Peak Erik Karlsson vs Makar now

[Ben White]

Who was/is better?

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[TheRarestDangles]

Lol the one who just won the Stanley Cup/Conn Smythe/Norris

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Karlsson, by quite a bit. But Makar has room to grow.

 

[biturbo19]

Peak Erik Karlsson was a pretty transcendent talent. Makar is great, but Karlsson was otherworldly in his offensive impact for those peak years. He basically was the Senators offense.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Easily Makar. His own tier at this point for modern defensemen.

 

[the_fan]

Karlsson does have one more Norris trophy than Makar but that will change when Makar wins few more. Other than that I don't see what makes Karlsson better. His best point production year was 82 points in 82 games and was a minus 2. Then he had more minus seasons like minus 25, 18, 15 etc...

Makar is over PPG in regular season and playoffs, never had a minus season in the NHL so far, has a Conn Smythe, Norris and a cup. This is Makar and not even remotely close

 

[Regal]

Karlsson does have one more Norris trophy than Makar but that will change when Makar wins few more. Other than that I don't see what makes Karlsson better. His best point production year was 82 points in 82 games and was a minus 2. Then he had more minus seasons like minus 25, 18, 15 etc...

Makar is over PPG in regular season and playoffs, never had a minus season in the NHL so far, has a Conn Smythe, Norris and a cup. This is Makar and not even remotely close

Makar is on a much better team (plus minus) and in a much higher scoring league (points) though.

 

[apparentlyclueless]

Karlsson does have one more Norris trophy than Makar but that will change when Makar wins few more. Other than that I don't see what makes Karlsson better. His best point production year was 82 points in 82 games and was a minus 2. Then he had more minus seasons like minus 25, 18, 15 etc...

Makar is over PPG in regular season and playoffs, never had a minus season in the NHL so far, has a Conn Smythe, Norris and a cup. This is Makar and not even remotely close

Yeah, and the year Karlsson scored 82 he was tied fourth in points. Makar was 21st last year.

We'll see If Makar will ever even crack top-10.

 

[the_fan]

Makar is on a much better team (plus minus) and in a much higher scoring league (points) though.

Better team has nothing to do with individual defending. Not only Makar has a better point production season over PPG, and more goals than Karlsson's best season, Makar is also a better defender than Karlsson was. Karlsson's offensive game was elite, but his defense was bellow average

 

[the_fan]

Yeah, and the year Karlsson scored 82 he was tied fourth in points. Makar was 21st last year.

We'll see If Makar will ever even crack top-10.

Karlsson being tied for 4th in points with 82 means there are more high end point producers now than during Karlsson era. How many 80, 90 and 100 point players we have now compared to those days?

 

[Wateredgarden]

Peak Karlsson.

 

[apparentlyclueless]

Karlsson being tied for 4th in points with 82 means there are more high end point producers now than during Karlsson era. How many 80, 90 and 100 point players we have now compared to those days?

Duh, this is quite obvious. I fail to see your point.

League-wide scoring was so low during those years that you can't meaningfully compare stats like you're doing.

 

[Xirik]

Lol the one who just won the Stanley Cup/Conn Smythe/Norris

ROFL LMAO who had the better team surounding him?

Indulge me and explain how Bobby Ryan and Hoffman are = to Mackinnon and Rantanen

Karlsson also won the Norris twice so I guess that makes him automatically better.

Try making a better argument.

 

[Kuz]

Karlsson being tied for 4th in points with 82 means there are more high end point producers now than during Karlsson era. How many 80, 90 and 100 point players we have now compared to those days?

You cant be serious. Scoring goals was way harder during those years.

Makar was 20th in scoring while Karlsson was 4th. Among the players in front of Makar last year was Kane, Gaudreau, Ovechkin, Kadri, Josi, Stamkos, Panarin, MacKinnon and Josi. The only one of those in front of Karlsson was Kane in his prime.

One of the two other in front of Karlsson was a younger Crosby 3 points ahead. Crosby had 1.06 per game that year, last year he had 1.22 and would have beaten Makar by 10 points if he had played a full season. Ovechkin had 0,90 that year and 1,17 last year. Both have aged well, but you are very wrong if you believe the league hasnt changed and scoring is not easier today.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Hard to say. Probably Makar because of his more complete game.

