Penguins "to KC/staying in Pitt/not sold/whatever" thread

[Jaysfanatic*]

If the Pens move from Pittsburgh to Kansas City, I will refuse to watch a single one of their games, even if they play the Devils. It will be a travesty, keep the team in Pittsburgh!!

 

[triggrman]

This deal is a little like the Nashville deal but the city actually gave 100% of the arena revenue to the Predators and the city picks up all the expenses. Basically, the tax payers pay for the arena so the Predators can turn a profit, I'm sorry, so Powers management (owned by Craig Leipold) can turn a profit.

 

[PuckNut]

Ding, ding, the lightbulb went off. Does this mean that AEG basically gets half ownership of the Pens? 50% of all revenues generated in the arena = 50% of the Pens take too. That makes more sense and makes that offer far less generous halving the Pens' value.

I think I'm a little dense today. Where are you getting the 50% of all revenues generated statement? All I see in that article is equal management partnership in the arena.

 

[Boozers]

The KC Royals are 28/30 teams in attendence in baseball. Granted the Pirates are not a large amount better, but there is a history of a strong hockey market in Pittsburgh built over more than a hundred years. KC? the worst attendence in hockey for two years and moved. KC is a huge question mark as a hockey market or sports market and anyone who says otherwise is not telling the truth. The untested nature and previous failures are the biggest acheles heals in the KC/NHL question.

Exactly and if the team isnt winning for sure the people of KC will drop their team like a bad habit.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think I'm a little dense today. Where are you getting the 50% of all revenues generated statement? All I see in that article is equal management partnership in the arena.

The press release promised Pens 100% of the profits of the arena, and a 50% stake in the ownership group. That is a nifty little lawyer phrase, but it'd shake out to the Pens joining AEG, and splitting all the proceeds of the arena with THEM.

I don't really see the upside for the Pens on this deal, to be honest. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but it doesn't seem all in the ballpark of the Plan B, except for the fact the arena is already built.

 

[PuckNut]

The press release promised Pens 100% of the profits of the arena, and a 50% stake in the ownership group. That is a nifty little lawyer phrase, but it'd shake out to the Pens joining AEG, and splitting all the proceeds of the arena with THEM.

I don't really see the upside for the Pens on this deal, to be honest. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but it doesn't seem all in the ballpark of the Plan B, except for the fact the arena is already built.

It all depends on the details that we don't know. I guess the other major upside is no upfront costs. Other than that, it's hard to say. It makes it entirely too difficult to predict just based on the interpretations of one writer in one article.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It all depends on the details that we don't know. I guess the other major upside is no upfront costs. Other than that, it's hard to say. It makes it entirely too difficult to predict just based on the interpretations of one writer in one article.

Yeah, there's a lot unsaid that's being assumed by people on both sides of the fence here.

Also, a thought: Will Mario's desire to sell the team have an effect on the negotiations? I'd imagine the partnership that AEG is offering, plus an uncertain market, would substantially lower the price he could get for the team. Will this be a factor?

 

[PensFan27]

If the Pens move from Pittsburgh to Kansas City, I will refuse to watch a single one of their games, even if they play the Devils. It will be a travesty, keep the team in Pittsburgh!!

Your pissed, imagine how Pens fans feel.

 

[PuckNut]

Yeah, there's a lot unsaid that's being assumed by people on both sides of the fence here.

Also, a thought: Will Mario's desire to sell the team have an effect on the negotiations? I'd imagine the partnership that AEG is offering, plus an uncertain market, would substantially lower the price he could get for the team. Will this be a factor?

That's what I'm worried about actually. Will Mario's desire to sell or annoyance with certain politicians effect his decision? In reality, what's stopping him from moving the team and keep ownership during the move, then selling the team to AEG or an associated party following that? Well, let's hope a very comparable counter offer comes in Plan B and Mario accepts it.

 

[Staalweiser]

Being a Pens fan in Australia, it really shouldn't matter much to me, but it does. I haven't even been to Pittsburgh and I don't want the team to move.

I'll probably still follow them... but it won't be the same. Not even close.

 

[BruinsFan01]

I keep thinking that AEG should be concentrating on their one NHL team before worrying about another...

 

[HandshakeLine]

I keep thinking that AEG should be concentrating on their one NHL team before worrying about another...

That's true. I forgot AEG owns the Kings. What does that do for the ownership/lease situation? Seems like a conflict of interests, maybe?

 

[BruinsFan01]

I really don't know enough to make a great argument. I can only guess that AEG wouldn't have control over the Pens INCLUDING sales, marketing, etc. due to the conflict of interest and that the big benefit would be from the revenues generated from concession, parking, and future revenues for concerts, etc. that could be generated with an immediate database full of people who have been to and talk about the arena...

I could be way off here though...

