Line Combos: Pens 2023 Training Camp Thread: Dr. StrangeDubas or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Game

By the end of training camp:


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Zirakzigil

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Big Friggin Dummy

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This team had its season on the line with full control of their destiny, twice, in do-or-die situations and couldn't beat two teams actively tanking for Bedard last spring. It doesn't matter if they missed by a point or by 40--they were trash, and weren't going anywhere even if they did eek into the playoffs.
 

DesertedPenguin

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They're not the same. One can help you get a net positive 5+ goal swing for his line, which is enough to secure the few more wins you need to not be golfing in April.
We just learned how fine the margins were last year. These things matter for bubble teams.

You're still thinking like the Pens are a 105+ point team with leeway to make bad decisions. That time has passed. They're in a bitch of a division and Conference. For all we know the Isles may still have Sorokin stand on his head and take our spot again.

What about Buffalo and Ottawa making pushes for more Atlantic seeds?
You're assuming that Zohorna doesn't regress to the mean.

He's played less than half a year in the NHL. Anthony Angello has two fewer goals than Zohorna in almost the same number of NHL games, and he's a glorified goon.

Buffalo and Ottawa may be better, but Boston and Tampa may be worse. Teams come and go.
 

AuroraBorealis

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Who does he have a shorter leash than?
Like, everyone? I was referring to when he got waived the 1st time, although this time is the same thing, just without the reg season game logs.
He was the 2nd best bottom-sixer in this camp. Only O'Connor was better.

Compare his stats at the time he was waived the 1st time to other bottom-sixers over Z's 2 years. In what world does a coach come to the conclusion that Z is the one that needs to go? And why? Based on what?

If it's really so much about his lack of PK'ing, how about giving the guy the goddamn minutes on the unit and seeing if he can do it? Then maybe there will be this "fit" that you're talking about. But nooo, Sullivan is beyond experimentation like that.
Despite the guy putting up fantastic defensive and possession metrics, the idea doesn't even enter his mind.

What about him being net-front for PP2? He's 6' 6" 220lbs. Has he ever considered that he may be effective at this?
Has he ever considered he also may be effective at holding leads for the team late in games, instead of relying on Jeff Carter?

You're assuming that Zohorna doesn't regress to the mean.
There's room to regress and still be better than our garbage.
That's just it. The bar is a joke here. We're playing Jeff Carter.
 
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Gurglesons

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I caught heat for suggesting Carter's deal was trash when he signed it. People gave me shit for saying the second year and NMC were awful. It was blatantly obvious that a dude who sucked for years in LA was simply on an unsustainable, very finite tear since being traded, and that his play would fall off a cliff sooner than later. It was dumb that he was protected in the expansion draft too. I can't f***ing stand Jeff Carter, so I'm not trying to defend him. :laugh:

But the team's stuck with him because Hextall's the dumbest mother f***er since JR, and Sullivan/the room like him, so it's whatever. Who gives a shit? Just cross your fingers and hope he's played like 5 minutes of ES TOI a night (he won't be) and he doesn't make a horrendous negative impact defensively whenever he's on the ice (he will). That's about it. /shrug


Is there? When Hextall landed Ty Smith, we knew right away he was a prospect on the decline and he'd been struggling pretty badly since his relatively impressive rookie season. If anything, the Riikola comparison seems pretty spot on to me. A guy who is a nobody that people will forever complain isn't getting a fair shot despite, well, being a f***ing nobody. :laugh:

I think the big hang up with all of us re: Ty Smith is that it's hard to accept that Hextall gave away a serviceable roster player and asset with non-zero value for absolutely nothing. So we're all trying to rationalize it by pretending Ty Smith is something that he doesn't seem to be, and hasn't been for years at this point.


I hope Jeff Carter develops an equipment allergy and is forced to LTIRetire, giving the team much needed cap space and a roster spot. Whatever happens with Zoho happens. /shrug

Saying a defensive prospect at 23 is a bad prospect is Big Dummy vibes.

