GDT: Penguins @ Devils, 7 PM, MSG+

[MadDevil]

If Cory's confidence wasn't completely destroyed from mid November through December I don't think giving up 7 to the Penguins in meanginless game 79 is going to destroy it. People just need to nitpick everything Hynes does because they've decided he's a moron and needs to be fired.

 

[Devils Dominion]

We have to toss LJ off the team this summer.

 

[Edmonton East]

I fire Herb Brooks if he goes 1 regulation win in 23 games or whatever it is.

Hynes has to go. Team at least needs to have some hope heading into next season, even if it doesn't translate.

 

[Kurt Cobain]

.

He's scored 30 points this year.

When was the last time Adam Larsson scored 30 points in a season? He hasn't.


This is what I'm saying.

If a goalie allows 5 goals and we're 25 minutes into the game, you gotta pull him. Whether he's allowed 0 bad goals or all 5 were bad goals. Maybe if the game was still tied or if we were winning, I'd cut him a break.

There's no excuse for that. And this is a regular and constant Hynes-ism this year.

Actually he has 31 points and then you look at what's going behind those numbers and see he has 13 points since November and hasn't had a goal in 65 games, while being the only defensman with more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts and plenty of PP time. You wanna bring up Larsson who never got PP time and it wasn't his job to put up points. Are only points what makes a great defensman?. Are you trying to say he's better defensman than Larsson? That's hilarious. Are you saying he's better at offense than Larsson? That's true, but it doesn't mean he's very good at it yet and he could be a very good offensive defensman I've always said that. My problem with Severson, actually I don't have problem with him, it's the members of this sites attitude toward him not holding him to a higher standard. When Merrill and Larsson's play fell off they got so much ****. Yet when it comes to Severson, a solid portion of you act like he's arrived. It's amazing what people will put up with if they put up a few points, but do everything else bad. He's got so much to work on offensivly and more importantly defensively, just like Santini and Merrill.

I'm not talking about Damon Severson anymore.

 

[Bleedred]

.


Actually he has 31 points and then you look at what's going behind those numbers and see he has 13 points since November and hasn't had a goal in 65 games, while being the only defensman with more offensive zone starts than defensive zone starts and plenty of PP time. You wanna bring up Larsson who never got PP time and it wasn't his job to put up points. Are only points what makes a great defensman?. Are you trying to say he's better defensman than Larsson? That's hilarious. Are you saying he's better at offense than Larsson? That's true, but it doesn't mean he's very good at it yet and he could be a very good offensive defensman I've always said that. My problem with Severson, actually I don't have problem with him, it's the members of this sites attitude toward him not holding him to a higher standard. When Merrill and Larsson's play fell off they got so much ****. Yet when it comes to Severson, a solid portion of you act like he's arrived. It's amazing what people will put up with if they put up a few points, but do everything else bad. He's got so much to work on offensivly and more importantly defensively, just like Santini and Merrill.

I'm not talking about Damon Severson anymore.

You're the one who brought up he isn't doing enough offensively or defensively and compared it to Larsson. That's the only reason I brought up Larsson.

And his low point total since in November is just the percentages regressing to the mean. He was on pace to score 65 points, which he's not THAT good. He was never gonna score 50+ points. These things happen and even out.

I do agree that his shot is lousy though. That's the worst thing about his offense. His shot is almost less threatening than Jon Merrill's.

 

[Bleedred]

If Cory's confidence wasn't completely destroyed from mid November through December I don't think giving up 7 to the Penguins in meanginless game 79 is going to destroy it. People just need to nitpick everything Hynes does because they've decided he's a moron and needs to be fired.

Come on man, you can't defend his refusal to pull Cory (and Kinkaid once) time and time again this season.

If it's the 3rd period and he allows 5 goals, fine, whatever, keep him in there. Even Marty would have gotten hooked by that point if he allowed 5 goals in 2 and a quarter periods back in his prime. I remember Marty getting hooked after 4 goals in the 1st period back in 2003 against the Pens.

Hynes has had a horrible habit of leaving the goalies in there to get lit up this year. He even did it to Kinkaid back around New Years against the Caps.

Then he made a few mercy pulls after that in January to both Cory and Keith.

Almost no coach leaves the goalie in there that long, bad goals or not.

 

[NJDevs26]

The only thing getting destroyed is Cory's save percentage which is back below .910 after this disaster.

