can't take out a row of seats because the owners would freak. That doesn't matter anyways though because everyone would coach to ignore that extra space and continue to clog the middle of the ice and force everyone outside anyways. Last night's game not withstanding, you hardly see a physical game played anymore because everyone is too damn worried about making sure they're in the exact right spot in every single possible situation. This all works to neuter any creativity, instinct, and quick decision making, three things that make the game great.

Those are league-wide problems.

All true. None of that explains why the Penguins are 29th in scoring.

 

[Coastal Kev]

The game is about stick work, clogging lanes, and everyone crowding the middle of the D zone so nothing gets through, and it's been that way for awhile. The players keep naturally getting bigger and the rink is too small now, but we can't take out a row of seats because the owners would freak. That doesn't matter anyways though because everyone would coach to ignore that extra space and continue to clog the middle of the ice and force everyone outside anyways. Last night's game not withstanding, you hardly see a physical game played anymore because everyone is too damn worried about making sure they're in the exact right spot in every single possible situation. This all works to neuter any creativity, instinct, and quick decision making, three things that make the game great.

Those are league-wide problems.

The first step to solving a problem is admitting you have a problem. I don't see anyone connected at the top levels of the NHL even talking about having any issues with their product. They are excited about expansion and new dollars! I think they believe they will never grow their sport and that their current fan base will never leave the sport.

Are they right??? We'll see. But I have paid for hockey going back to the 80's. I have not attended a game since 08 playoffs against the Canes and this is the first year I did not purchase the hockey package, even though it was $50 cheaper.

They put up a stat last night in the 3rd period where there wasn't a single shot by either team for 9 minutes, I counted an additional 90 seconds before the next shot. That is over 10 minutes in a 1 goal game that included a PP where very little action occurred. And no one see this as a BIG PROBLEM?

Digest this fact one more time, NO SHOTS in over 10 minutes in a one goal RIVALRY game in the 3rd period.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Tocchet's comments confirm what i mentioned earlier that no one on the coaching staff has any clout when it comes to Sid. Meaning, you can say it to him but he's not really gonna take it to heartand do what he wants to anyway and coach his own linemates after every shift too.

Sid's just gotta stop trying to figure everything out and just play the damn game.

 

[ColePens]

He's right. Last night on that poor decision with the puck play, he HAD to drive the net there and cause something positive to happen. He didn't, he curled and waited and made a terrible pass.







Cole, YOU said it the other day! About how the league is so much worse now. If it's OK when you say it, why not when somebody else says it? I don't understand.

I WOULD NEVER BE A HYPOCRITE! I think it's a two parter for me. I absolutely hate watching NHL games now and I freaking LOVE hockey. It's painful. But I dont' assess the Pens team based on that. I focus on what the Pens need to do to win in this garbage league that they took from being extremely high/fast pace to boring and slow again.

I think the two are very important to separate.

 

[ETA]

All true. None of that explains why the Penguins are 29th in scoring.

I'm more worried about the scoring going back to March.

Hypothetically, a 5 goal game against Buffalo would get the Pens to roughly 20th in scoring and another 5 goal game against the Leafs could get them into the top half of the league in scoring.

But it would take a lot more than that to make me feel like things have been turned around. Maybe like a full month of averaging 3-4 goals per game...

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

All true. None of that explains why the Penguins are 29th in scoring.

Grit, size, and generally getting in the way are too important in comparison to skill. It's very simple. We lack speed and, more to the point, quickness though I would certainly grant you that.

 

[Shady Machine]

Grit, size, and generally getting in the way are too important in comparison to skill. It's very simple. We lack speed and, more to the point, quickness though I would certainly grant you that.

So that's a roster construction problem. Basically my point here is the Penguins have to operate in the league that exists. It does no good blaming the NHL for the Pens lack of success when there are other teams succeeding with speed, skill, and youth.

Tyler Johnson tore up the league last year. Domi looks awesome this year. Those guys aren't big, gritty, in the way kind of players.

If you want to have a conversation about the state of the NHL that's fine, but let's make sure we aren't using that as an excuse for the Pen's **** boring play.

 

[Saints11]

The problem with Kunitz is his value is now a diminishing return, rapidly approaching the point where you may not be able to move him with out retaining salary for the remainder of his contract. The longer they wait to trade him, the more liability per se the team takes on.

This doesn't even take in to account how much he hurts the team on the ice playing a top 9 role.

It is a situation where we will need to trade him with a kicker or two for someone with an equally bad contract. Which is where the Wideman rumor comes in. It is one way, say Caigary, can justify the acquisition. Just throwing this out there, Kunitz, Lovejoy, and a 3/4th for Wideman. Calgary might ask for a higher pick, but, I would not want to hand over one of our seconds, in case a perfect fit coach comes along.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Right, the Pens are built like it's 2006.

They're trying to fight the reality of what the league has become rather than adapting to it.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

So that's a roster construction problem. Basically my point here is the Penguins have to operate in the league that exists. It does no good blaming the NHL for the Pens lack of success when there are other teams succeeding with speed, skill, and youth.

Tyler Johnson tore up the league last year. Domi looks awesome this year. Those guys aren't big, gritty, in the way kind of players.

If you want to have a conversation about the state of the NHL that's fine, but let's make sure we aren't using that as an excuse for the Pen's **** boring play.

Yeah I get ya there. I think the option to even be able to play this way is a problem, but no I don't think it's fair to excuse their play vs the rest of the league by saying what I said. Too many games are kinda boring is probably all I should've said.

 

[Terrapin]

The Pens played a really good 3rd period last night. That was actually suprising, and great to see.

Fleury may be the best goalie in the league.

There are no longer words to describe this PP. I've also never seen someone who performs so poorly in their job get to keep their job. Yeah, I'm looking at you Tocchet.

Most of that game made me sick. Watching Pen after Pen knocked on their *****, watching them bounce off bigger Washington players, watching Wilson drag Horny around the ice, etc. I lol'd when Pierre or someone said 'the Pens don't have anyone to match Wilson'. That's a ****ing travesty IMO. Wilson isn't prime Probert. Hell, we don't have anyone to match Ovechkin physically. Yep, you guys are right, we don't need any size or grit. We'll beat them on the scoreboard! There is zero, again zero chance that this team of wimps make it through the season even remotely healthy.