Ty Smith isn’t a nobody. A few seasons ago he was on the all rookie team. He then had a rough year with one of the worst teams in the league and basically has played 9 NHL games since where he was a net positive on the ice and had a goal and three assists.
 

Zirakzigil

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Wanted to ask, how has Poulin looked so far ? I always liked his game in Sherbrooke and think it's a shame he hasn't panned out yet. Still hoping.
I liked what I was when he played last year in Calgary. Hes got a bit of snarl in his game. I think its more of wanting him to play as much as possible since he missed so much time. If/when Sid/Geno/Carter get injured he should be up to play top 9 center
So, Hino, Friedman, Zoho and Hellberg were put on waivers.
Time to waive Ruh and play Friedman

#freefriedman
 

DesertedPenguin

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Like, everyone? I was referring to when he got waived the 1st time, although this time is the same thing, just without the reg season game logs.
He was the 2nd best bottom-sixer in this camp. Only O'Connor was better.
Once again, training camp is not the sole decider in roster decisions.

Also, while his time in camp was brief, Harkins was better. And Poulin was better.

Compare his stats at the time he was waived the 1st time to other bottom-sixers over Z's 2 years. In what world does a coach come to the conclusion that Z is the one that needs to go? And why? Based on what?
The coach isn't the only one making the decision on the roster. For example, Dubas' fingerprints are all over today's move, specifically in clearing an extra roster spot to make room for a potential waiver acquisition.
If it's really so much about his lack of PK'ing, how about giving the guy the goddamn minutes on the unit and seeing if he can do it? Then maybe there will be this "fit" that you're talking about. But nooo, Sullivan is beyond experimentation like that.
Despite the guy putting up fantastic defensive and possession metrics, the idea doesn't even enter his mind.
They did put him on the PK. They're continuing to experiment with that. In fact, if Zohorna is on the opening night roster, I bet he works on the PK in practices, even if he's the 13th forward.
What about him being net-front for PP2? He's 6' 6" 220lbs. Has he ever considered that he may be effective at this?
Here's today's PP2: Kris Letang, Reilly Smith, Bryan Rust, Jeff Carter, Jansen Harkins

Carter is more physical and scored four power play goals last year. One of his few remaining benefits is his presence around the net.

Harkins had 25 goals in 40+ games in the AHL last year. He's got a better offensive pedigree.
Has he ever considered he also may be effective at holding leads for the team late in games, instead of relying on Jeff Carter?

There's room to regress and still be better than our garbage.
That's just it. The bar is a joke here. We're playing Jeff Carter.
Well, it's really going to bake your noodle when I suggest that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that Carter still has a few remaining strengths and that those particular skills could be of use to the Penguins more than what Zohorna's strengths are.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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Saying a defensive prospect at 23 is a bad prospect is Big Dummy vibes.

Ty Smith isn’t a nobody. A few seasons ago he was on the all rookie team. He then had a rough year with one of the worst teams in the league and basically has played 9 NHL games since where he was a net positive on the ice and had a goal and three assists.
Smith's an all-offense blueliner that's been on the decline since his impressive 2020-21 rookie season. He'll never supplant Petts, Graves or POJ for a starting spot at LD. If he was comfortable or effective at RD, he'd have a much better shot at landing a spot in the lineup. /shrug

But we can keep pretending he's not some nobody that people constantly make a big deal out of like Riikola v2.0, and that actually it's that damned Mike Sullivan holding back yet another promising young player (even going back to his time in NJ--woah, Sullivan's omnipotent!). :laugh:

If he was, you'd think he could easily outplay the likes of Ruhwedel and Friedman, but y'know. Mike Sullivan bad man is much more easy to digest than accepting Smith probably just kinda sucks, and his rookie season was a dramatic outlier in what may end up as an otherwise forgettable hockey career. Sometimes guys are just a flash in the pan, e.g. Raycroft.