Let's just say I'm a bit skeptical of him going into next year, if he rebounds to being a .925 goalie fine but he didn't exactly live up to being a great goalie this year. A great goalie would have been like Luongo in Florida and still put up numbers.

 

[Bleedred]

The only thing getting destroyed is Cory's save percentage which is back below .910 after this disaster.

Let's just say I'm a bit skeptical of him going into next year, if he rebounds to being a .925 goalie fine but he didn't exactly live up to being a great goalie this year. A great goalie would have been like Luongo in Florida and still put up numbers.

This is one game where I can't fault him, if there are any. The shorthanded goal was a bad one, but I wouldn't say any of the other 6 were.

But all in all, Cory has allowed twice the number of stoppable goals this year than he did last year and in almost an identical amount of minutes played.

I almost think Hynes is keeping him in to punish him in a game like this. Since his play this year is making Hynes look worse than he probably is, but only slightly worse.

 

[MadDevil]

I'm not saying I agree with him not pulling Cory, but I don't think it's nearly as big of an issue as some people make it out to be. Which, quite honestly, applies to a lot of the **** we go over time and time again around here.

On Hynes, I'm willing to give him a mulligan for this season with Cory having his worst season, the special teams dropping off, Rico and Palmieri getting off to slow starts, Cammalleri going over a cliff, etc. A lot of **** just went wrong this year, and for a team that's in the situation we're in talent wise, it doesn't take a lot going wrong to have a really bad year.

I just look at what we're icing most nights and can't say that I think coaching is the biggest issue that needs to be addressed. We've still got several key holes to fill before we can really be on the upswing. If those holes are filled and we still have the same problems, I'll be more than happy to can Hynes. But I think he deserves another shot at it with a better roster first.

 

[Triumph]

Come on man, you can't defend his refusal to pull Cory (and Kinkaid once) time and time again this season.

If it's the 3rd period and he allows 5 goals, fine, whatever, keep him in there. Even Marty would have gotten hooked by that point if he allowed 5 goals in 2 and a quarter periods back in his prime. I remember Marty getting hooked after 4 goals in the 1st period back in 2003 against the Pens.

Hynes has had a horrible habit of leaving the goalies in there to get lit up this year. He even did it to Kinkaid back around New Years against the Caps.

Then he made a few mercy pulls after that in January to both Cory and Keith.

Almost no coach leaves the goalie in there that long, bad goals or not.

Can you point to any evidence that removing the goalie early is good or bad? It's certainly become a custom in the NHL to do that but I find it tough to believe it's good other than it's a classic example of a coach or manager making a change because he can.

 

[Bleedred]

Can you point to any evidence that removing the goalie early is good or bad? It's certainly become a custom in the NHL to do that but I find it tough to believe it's good other than it's a classic example of a coach or manager making a change because he can.

I don't have a super strong belief that making a goalie change will spark a team or anything like that. My issue is keeping him in the game after that many goals allowed in such short time. Why do it? He should have been mercy pulled when after 5 goals in 25-ish minutes.

I don't see why he should be kept in there, I'd either pull him for efficiency purposes or pull him to stop the embarrassment.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

The only thing getting destroyed is Cory's save percentage which is back below .910 after this disaster.

Let's just say I'm a bit skeptical of him going into next year, if he rebounds to being a .925 goalie fine but he didn't exactly live up to being a great goalie this year. A great goalie would have been like Luongo in Florida and still put up numbers.

I'm of the same mindset right now.

If Cory's confidence wasn't completely destroyed from mid November through December I don't think giving up 7 to the Penguins in meanginless game 79 is going to destroy it. People just need to nitpick everything Hynes does because they've decided he's a moron and needs to be fired.

Certainly isn't going to help it, and you shouldn't be leaving your star goalie in a game to get embarrassed like that. Only bad coaches do such a thing. The most famous example happened in Montreal with Roy.

He deserves to be nitpicked because he had the team go backwards from where it was last year.

I'm still waiting for the people sticking up for him to show what he has done that shows he deserves to still have job here without bringing up the roster excuse. The team last year was a worse roster and they had better record.

I don't have a super strong belief that making a goalie change will spark a team or anything like that. My issue is keeping him in the game after that many goals allowed in such short time. Why do it? He should have been mercy pulled when after 5 goals in 25-ish minutes.

I don't see why he should be kept in there, I'd either pull him for efficiency purposes or pull him to stop the embarrassment.

Pretty much how I look at it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The only thing getting destroyed is Cory's save percentage which is back below .910 after this disaster.

