Confirmed with Link: Penguins trade Scott Wilson + 2018 3rd rd. pick for Riley Sheahan + 2018 5th rd. pick

[Ogrezilla]

Wilson's 26 points are more than what people are harkening back to for Sheahan's last good season...when his most consistent linemates were bona-fide top 6 wingers who produce at least as well as what he'll likely be regularly playing with here (and clearly better than what Wilson had regularly last year):

http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?chkForward=checkbox&selForward=DETSHEAHAN,RILEY&period=ALL&situation=EV&games=2015-2016:R:99&Submit=Show+Line+Combinations&sent=go

I don't know how this playing 36% of his ES time with Nyquist and Tatar will be twisted into a debilitating scenario for Sheahan's production, but I can't wait to find out.

if they put up roughly the same production, the center who can kill penalties and play strong defense is obviously the more valuable player though. If Sheahan was coming off of that year, we don't get him for Wilson and a 3rd.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Wilson's 26 points are more than what people are harkening back to for Sheahan's last good season...when his most consistent linemates were bona-fide top 6 wingers who produce at least as well as what he'll likely be regularly playing with here (and clearly better than what Wilson had regularly last year):

http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php?chkForward=checkbox&selForward=DETSHEAHAN,RILEY&period=ALL&situation=EV&games=2015-2016:R:99&Submit=Show+Line+Combinations&sent=go

I don't know how this will be twisted into a debilitating scenario for Sheahan's production, but I can't wait to find out.

I don't think anyone, ever, implied Sheahan was anything short of terrible for the past calendar year. You're arguing with nobody on that. The point is, there are factors to take into account that you're willfully ignoring. Wilson played with infinitely better players on an infinitely better team. Sheahan's shooting percentage is like less than 5-percent, something that's not going to keep up forever. Wilson's production doesn't matter, as he's not even able to crack the lineup on this team--so he's providing nothing in terms of helping the Penguins win, scoring or otherwise. We have a horde of wingers that are Wilson's caliber or better, and a pretty substantial hole at center in our bottom-6. Arguing that Wilson hasn't played with immeasurably better players in his time here is foolish.

It's like you want Sheahan to continue to fail for whatever reason. Schultz sucked on a monumental level in Edmonton--likely would've been out of the league if we hadn't taken a shot on him. Let's hope for a turnaround 1/5 that good for Sheahan.

In the end it boils down to this; We traded a non-roster player at a position we're absolutely stacked at for a low-risk potential 3C in the midst of a horrendous stretch of hockey in hopes of a rebound in his game. Nothing else really needs to be said about either guy, to be honest.

 

[Ogrezilla]

And for the record, I'm not convinced Sheahan is as good of a center as we need. My argument is that we didn't give up much to try it out.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

if they put up roughly the same production, the center who can kill penalties and play strong defense is obviously the more valuable player though. If Sheahan was coming off of that year, we don't get him for Wilson and a 3rd.

Sure. But Sheahan scored 6 fewer ES points in '15'16 with much better linemates than Wilson did last year, and while he can pull defensive duties, he's hardly a defensive ace or anything. I'm gonna be skeptical of the guy until he can at least show he can get back to 25 point form here.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sure. But Sheahan scored 6 fewer ES points in '15'16 with much better linemates than Wilson did last year, and while he can pull defensive duties, he's hardly a defensive ace or anything. I'm gonna be skeptical of the guy until he can at least show he can get back to 25 point form here.

and that's all fair. I think the biggest difference of opinion is with Wilson.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't think anyone, ever, implied Sheahan was anything short of terrible for the past calendar year. You're arguing with nobody on that. The point is, there are factors to take into account that you're willfully ignoring. Wilson played with infinitely better players on an infinitely better team. Sheahan's shooting percentage is like less than 5-percent, something that's not going to keep up forever. Wilson's production doesn't matter, as he's not even able to crack the lineup on this team--so he's providing nothing in terms of helping the Penguins win, scoring or otherwise. We have a horde of wingers that are Wilson's caliber or better, and a pretty substantial hole at center in our bottom-6. Arguing that Wilson hasn't played with immeasurably better players in his time here is foolish.

It's like you want Sheahan to continue to fail for whatever reason. Schultz sucked on a monumental level in Edmonton--likely would've been out of the league if we hadn't taken a shot on him. Let's hope for a turnaround 1/5 that good for Sheahan.

In the end it boils down to this; We traded a non-roster player at a position we're absolutely stacked at for a low-risk potential 3C in the midst of a horrendous stretch of hockey in hopes of a rebound in his game. Nothing else really needs to be said about either guy, to be honest.

Check the dates I used for that comparison again.

Even in Sheahan's last "good" season - '15-'16 - when he was playing with much better linemates (with Tatar and Nyquist nailed to him) than Wilson did last year, he produced 6 fewer points at ES.

I don't want Sheahan to fail. I hope the best-case scenario plays out and he regains his form, because that's about the only way this deal becomes a win for us. All things considered, Wilson's been a more effective player than Sheahan not for one year, but two (and that's not even considering cost-effectiveness).