They need to find a trade for a similarly stagnant prospect at RD or forward at this point. All the guy's gonna do is circle the drain in this organization since LD is locked up for years to come (assuming Petts is re-signed next summer). If he's ever gonna sort his shit out, it'll be with another team imo.
 
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Gurglesons

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Smith's an all-offense blueliner that's been on the decline since his impressive 2020-21 rookie season. He'll never supplant Petts, Graves or POJ for a starting spot at LD. If he was comfortable or effective at RD, he'd have a much better shot at landing a spot in the lineup. /shrug

But we can keep pretending he's not some nobody that people constantly make a big deal out of like Riikola v2.0, and that actually it's that damned Mike Sullivan holding back yet another promising young player (even going back to his time in NJ--woah, Sullivan's omnipotent!). :laugh:

If he was, you'd think he could easily outplay the likes of Ruhwedel and Friedman, but y'know. Mike Sullivan bad man is much more easy to digest than accepting Smith probably just kinda sucks, and his rookie season was a dramatic outlier in what may end up as an otherwise forgettable hockey career. Sometimes guys are just a flash in the pan, e.g. Raycroft.

They need to find a trade for a similarly stagnant prospect at RD or forward at this point. All the guy's gonna do is circle the drain in this organization since LD is locked up for years to come (assuming Petts is re-signed next summer). If he's ever gonna sort his shit out, it'll be with another team imo.

My point with Ty Smith isn’t that he is anything special, but he has pedigree in the NHL and we’ve played him 9 games since trading for him where he succeeded at making Brian Dumoulin respectable.

It’s just bizarre to me that we aren’t giving him a shot for Chad Ruhwedel or this Shea kid.

There’s something up there.

Calgary did something very similar with Valimaki. Would not be surprised to see something similar happen.
 

AuroraBorealis

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Once again, training camp is not the sole decider in roster decisions.

Also, while his time in camp was brief, Harkins was better. And Poulin was better.
Close to nothing of a decider it turns out.
Highly debatable on the Harkins and especially Poulin front. I saw 1 good game and 1 average game from Harkins. I saw 3.5 good games from Z.
Poulin popped in a few goals but he was not as good defensively or with possession.
The coach isn't the only one making the decision on the roster. For example, Dubas' fingerprints are all over today's move, specifically in clearing an extra roster spot to make room for a potential waiver acquisition.
Well the personnel certainly seems to be heading towards what Sullivan values most.
Here's today's PP2: Kris Letang, Reilly Smith, Bryan Rust, Jeff Carter, Jansen Harkins

Carter is more physical and scored four power play goals last year. One of his few remaining benefits is his presence around the net.

Harkins had 25 goals in 40+ games in the AHL last year. He's got a better offensive pedigree.
I haven't seen enough of Harkins to judge, but his offense at the NHL level so far is utter crap.
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So I don't think we should value his last year in the AHL over that, especially considering he's got 154 games in this league already. That makes no sense to me. Johnsson had a really strong AHL campaign last year too. It ended up having zero carry-over to our camp.

Carter did well on PP2 last year. No question. But if that's almost the only positive thing you do, that should not be enough to make you a regular. His ES offense and defense was garbage. So, IMO that F spot should be freed up for someone with an overall bigger positive impact for the team. And I'm not convinced Carter's gonna do that again anyway. PP2 was magic beans last year.
They did put him on the PK. They're continuing to experiment with that. In fact, if Zohorna is on the opening night roster, I bet he works on the PK in practices, even if he's the 13th forward.
Yes, in this camp, finally. That's only due to him playing in lineups loaded with guys that won't make the team though.
In his NHL career he is credited with 0 minutes. It was never tried.
Well, it's really going to bake your noodle when I suggest that it's not outside of the realm of possibility that Carter still has a few remaining strengths and that those particular skills could be of use to the Penguins more than what Zohorna's strengths are.
I genuinely hope so, even if that goes against all logic. I see a player who is a decade younger, is moving better, is playing better offensively and defensively, and is more motivated to be here. Those remaining strengths of Carter's really didn't present themselves too much in helpful ways.
I'd prefer the team to win more games than being correct about all this though. I would welcome Carter being the best bottom-sixer on the team. It's just hard to see that timeline, considering he's barely moving out there and is just winding his career down.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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My point with Ty Smith isn’t that he is anything special, but he has pedigree in the NHL and we’ve played him 9 games since trading for him where he succeeded at making Brian Dumoulin respectable.