Let's just say I'm a bit skeptical of him going into next year, if he rebounds to being a .925 goalie fine but he didn't exactly live up to being a great goalie this year. A great goalie would have been like Luongo in Florida and still put up numbers.

There is zero reason to be skeptical.

He had a bad year. Everyone has one. Plus the team in front of him is absolute trash.

 

[Bleedred]

I think there's a pretty good chance Cory bounces back next year, as opposed to a guy like Lundqvist. If not only because of his age and odometer.

Carey Price had a poor season in the lockout year, granted it was just 39 games and if the season was extended, maybe those numbers come up a little bit.

Even Kinkaid last year was pretty bad and has been MUCH better on an even worse team and he's having the best season of the 3 he's played in the NHL. I know he's a backup and backups numbers fluctuate greatly, whereas starters usually don't to such a drastic degree.

Then there's also Tuukka Rask, who has just had two straight years of .915 goaltending after being a career .920+ guy before last season. Rinne is only good approximately every other year these days. Lehtonen completely crashed at 30 years old and Ward was finished by the time he was 29.

None of those guys other than Rask were as good as Cory though. Aside from maybe Rinne pre-2013 and Cory from 2010-2016 was probably better than him pre-2013.

He still plays pretty good games a lot, but he also has some awful games. Like the Detroit game where he allowed 3 lousy goals and they were the only 3 goals he allowed in the game and we won 4-3, which was one of the few games we've won in spite of him in 4 years. He's been more like 11-12 Marty this year, only without a crappy first half and amazing second half. Marty was consistently bad from November-January that year and consistently pretty good from February-June. Cory was amazing in October, then had some awful, awful months in November and December. Then looked back to normal in January and February, before reverting back to November-December mode into March.

 

[Bleedred]

The guy who should win the Vezina this year had a season very much like Cory's last year. He did start fewer games than Cory, by 24 (assuming Cory plays one more) but Cory had almost those same numbers after 37 games this year. Bobrovsky has bounced back to what he's been since he's been in Columbus this year. Perhaps different circumstances because he was injured, but if you saw Bobrovsky in October of 2015, he was dreadful. It got their coach fired too.

My buddy already sent me a bunch of texts earlier about Bishop allowing 3 putrid goals for the Kings tonight. I checked out the highlights and he wasn't kidding. Was even scored against on a clean wraparound. So much for the ''Kings defense makes goalies look good''. He's been no better there than he was for Tampa this year. He's having as poor of a year as Cory and is a UFA this year, so it's shocking to see him playing so poorly. And he wasn't even as good as Cory before this season either, as much as a bunch of clowns wanted to believe he was and argued that he was. And he's been just as bad this season. He's also the same age and has even fewer miles on the odometer than Cory does.

 

[Bleedred]

One more thing on Cory

He only has 2 shutouts this year. If he had this same sub 91% save percentage with 5 or 6 shutouts or his career norm in shutouts, that would be even more concerning. If he had 6 shutouts this year and was posting these kinds of numbers, that would mean he's playing even worse in the games that he's not collecting shutouts in than he already is.

 

[Devils731]

The only thing getting destroyed is Cory's save percentage which is back below .910 after this disaster.

Let's just say I'm a bit skeptical of him going into next year, if he rebounds to being a .925 goalie fine but he didn't exactly live up to being a great goalie this year. A great goalie would have been like Luongo in Florida and still put up numbers.

09-10 Luongo went out with a .913 save percentage and the next season went .928. Goalies can swing pretty wildly year to year.

 

[Wingman77]

Using the roster as a defense for Hynes is certainly valid.

What doesn't serve as a defense for Hynes and is a glaring issue, is many of the mistakes made on the ice are as a result of a hodge podge system. From the start of the season, the same positional mistakes have been made consistently over and over along with several other consistent issues. Much of it is basic hockey 101 that no matter how bad a roster is, at least somewhat of a structure in place would have at least things looking more fluid. That is where the issue is with Hynes and it is pretty significant. You hope he can adjust going into next season, but it was not a good 82 game sample for him to say the least.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Using the roster as a defense for Hynes is certainly valid.

What doesn't serve as a defense for Hynes and is a glaring issue, is many of the mistakes made on the ice are as a result of a hodge podge system. From the start of the season, the same positional mistakes have been made consistently over and over along with several other consistent issues. Much of it is basic hockey 101 that no matter how bad a roster is, at least somewhat of a structure in place would have at least things looking more fluid. That is where the issue is with Hynes and it is pretty significant. You hope he can adjust going into next season, but it was not a good 82 game sample for him to say the least.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

Agreed. I understand that we may not have the best group of players, however, I don't see any type of structure what so ever. And that's on the coach.