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I talked about it when the rumors first popped up, but RS is a big body with some serious skill and a heavy shot. Really coveted him a couple years back, but have honestly not seen him the last year and change.

If he looks anything like the guy I saw when Babs was there, this is a major steal. If not, losing a third and Nunchucks isn't a big deal.

 

[Pens x]

Another poor decision by management.

Wilson McKegg Reaves would have been a decent 4th line.

We still don't have a third line center and we just lost cap space, a draft pick and a decent 4th liner.

I hate this trade.

 

[harmonica]

I really like this trade. We gained a roster player and didn't give up one. We have bottom six guys and young players to fill our gaps in WBS.

Now we just need to see how RS does fitting in to the team.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Another poor decision by management.

Wilson McKegg Reaves would have been a decent 4th line.

We still don't have a third line center and we just lost cap space, a draft pick and a decent 4th liner.

I hate this trade.

again, 3 of the last 4 seasons, he's played like a 3C. Why does only last year count?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I talked about it when the rumors first popped up, but RS is a big body with some serious skill and a heavy shot. Really coveted him a couple years back, but have honestly not seen him the last year and change.

If he looks anything like the guy I saw when Babs was there, this is a major steal. If not, losing a third and Nunchucks isn't a big deal.

Exactly. Even if he busts, we gave up a 3rd and a non-roster player for a shot at fixing the 3C issue. Oh well.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here's the big problem with the Wilson-Sheahan comparison: Wilson is a winger and Sheahan is a center. It doesn't matter if Wilson is a "better player", because Wilson was sitting in the stands eating nachos for most of this year. Sheahan improves the team you put on the ice, losing Wilson doesn't hurt the team you put on the ice. That is solely because Sheahan would actually play in these games. Wilson was a healthy scratch guy here because he doesn't do anything to differentiate himself between guys like Kuhnhackl or Reaves, who bring something special that puts them into the lineup.

The pick swap is isn't significant, the Penguins only lost a guy who was a healthy scratch here and they gained a guy who might be able to fill the 3C spot that Bonino left. I really don't see a reason to complain about this. They didn't need Wilson, they needed a guy like Sheahan.

Although it's kinda funny, all we heard all offseason from some people was that Wilson was never going to be the centerpiece for a 3C trade, and now he's gone as the centerpiece for a 3C trade. Funny how that happens

 

[KIRK]

I talked about it when the rumors first popped up, but RS is a big body with some serious skill and a heavy shot. Really coveted him a couple years back, but have honestly not seen him the last year and change.

If he looks anything like the guy I saw when Babs was there, this is a major steal. If not, losing a third and Nunchucks isn't a big deal.

Jiggy, since you know him better than most, can Sheahan eat some of the hard defensive minutes that Sid and even Geno have been playing? If the answer is yes, then anyone who has a problem with this deal is incapable of seeing the forest though the trees, because this deal doesn't preclude a subsequent deal for an impact 3C.

 

[cygnus47]

With Rowney busting his hand tonight we'll get a good look at McKegg as the 4th liner at least. That may spell the end of Rowney being in the lineup.

 

[KIRK]

With Rowney busting his hand tonight we'll get a good look at McKegg as the 4th liner at least. That may spell the end of Rowney being in the lineup.

I don't know. McKegg hasn't exactly been inspiring lately.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Here's the big problem with the Wilson-Sheahan comparison: Wilson is a winger and Sheahan is a center. It doesn't matter if Wilson is a "better player", because Wilson was sitting in the stands eating nachos for most of this year. Sheahan improves the team you put on the ice, losing Wilson doesn't hurt the team you put on the ice. That is solely because Sheahan would actually play in these games. Wilson was a healthy scratch guy here because he doesn't do anything to differentiate himself between guys like Kuhnhackl or Reaves, who bring something special that puts them into the lineup.

The pick swap is isn't significant, the Penguins only lost a guy who was a healthy scratch here and they gained a guy who might be able to fill the 3C spot that Bonino left. I really don't see a reason to complain about this. They didn't need Wilson, they needed a guy like Sheahan.

Although it's kinda funny, all we heard all offseason from some people was that Wilson was never going to be the centerpiece for a 3C trade, and now he's gone as the centerpiece for a 3C trade. Funny how that happens

We've healthy scratched some young wingers who've ended up making pretty big impacts here the last couple years, and Wilson produced well with the opportunities he had - better pound-for-pound than Sheahan has since '14-'15. We'll find out whether we were scratching the right guy.

 

[Pens x]

I think Wilson is a better player than Kuhnhackl, personally. I hate that we threw away a third round pick AND lost precious cap space.

Had this trade just been Kuhnhackle and a 5th for Sheahan (25% retained), I'd have no issues.

But we still don't have a 3C. All we did was lose assets to acquire ANOTHER 4th line center.

 

[Pens x]

again, 3 of the last 4 seasons, he's played like a 3C. Why does only last year count?