It’s just bizarre to me that we aren’t giving him a shot for Chad Ruhwedel or this Shea kid.

There’s something up there.

Calgary did something very similar with Valimaki. Would not be surprised to see something similar happen.
In general, I agree. The thought of watching Ruhwedel makes me want to claw my eyes out, and I've said repeatedly I'd be very interested in seeing if a POJ-Smith pairing could work. But in reality, Smith probably just kinda sucks, as evidenced by his inability to outplay losers like Ruhwedel or Friedman to a degree that he's given a spot. I mean, we're all in agreement that Ruhwedel and Friedman are 7th d-men, if that. If Smith were anything, he should be easily able to force the team's hand. Realistically, I think the LD v. RD thing really f***s him over more than anything tbh. /shrug

I don't know that it's bizarre. I think it's a combination of the majority of us being fed up with Sullivan, us being annoyed at the realization Hextall gave away Marino for free, and being resentful of having to watch yet another season featuring whatever the f*** Ruhwedel is supposed to be. :laugh: I really don't think Smith is anything more than another Riikola, and if he ever sorts his game out, it'll probably be with another organization that can afford to give him the conditions he needs (permanent LD spot, a responsible RD partner to let him roam and do his thing) in order to succeed.
 

DesertedPenguin

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Close to nothing of a decider it turns out.
Highly debatable on the Harkins and especially Poulin front. I saw 1 good game and 1 average game from Harkins. I saw 3.5 good games from Z.
Poulin popped in a few goals but he was not as good defensively or with possession.

Well the personnel certainly seems to be heading towards what Sullivan values most.

I haven't seen enough of Harkins to judge, but his offense at the NHL level so far is utter crap.
View attachment 750254
So I don't think we should value his last year in the AHL over that, especially considering he's got 154 games in this league already. That makes no sense to me. Johnsson had a really strong AHL campaign last year too. It ended up having zero carry-over to our camp.
Past performance does not predict future results.

That's the trappings of relying so heavily on just one stat, especially a rate stat like goals or points per 60. Rate stats favor sheltered players. It is not a guarantee that they will continue to produce at that rate when given more minutes. Zohorna's per 60 stats may be better than Harkins, but it is not an adequate predictor that Zohorna will a) continue to produce at that rate and b) produce at that rate against tougher competition.

Also, Johnnson did NOT have a really strong AHL campaign. Harkins had 25 goals and 50 points in 44 games. Johnson had 9 goals and 30 points in 36 games. That's a 16 goal and 20 point difference in just 8 games.
Carter did well on PP2 last year. No question. But if that's almost the only positive thing you do, that should not be enough to make you a regular. His ES offense and defense was garbage. So, IMO that F spot should be freed up for someone with an overall bigger positive impact for the team. And I'm not convinced Carter's gonna do that again anyway. PP2 was magic beans last year.
Yes, in an ideal world, Carter would be nowhere near the ice.