EK at his best was fantastic. Not many Dmen will finish the Olympics tied as the top scorer and not be on the ice for a single goal against.

 

[Buck Naked]

Still Karlsson. Makar's Conn Smythe is overrated. He dominated in two series against two teams with abysmal goaltending and D. In the other two series he was not the best D. I still hold him as the best D in the league, but the comparisons with Orr and stuff that's been going on lately are ridiculous.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Not sure. Close.

If forced to choose, I'd pick 2017 playoff Karlsson.

 

[Ben White]

Not sure. Close.

If forced to choose, I'd pick 2017 playoff Karlsson.

I have yet to see the level of 2013 pre Achilles injury Karlsson from Makar

 

[Ben White]

ROFL LMAO who had the better team surounding him?

Indulge me and explain how Bobby Ryan and Hoffman are = to Mackinnon and Rantanen

Karlsson also won the Norris twice so I guess that makes him automatically better.

Try making a better argument.

Also Karlsson shouldve had 4 norrises, his best seasons were in 15-16 and 16-17, where he scandalously finished 2nd. In 12-13 (post injury) and 13-14 he was recovering from a career threatening achilles injury so he couldn’t be in the Norris mix, but after recovering he immediately won the Norris in 2015. Then after his outstanding playoff run on one foot in 2017 (where he was one of few non finalists in history to receive a Conn Smythe vote) his last injury was the nail in the coffin for EK’s prime. Just imagine EK without those injuries. We’re talking an entire generation of Dmen not sniffing the Norris. Makar has a long way to go to touch prime EK.

 

[tstracuzza]

Also Karlsson shouldve had 4 norrises, his best seasons were in 15-16 and 16-17, where he scandalously finished 2nd. In 12-13 (post injury) and 13-14 he was recovering from a career threatening achilles injury so he couldn’t be in the Norris mix, but after recovering he immediately won the Norris in 2015. Then after his outstanding playoff run on one foot in 2017 (where he was one of few non finalists in history to receive a Conn Smythe vote) his last injury was the nail in the coffin for EK’s prime. Just imagine EK without those injuries. We’re talking an entire generation of Dmen not sniffing the Norris. Makar has a long way to go to touch prime EK.

Yes 100%. Karlsson in his prime was the most impactful Dman I've seen.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I have yet to see the level of 2013 pre Achilles injury Karlsson from Makar

Prime Karlsson was a zone exits God.

Can't believe he didn't win a Cup in Ottawa during his peak.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I have yet to see the level of 2013 pre Achilles injury Karlsson from Makar

You haven't seen Makar make those types of plays yet?

 

[avsfan09]

You haven't seen Makar make those types of plays yet?

Almost like he hasn't watched him very closely.

 

[Caps8112]

dont know how this can be gauged but one of them had an all star team and the other had the Ottawa Senators. Ive never defended Karlsson before but Makars Avalanche was infinitely better then any team Karlsson had to work with.

 

[the_fan]

Duh, this is quite obvious. I fail to see your point.

League-wide scoring was so low during those years that you can't meaningfully compare stats like you're doing.

You cant be serious. Scoring goals was way harder during those years.

Makar was 20th in scoring while Karlsson was 4th. Among the players in front of Makar last year was Kane, Gaudreau, Ovechkin, Kadri, Josi, Stamkos, Panarin, MacKinnon and Josi. The only one of those in front of Karlsson was Kane in his prime.

One of the two other in front of Karlsson was a younger Crosby 3 points ahead. Crosby had 1.06 per game that year, last year he had 1.22 and would have beaten Makar by 10 points if he had played a full season. Ovechkin had 0,90 that year and 1,17 last year. Both have aged well, but you are very wrong if you believe the league has changed and scoring is easier today.

I knew this argument was gonna come up. I mean I get scoring has changed, but it's not like Makar couldn't put up points during Karlsson era. He could very well still outscore Karlsson and also still be better defensively