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Rendell: Plan B will be sweetened and competitive. KC a failed hockey market

Rendell: Plan B will be sweetened

By Andrew Conte
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, January 4, 2007

Heading into his meeting this afternoon with Mario Lemieux and other Penguins officials, Gov. Ed Rendell said he is prepared to sweeten the state’s so-called Plan B to put the team in a new arena and keep it in Pittsburgh.
Rendell said he is confident that Pennsylvania can offer a better deal than Kansas City, Mo. Lemieux and other Penguins officials visited Kansas City Wednesday and today to visit the new Sprint Center arena.

“When you factor in the tremendous fan base here and the fact that hockey has failed in Kansas City, I think we will beat it,†Rendell said

He said to deal with the Penguins' "significant losses..., we will restructure our offer and make it better and make it an aggressive one."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleyindependent/backstage/s_487112.html

 

[GKJ]

Rendell: Plan B will be sweetened

By Andrew Conte
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, January 4, 2007

Heading into his meeting this afternoon with Mario Lemieux and other Penguins officials, Gov. Ed Rendell said he is prepared to sweeten the state’s so-called Plan B to put the team in a new arena and keep it in Pittsburgh.
Rendell said he is confident that Pennsylvania can offer a better deal than Kansas City, Mo. Lemieux and other Penguins officials visited Kansas City Wednesday and today to visit the new Sprint Center arena.

“When you factor in the tremendous fan base here and the fact that hockey has failed in Kansas City, I think we will beat it,†Rendell said

He said to deal with the Penguins' "significant losses..., we will restructure our offer and make it better and make it an aggressive one."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleyindependent/backstage/s_487112.html

Well, Rendell obviously thinks Anschutz's deal is better than Plan B. Dare we say...Plan C?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

ChitownExile in this thread:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=328584

is reporting that a local station has reported the following:

On a completely unrelated note, WPXI in Pittsburgh is reporting that Mario is "very pleased" with his meeting with the state (PA) and "wants to keep the team here".

It's good news, I guess, but I still want to see something in writing soon.

Edit: Now apparently the same quotes have been reported on two local radio stations. What an emotional roller coaster.

 

[HansH]

Who actually trusts anything Mario (or for that matter, AEG, Rendell, the City of Pittsburgh, etc) have to say in public on these dealings?

It's a series of negotiations, and the public posturing ON ALL SIDES are all ploys to attempt to strengthen each party's position -- KC, Pittsburgh, AND the Pens.

We're not going to know what the best deal is, or which direction things are REALLY going until pen meets paper.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Who actually trusts anything Mario (or for that matter, AEG, Rendell, the City of Pittsburgh, etc) have to say in public on these dealings?

It's a series of negotiations, and the public posturing ON ALL SIDES are all ploys to attempt to strengthen each party's position -- KC, Pittsburgh, AND the Pens.

We're not going to know what the best deal is, or which direction things are REALLY going until pen meets paper.

Emerging from his Downtown meeting this afternoon with state and local leaders, Penguins owner Mario Lemieux said he heard "very positive" comments from Gov. Ed Rendell, county Chief Executive Dan Onorato and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl. But Lemieux didn't rule out moving the Penguins to Kansas City, Mo.
Lemieux said he hopes "to move forward (on a decision) in the next week or so."


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/rss/s_487121.html

 

[timmy12]

http://kdka.com/topstories/local_story_004175330.html

(KDKA) PITTSBURGH After meeting with Governor Ed Rendell and other local leaders this afternoon, Pittsburgh Penguins Owner Mario Lemieux told KDKA he's optimistic about his team's future here in Pittsburgh, but the team is continuing to evaluate its options.

Lemieux went behind closed doors with the governor, Allegheny County Executive Dan Onorato and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl this afternoon hoping to reach a deal to keep the team in town.

Although no agreement on a so-called "Plan B" to build a new arena for the team was reached, Lemieux said he was very pleased by what he heard today.

Today's meeting, though, came on the heels of Lemieux's visit to Kansas City where officials there detailed an enticing proposal to lure the Pens to their city.

Construction is already underway on the Sprint Center and if the team heads out of town, they could move right into the new state-of-the-art arena.

At a news conference in Kansas City today, AEG Entertainment's Tim Leiweke told reporters the new arena would be ready in time to showcase the Kansas City Penguins.

"This building will be ready by October 15th," Leiweke added, "We'll play hockey this year if they move to Kansas City."

While Leiweke said he didn't want to get into the specifics of the lease terms, he did highlight a few details of the deal. "They will not pay rent in this building."

In addition, the Kansas City offer would not require any up front money or construction fees from the Penguins. The team would also have the option of becoming partners in the arena and share in its revenues for $27 million.

Under the current plan to build a new arena in Pittsburgh, the Penguins would be required to shell out $87 million up front and yearly construction costs and naming rights revenue.

Nonetheless, Governor Ed Rendell said going into today's meeting that he was both hopeful and optimistic about the team's future here.

"We will restructure our offer... and make it an aggressive one," Rendell told KDKA.

While the city and county require more money up front, that's just the starting point of talks. Under the terms of the lease, Pittsburgh can close the gap by offering a bigger take of the arena revenues.