But this is reality, where the sunk cost fallacy lives in GM's heads and where coaches prefer the devil they know.
Yes, in this camp, finally. That's only due to him playing in lineups loaded with guys that won't make the team though.
In his NHL career he is credited with 0 minutes. It was never tried.
Odd that three organizations have evaluated this player and come to the same conclusion.
I genuinely hope so, even if that goes against all logic. I see a player who is a decade younger, is moving better, is playing better offensively and defensively, and is more motivated to be here. Those remaining strengths of Carter's really didn't present themselves too much in helpful ways.
I'd prefer the team to win more games than being correct about all this though. I would welcome Carter being the best bottom-sixer on the team. It's just hard to see that timeline, considering he's barely moving out there and is just winding his career down.
I'm not sure that Zohorna moves better than Carter. Maybe once he gets up to speed. But in tight spaces? He's all limbs.

Again, you're fixated on Zohorna and this roster move when in all likelihood he's going to be on the roster and quite possibly in the lineup on Tuesday night. And if not, it's quite possible that an even better player will replace him.
 

Gurglesons

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In general, I agree. The thought of watching Ruhwedel makes me want to claw my eyes out, and I've said repeatedly I'd be very interested in seeing if a POJ-Smith pairing could work. But in reality, Smith probably just kinda sucks, as evidenced by his inability to outplay losers like Ruhwedel or Friedman to a degree that he's given a spot. I mean, we're all in agreement that Ruhwedel and Friedman are 7th d-men, if that. If Smith were anything, he should be easily able to force the team's hand. Realistically, I think the LD v. RD thing really f***s him over more than anything tbh. /shrug

I don't know that it's bizarre. I think it's a combination of the majority of us being fed up with Sullivan, us being annoyed at the realization Hextall gave away Marino for free, and being resentful of having to watch yet another season featuring whatever the f*** Ruhwedel is supposed to be. :laugh: I really don't think Smith is anything more than another Riikola, and if he ever sorts his game out, it'll probably be with another organization that can afford to give him the conditions he needs (permanent LD spot, a responsible RD partner to let him roam and do his thing) in order to succeed.

I think there is a lot of truth to what @AuroraBorealis is saying about how this training camp worked.

Smith could’ve had 2 goals and 6 assists and he’s still sitting in the minors for Chad Ruhwedel and someone who can “PK”.

Hell, we saw it last year. Smith earned the spot based on his training camp.
 
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DearDiary

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Like, everyone? I was referring to when he got waived the 1st time, although this time is the same thing, just without the reg season game logs.
He was the 2nd best bottom-sixer in this camp. Only O'Connor was better.

Compare his stats at the time he was waived the 1st time to other bottom-sixers over Z's 2 years. In what world does a coach come to the conclusion that Z is the one that needs to go? And why? Based on what?

If it's really so much about his lack of PK'ing, how about giving the guy the goddamn minutes on the unit and seeing if he can do it? Then maybe there will be this "fit" that you're talking about. But nooo, Sullivan is beyond experimentation like that.
Despite the guy putting up fantastic defensive and possession metrics, the idea doesn't even enter his mind.

What about him being net-front for PP2? He's 6' 6" 220lbs. Has he ever considered that he may be effective at this?
Has he ever considered he also may be effective at holding leads for the team late in games, instead of relying on Jeff Carter?


There's room to regress and still be better than our garbage.
That's just it. The bar is a joke here. We're playing Jeff Carter.

Along with the regulars, Zohorna and Harkins were the only ones who had stalls this morning. Zohorna's was in his normal spot beside Jarry. There's a high chance he's starting game 1 if Guentzal can't go
 

Ryder71

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Saying a defensive prospect at 23 is a bad prospect is Big Dummy vibes.

Ty Smith isn’t a nobody. A few seasons ago he was on the all rookie team. He then had a rough year with one of the worst teams in the league and basically has played 9 NHL games since where he was a net positive on the ice and had a goal and three assists.
I think he's a disaster, and if he gets anything more than a cup of coffee at the NHL level I'd be shocked. His skating is pedestrian and his Hockey IQ is laughable.
 

AuroraBorealis

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Along with the regulars, Zohorna and Harkins were the only ones who had stalls this morning. Zohorna's was in his normal spot beside Jarry. There's a high chance he's starting game 1 if Guentzal can't go
Guentzel's gonna play it seems. They would be prioritizing Letang at PP practice if Jake is out vs Chicago imo.