 

[Triumph]

I don't have a super strong belief that making a goalie change will spark a team or anything like that. My issue is keeping him in the game after that many goals allowed in such short time. Why do it? He should have been mercy pulled when after 5 goals in 25-ish minutes.

I don't see why he should be kept in there, I'd either pull him for efficiency purposes or pull him to stop the embarrassment.

What does a 'mercy pull' accomplish? A guy's having a rough night and so you pull him to save his pride? Again, these are customs that have evolved in the NHL, but there's no reason why it necessarily should be that way. Lundqvist used to pull himself from games (or at least it looked that way) but other than that I have no idea how goalies feel about being switched. Maybe they don't actually like it.

 

[mtnet]

I don't have a super strong belief that making a goalie change will spark a team or anything like that. My issue is keeping him in the game after that many goals allowed in such short time. Why do it? He should have been mercy pulled when after 5 goals in 25-ish minutes.

I don't see why he should be kept in there, I'd either pull him for efficiency purposes or pull him to stop the embarrassment.

That's my take as well, serves no purpose keeping him in. There's just no upside to it so may as well let the guy call it a day when you can see he's either floundering or his confidence is shot.

Does it matter in the grand scheme of a meaningless game we should probably lose anyway? Not really, but Hynes could quietly substitute Kinkaid to start the 3rd once we had 5GA.

You could tell Schneider was cooked by the 2nd intermission anyway, just didn't look like his head was in the game leading up to that point.

 

[tailfins]

Agreed. I understand that we may not have the best group of players, however, I don't see any type of structure what so ever. And that's on the coach.

Agree.

This team has:
- Hall: #1OA, who everyone agrees is good
- Palmieri: budding star on RW
- Henrique, Zajac, Cammalleri: veterans who have been on winning teams before, and should be able to play strong two way game
- Zacha: #6OA rookie who is playing well
- Schneider: Top 5 goalie who was obtained with #9OA pick
- Greene: mobile, veteran defender with high hockey IQ
- Merrill: turned into a serviceable bottom 4 defender
- Severson, Santini: budding young defenders

That's a roster that should be better than this.

Sure, the team is missing both top pair D.

But, star goaltender is in place. Star forward is in place. Reliable top 6 scoring exists. And youth for the forward corps and d corps is being mixed in.

It's not like Hynes was handed an expansion roster.

 

[devilsblood]

What does a 'mercy pull' accomplish? A guy's having a rough night and so you pull him to save his pride? Again, these are customs that have evolved in the NHL, but there's no reason why it necessarily should be that way. Lundqvist used to pull himself from games (or at least it looked that way) but other than that I have no idea how goalies feel about being switched. Maybe they don't actually like it.

Patrick Roy in his final days in MTL is a classic example of a guy definitely wanting the mercy pull.

Maybe Cory is different? Maybe they've discussed it? That goes back to Bleed's point about reporters actually asking these questions.

 

[devilsblood]

Agree.

This team has:
- Hall: #1OA, who everyone agrees is good
- Palmieri: budding star on RW
- Henrique, Zajac, Cammalleri: veterans who have been on winning teams before, and should be able to play strong two way game
- Zacha: #6OA rookie who is playing well
- Schneider: Top 5 goalie who was obtained with #9OA pick
- Greene: mobile, veteran defender with high hockey IQ
- Merrill: turned into a serviceable bottom 4 defender
- Severson, Santini: budding young defenders

That's a roster that should be better than this.

Sure, the team is missing both top pair D.

But, star goaltender is in place. Star forward is in place. Reliable top 6 scoring exists. And youth for the forward corps and d corps is being mixed in.

It's not like Hynes was handed an expansion roster.

Maybe you are overvaluing all those guys.

But lack of both a #1 C and a true #1 d-man are tough to overcome.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

One more thing on Cory

He only has 2 shutouts this year. If he had this same sub 91% save percentage with 5 or 6 shutouts or his career norm in shutouts, that would be even more concerning. If he had 6 shutouts this year and was posting these kinds of numbers, that would mean he's playing even worse in the games that he's not collecting shutouts in than he already is.

Pretty sure those shutouts came when he didn't see over 30 shots in a game. One of them he saw at most 22 shots and the other he didn't see over over 20. So they weren't even really good performances from him, but more the team playing well.