But Pittsburgh may not necessarily have to come up with a better deal than Kansas City put on the table.

The Pens need approval from the league to leave Pittsburgh and the NHL only wants to see a viable offer for an arena here – not necessarily the best offer.

"Will they make a deal in Pittsburgh if ultimately they can get the right deal? Yes," Leiweke told reporters. "I don't think they want to move that team."

 

[HansH]

Emerging from his Downtown meeting this afternoon with state and local leaders, Penguins owner Mario Lemieux said he heard "very positive" comments from Gov. Ed Rendell, county Chief Executive Dan Onorato and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl. But Lemieux didn't rule out moving the Penguins to Kansas City, Mo.
Lemieux said he hopes "to move forward (on a decision) in the next week or so."


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/rss/s_487121.html

And? That supports what I'm saying -- there's public posturing, and then there's what's going on behind the scenes... which we won't know until it's over.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

"Hopefully, we'll move forward in the next week or so and really evaluate where we're going. but I'm very pleased with both meetings today,'' Lemieux said. "I've always been very optimistic (about staying in Pittsburgh). I've been here for 20-some years. But we have to evaluate all of our options and that's why we went to Kansas City to look at what they had to offer.''

Rendell did not talk to reporters after the meeting, but Allegheny County chief executive Dan Onorato said, "It was very productive, very productive. ... We're going to continue to negotiate and, hopefully, the next time you hear from all of us we can give you details.''

Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl said another meeting with the Penguins has not been planned, but that discussions would continue. Both sides promised they would not negotiate in public.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/hockey/nhl/wires/01/04/2040.ap.hkn.penguins.arena.0813/


.............. and from the same article:

The NHL has given every sign it wants the Penguins to stay in Pittsburgh, where it has played to nearly 94 percent of capacity this season, as long as a new arena is built. Canadian businessman Jim Balsillie had a deal in place to buy the team last month, only to pull out on the apparent closing date when the NHL told him he couldn't relocate the team.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

OK, the Pens now have their free arena from Pittsburgh. I think. The only thing not mentioned was that giving up of the $1.1 mil in naming rights but I doubt that was held back giving the cave on everything else:


In Thursday's meeting, Rendell said the state would no longer expect the Pens to put up $8.5 million or the $2.9 million as far as debt services are concerned for the new arena.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/sports/10661881/detail.html

How could the NHL possible approve a move when they set the standards as a new arena and the State/local government now came up with a free one? The State met the test by any concievable notion. If this is true the Pens are going nowhere.

 

[skullman80]

OK, the Pens now have their free arena from Pittsburgh. I think. The only thing not mentioned was that giving up of the $1.1 mil in naming rights but I doubt that was held back giving the cave on everything else:


In Thursday's meeting, Rendell said the state would no longer expect the Pens to put up $8.5 million or the $2.9 million as far as debt services are concerned for the new arena.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/sports/10661881/detail.html

How could the NHL possible approve a move when they set the standards as a new arena and the State/local government now came up with a free one? The State met the test by any concievable notion. If this is true the Pens are going nowhere.

So if I read this right...The Pens are now putting up no up-front money and no money on a yearly basis?

That's almost too good to be true.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

So if I read this right...The Pens are now putting up no up-front money and no money on a yearly basis?

That's almost too good to be true.

Why? The initial deal was not far off from that as far as the state was concerned. I have said that often. $8.5 mil. and just under $4 mil per year to a state with a $27.1 bil. a year budget? The PR hit alone of an 'old and dying state' losing a premier franchise with Crosby was worth making up the difference. This was predictable. You do not nickle and dime at times like this, you curse yourself for missing the better deal that you could have made before and pay what amounts to pocket change in a budget that big because you have to for political and so many other reasons.

One thing. If this is indeed the deal, and if Rendell said it on the record it really seems to be so, then if the NHL does let one of its strongest markets go after setting the arena bar and having it met, the NHL can go to hell as far as I am concerned. I just can not see after what the NHL said for Pittsburgh to do, after this allowing the team to move. Bettman and the BOG would vote down a move.

 

[skullman80]

Why? The initial deal was not far off from that as far as the state was concerned. I have said that often. $8.5 mil. and just under $4 mil per year to a state with a $27.1 bil. a year budget? The PR hit alone of an 'old and dying state' losing a premier franchise with Crosby was worth making up the difference. This was predictable. You do not nickle and dime at times like this, you curse yourself for missing the better deal that you could have made before and pay what amounts to pocket change in a budget that big because you have to for political and so many other reasons.

One thing. If this is indeed the deal, and if Rendell said it on the record it really seems to be so, then if the NHL does let one of its strongest markets go after setting the arena bar and having it met, the NHL can go to hell as far as I am concerned. I just can not see after what the NHL said for Pittsburgh to do, after this allowing the team to move. Bettman and the BOG would vote down a move.

I guess I'm just surprised that the politicians have actually stepped up for once.

Either way, just get this thing done and lets end this rollercoaster.