Z is on waivers. Even if he clears waivers and Jake stays out, what's he gonna get? 1 game before Jake is back and he's demoted?
I'm talking about Z being a regular and playing like 70 games. That's what should be happening at this point. Actually, that should have already been happening like 2 years ago. Our worst winger regulars weren't better then and still aren't today.
 

AuroraBorealis

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Past performance does not predict future results.

That's the trappings of relying so heavily on just one stat, especially a rate stat like goals or points per 60. Rate stats favor sheltered players. It is not a guarantee that they will continue to produce at that rate when given more minutes. Zohorna's per 60 stats may be better than Harkins, but it is not an adequate predictor that Zohorna will a) continue to produce at that rate and b) produce at that rate against tougher competition.
You play them until they lose their steam so much that they become worse than your alternatives. Then you replace them with someone better at that time. Until you get to that point, you DO NOT screw with what's working. Still waiting on the sample size of him being a bad Pittsburgh Penguin.
Besides, he's not all offense anyway. I gave you his other stats. He can help in other areas. Sullivan hasn't explored his defensive potential at all yet.
I hope Harkins does become a good offensive producer, but I don't think there's any good reason to expect it.
Odd that three organizations have evaluated this player and come to the same conclusion.
Hextall and Sullivan's decision making means nothing to me. They have been proven wrong, stubborn and stupid too many times to trust.
Next up is Sutter, who was a toxic coach last year. Z admittedly didn't play well there, but we're talking about 67 minutes of ice time as a Flame. People seem to be trashing me for using small sample sizes, but flex that Calgary card a lot, as if it means more than his Pittsburgh time.
And finally we got Toronto. Excellent stats and metrics there in a tiny sample. Nothing to dislike. The same GM wanted him back this summer.
This narrative about him being worthless because organizations drop him is weak as f***.
I'm not sure that Zohorna moves better than Carter. Maybe once he gets up to speed. But in tight spaces? He's all limbs.
Come on. Of course he does. Watch him backcheck. Watch him forecheck. It's a totally different level of urgency. Carter's in cruise mode these days. He's an observer.
And yeah, Z's all limbs, but he uses them very effectively to help with takeaways, possession and scoring chance generation. That's his primary job as a Forward in the O-zone. There's nothing to complain about if it's working. Who cares about appearances? We need the puck, nothing else.
Again, you're fixated on Zohorna and this roster move when in all likelihood he's going to be on the roster and quite possibly in the lineup on Tuesday night. And if not, it's quite possible that an even better player will replace him.
I'm fixated more on optimal lineup deployment, since we need all the smart decisions we can get in order to make the playoffs. If Z was shit in camp I'd be totally fine with him being waived before guys who outplayed him. But that didn't happen. He didn't get outplayed when he played here before either.

Like I told the other guy, even if Z clears and plays Tuesday, it'll likely be for 1 game before he's sent to the AHL. Who cares? I'm interested in him becoming a 3rd or 4th line regular winger who PK's or PP2's. I feel he can help us with scoring and defense at ES, and possibly can develop into a useful PK'er, if given a chance.
It's just not that hard. Smith and Eller are great PK'ers, but Nieto is not. He's one with a lot of minutes logged doing it, but that doesn't make him effective. He can be replaced.
Not sure who the 4th PK F is. Acciari perhaps? Another replaceable PK'er. Not an expert at all.
It's really not that risky in our situation to experiment with these things. That's how you learn more about players, and make decisions based on more than just guesswork.
 

BusinessGoose

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They both suck at fighting, but Zohorna has only fought in the AHL






Also,

Acciari is great on PK. If you like SH chances and energy, that is.



 

Big Friggin Dummy

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I think there is a lot of truth to what @AuroraBorealis is saying about how this training camp worked.