Sheahan has scored more than 25 points in a season ONCE. Bones was ripped apart last year for nearly notchinf 40 points.

Sheahan isn't a third line center.

 

[KIRK]

I think Wilson is a better player than Kuhnhackl, personally. I hate that we threw away a third round pick AND lost precious cap space.

Had this trade just been Kuhnhackle and a 5th for Sheahan (25% retained), I'd have no issues.

But we still don't have a 3C. All we did was lose assets to acquire ANOTHER 4th line center.

Losing Wilson and the 3rd means nothing to a subsequent move to add an impact 3C later.

Adding Sheahan now gives you a guy who, for all his flaws offensively, can eat some of the hard minutes that Sid and even Geno are eating right now. Although I'm not surprised some fail to see why that matters . . .

EDIT: And I agree with you about the trade. I only disagree about the valuation of Wilson and the 3rd and the lack of appreciation for how adding Sheahan now helps Sid and Geno.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jiggy, since you know him better than most, can Sheahan eat some of the hard defensive minutes that Sid and even Geno have been playing? If the answer is yes, then anyone who has a problem with this deal is incapable of seeing the forest though the trees, because this deal doesn't preclude a subsequent deal for an impact 3C.

I can only speak about what he was under Babs, and he was projecting to be a top end third pivot that could do everything you want out of that position.

I have no clue what happened since then and why his stock has fallen so much. It's hard to believe the guy I watched and coveted is now looked at as some kind of scrub ppl are mad the Pens acquired.

How his scoring comes along who knows, but brother can rip a puck and has skills. I do feel strongly his old habits he learned under Babs will reemerge and he will be a pretty good defensive player under this staff.

If they could turn around that steaming pile of hot garbage Edm turned Schultz into, anything is possible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We've healthy scratched some young wingers who've ended up making pretty big impacts here the last couple years, and Wilson produced well with the opportunities he had - better pound-for-pound than Sheahan has since '14-'15. We'll find out whether we were scratching the right guy.

The issue is that we don't need those guys anymore. If this was 2014, you'd have a point, but the Penguins don't need those young wingers having big impacts anymore. They already have an overflow of top-9 wingers. It doesn't matter if the Penguins healthy scratched Rust or Sheary in 2015, because they don't need wingers to become Rust or Sheary anymore. They have those guys already.

 

[KIRK]

I can only speak about what he was under Babs, and he was projecting to be a top end third pivot that could do everything you want out of that position.

I have no clue what happened since then and why his stock has fallen so much. It's hard to believe the guy I watched and coveted is now looked at as some kind of scrub ppl are mad the Pens acquired.

How his scoring comes along who knows, but brother can rip a puck and has skills. I do feel strongly his old habits he learned under Babs will reemerge and he will be a pretty good defensive player under this staff.

If they could turn around that steaming pile of hot garbage Edm turned Schultz into, anything is possible.

Offense aside, can he eat some of the hard minutes Sid and even Geno are playing because Sully doesn't exactly trust Rowney or McKegg to be Bones or Cullen?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Offense aside, can he eat some of the hard minutes Sid and even Geno are playing because Sully doesn't exactly trust Rowney or McKegg to be Bones or Cullen?

The guy I watched could, no doubt.

He really has all the tools. I think his motor has always been an issue and the fact he doesn't shoot as much as he should, because he has a cannon.

Perhaps his desire is what got him in the doghouse after Babs left. I have no clue... I know it was an issue with Babs, but he was always pushing his buttons and motivating him and RS did well under him.

 

[Pens x]

Losing Wilson and the 3rd means nothing to a subsequent move to add an impact 3C later.

Adding Sheahan now gives you a guy who, for all his flaws offensively, can eat some of the hard minutes that Sid and even Geno are eating right now. Although I'm not surprised some fail to see why that matters . . .

EDIT: And I agree with you about the trade. I only disagree about the valuation of Wilson and the 3rd and the lack of appreciation for how adding Sheahan now helps Sid and Geno.

I understand the concept of acquiring a center to lessen 71 and 87's burden, but we went dumpster diving to do so. Sheahan is just settling. We have McKegg and to a lessor extent Rowney as fourth line centers. We don't need another one. We need a real 3C, not some reclamation project coming off one of the worst offensive season ever.

This trade isn't going to hurt the team long-term but it's just another head scratcher by management over the last 4 months.

$3.2 mill is a lot to waste on Reaves and Sheahan.

 

[Gurglesons]

I understand the concept of acquiring a center to lessen 71 and 87's burden, but we went dumpster diving to do so. Sheahan is just settling. We have McKegg and to a lessor extent Rowney as fourth line centers. We don't need another one. We need a real 3C, not some reclamation project coming off one of the worst offensive season ever.

This trade isn't going to hurt the team long-term but it's just another head scratcher by management over the last 4 months.

$3.2 mill is a lot to waste on Reaves and Sheahan.

I don't agree that it is a "horrible trade", but absolutely hilarious to hear how we couldn't spend 4 mil on Bonino, but we are spending 3.2 on Reaves and Sheahan.