Smith could’ve had 2 goals and 6 assists and he’s still sitting in the minors for Chad Ruhwedel and someone who can “PK”.

Hell, we saw it last year. Smith earned the spot based on his training camp.
I don't think it's some revelation that an NHL coach prefers vets and probably had his mind made up when the dust settled in FA back in July. :laugh: Hell, BlindWilly and I have joked around for years about the bullshit illusion of open competition when it comes to camp/pre-season with this coach and team.

But in the end, we're discussing the finer points of guys who are 13/14th forwards and 6/7th d-men. :laugh: It doesn't *really* matter.
 

AuroraBorealis

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I think there is a lot of truth to what @AuroraBorealis is saying about how this training camp worked.

Smith could’ve had 2 goals and 6 assists and he’s still sitting in the minors for Chad Ruhwedel and someone who can “PK”.

Hell, we saw it last year. Smith earned the spot based on his training camp.
Of course it's true. It's undeniable for even casual fans, let alone hardcore fans like us. I'll laugh at anyone who tries to claim otherwise.
Sullivan's concept of fairness from his first 2 years has went on a permanent holiday. He got attached, and now allows that to decide for him.

Think about it. How many of the 31 other NHL coaches would firmly support the idea of Carter being one of the 12 best Forwards, out of the billion we tried this camp?
You wanna tell me we'll get more out of 38 year old Carter over 82 games than these guys? The guy who barely moves out there?
There's literally like 5+ fringe guys who can outplay him. No joke.

If he's on the roster because of his NMC, fine. But Sully is not forced to play him. There's no excuse. He's basically showing everyone on the team that some guys get special treatment, no matter how they play. That's a great way to demoralize guys trying to crack the NHL roster.
The message Zohorna received this camp is: "Thanks, but your efforts don't matter. You were only here as a failsafe for injuries, and to help Wilkes."
 
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DesertedPenguin

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Of course it's true. It's undeniable for even casual fans, let alone hardcore fans like us. I'll laugh at anyone who tries to claim otherwise.
Sullivan's concept of fairness from his first 2 years has went on a permanent holiday. He got attached, and now allows that to decide for him.

Think about it. How many of the 31 other NHL coaches would firmly support the idea of Carter being one of the 12 best Forwards, out of the billion we tried this camp?
You wanna tell me we'll get more out of 38 year old Carter over 82 games than these guys? The guy who barely moves out there?
There's literally like 5+ fringe guys who can outplay him. No joke.

If he's on the roster because of his NMC, fine. But Sully is not forced to play him. There's no excuse. He's basically showing everyone on the team that some guys get special treatment, no matter how they play. That's a great way to demoralize guys trying to crack the NHL roster.
The message Zohorna received this camp is: "Thanks, but your efforts don't matter. You were only here as a failsafe for injuries, and to help Wilkes."
These types of decisions happen everywhere in the NHL.

Josh Bailey was among the league leaders in points in the preseason. Didn't even get a contract offer from Ottawa and was released from his PTO.

Martin Jones had a solid preseason. But it was a forgone conclusion the Leafs were going to waive him and he'll likely get claimed.

Riley Tufte scored three preseason goals for Colorado. Waiver wire.

Three small examples of Zohorna like situations playing out around the NHL. There are always additional factors besides preseason performance to consider when building a roster, and if you're stuck with a 38-year-old on a full NMC/NTC you might as well play him and hope he finds the fountain of youth for a month or two.
 

canadianguy77

Registered User
Apr 20, 2006
20,750
10,594
Sullivan is pretty set in his ways. I completely gave up on him making the intelligent, or even obvious choice after the 1st Islanders series.
I think this season will largely depend on whether or not Rust has a bounce-back season. The preseason wasn’t very encouraging. If he’s allowed to go a month at time scoring only 1 or 2 even strength points again, and still remain in the top-6, our goose is likely cooked.
 
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