Prospect Info: Patrik Nemeth

[Captain Awesome]

Disagree. It was made pretty clear over the summer that Nemeth had a real shot of being on the team this season had it not been for his last few injuries. Agreed on Jokipakka though. Give him another year or two.

In the case of Nemeth for Goligoski, it wouldn't matter even if he was ready. Nemeth does not at all bring what Goligoski can on the offensive side of the puck and it would probably screw up what little offense we do get from the back end. I don't think you can replace one with the other and come out ahead.

 

[Bluesoma]

In the case of Nemeth for Goligoski, it wouldn't matter even if he was ready. Nemeth does not at all bring what Goligoski can on the offensive side of the puck and it would probably screw up what little offense we do get from the back end. I don't think you can replace one with the other and come out ahead.

Are you kidding?! Nemeth got two goals recently! He's totally in the pipeline for replacing Goligoski (sarcasm).

Nemeth and Goligoski are completely different players. Nemeth is a shutdown d-man with only decent puck skills and above average skating. He relies more on his positioning and playing the body. He is not, I repeat, *not* the defenseman that would start a breakout from his zone. He'll do a decent job at helping keep the puck in the offensive zone once it's in there.

Now, pairing Nemeth with Goligoski might be interesting. They've sort of been doing something like that in CPC with Nemeth with Meech.

 

[BigG44]

Why on Earth would the two even be tied together. If anything it should be Klingberg and Goligoski ... or more like it giving Connauton an opportunity at some of Goli's/Gonchar's PP time and adding Klingberg to the mix.

Dallas needs guys like Nemeth regardless of what they do with defenders like Goose, Klingberg, and Connauton. You can only have so many bruisers and so many scorers on the defense. If Klingberg and Connauton can do what Goose does, trade him. If Dillon and Nemeth can handle the ruff stuff great. You need both.

 

[FrailSwan]

In the case of Nemeth for Goligoski, it wouldn't matter even if he was ready. Nemeth does not at all bring what Goligoski can on the offensive side of the puck and it would probably screw up what little offense we do get from the back end. I don't think you can replace one with the other and come out ahead.

When did I ever talk about replacing Goligoski with Nemeth? I actually partnered them together in one of these threads so that Nemeth could anchor against Golgioski's defensive problems.

 

[Captain Awesome]

Well, seeing as how my entire post was about replacing the defensemen we've all grown to resent, and then you disagreeing about Nemeth's readiness, I assumed you were also arguing that some of these guys (such as Goligoski and Daley) are replaceable by a guy like Nemeth. Jesus you mother****ers are touchy today.

I'm pretty pessimistic about any of our new D-men's abilities to become what we all hope they will, especially since outside of Dillon we haven't proven much. Speaking of the pipe dreams thread, I'd be pretty surprised if Klingberg was able to skip the AHL and move right to the NHL, the guy doesn't exactly have a great history when it comes to switching leagues, much less ones where there's a significant gap in skill level and play. I hope he surprises me, but I think he's going to be in the AHL for a little while.

 

[Troy McClure]

I'm also not sure if there are any top four d-men in the system, but my bigger worry is timing. There doesn't seem to be any immediate help available. They all seem like long shots to make the team this next season. Reports about Oleksiak make him seem like a long-term project.

 

[Cin]

Nemeth and Oleksiak are top 4 ceiling defenders. No doubt about it.

I disagree on a couple of points blue soma made about Nemeth. I think he's actually a very mobile defensive defenseman. He's actually a pretty damn good skater for how big he is. He's also a pretty decent passer, and I could see him starting some quick transitions and a few breakouts.

 

[Bluesoma]

Nemeth like I said is a decent skater but he's not going to burn anyone or dance through people. He has gotten better starting some offense but more often than not will defer to his defensive partner (recently Meech).

 

[Rune Forumwalker]

goose won't be bought out--he can be traded if they want rid of him, traded for a pick or something--at least get some value out of him

He isn't being traded for a pick. Any trade would be some sort of hockey trade with another player (and salary) going the other way, if not part of some kind of package of assets for another asset/package.

 

[aloonda*]

He isn't being traded for a pick. Any trade would be some sort of hockey trade with another player (and salary) going the other way, if not part of some kind of package of assets for another asset/package.

you said what I was trying to better than I did. agreed.

What I hope is that they move him for a center and make some room for the young d to move up if nill thinks they are ready

 

[glovesave_35]

As much as I harped on Goligoski and wanted him banished earlier in the season, lately he has proven to me that at least he can offer some things to the team that no other defenseman on the roster can. I still don't really like him as a player, and he still has one or two eye-roll-inducing moments a game, but if he were slotted in further down the lineup and seriously sheltered he would be more useful.

Such a maddening player.

 

[BigG44]

As much as I harped on Goligoski and wanted him banished earlier in the season, lately he has proven to me that at least he can offer some things to the team that no other defenseman on the roster can. I still don't really like him as a player, and he still has one or two eye-roll-inducing moments a game, but if he were slotted in further down the lineup and seriously sheltered he would be more useful.

Such a maddening player.

The hardest thing is the talent gap between him and other teams primary offensive D. Nearly every other offensive D makes as many boneheaded mistakes as he does. They seem to have a better overall impact on the game in the offensive zone though. It's great his stats look good, and sometimes he does make a good play that results in points. Overall though, even in this 7 points in 9 or 10 game stretch, I don't recall much of anything from him.

That makes me wonder if he's just leeching 2nd assists from others or what because the eye test doesn't often seem to line p with the stat sheet on the guy, and I'm purely talking about offense.

 

[BigG44]

Per Behind the Net .... 33.7% of his ES points are goals, 57.8% primary assists, and only 8.5% secondary.

On the PP it's 8.3% goals, 41.7% primary assist, and 50% secondary.

 

[Cin]

Nemeth like I said is a decent skater but he's not going to burn anyone or dance through people. He has gotten better starting some offense but more often than not will defer to his defensive partner (recently Meech).

Ah okay we're in total agreement then.

One thing that really caught my eye about him last night was how he plays the point with solid zone possession and a cycle going deep in the zone. I don't really think this was a coahcing thing either because I didn't see any other defenseman doing this. But he would cycle down below Hamilton's highest forward and coax him into staying deeper in his defensive zone. He'd then circle back up to the line and just wait for the easy outlet pass because he wasn't marked anymore. His pinching also benefited form this tactic, because it always caught Hamilton off guard and he the puck didn't get past him once.

Just a really small thing I noticed that made a massive impact on the flow of the game. Really smart play.

 

[glovesave_35]

He seems to be smart enough to realize the best way to score is to get the puck to either Seguin or Benn. The only play that resulted in a goal where I (vaguely) remember him being "in" on the play was a couple games ago when he carried it in deep on the left side and made a nice pass to stud A or B, don't remember which.

You mentioned the other offensive D, which brings me to Connauton. I liked what I saw from him early on but lately I have been really unimpressed. He will get into position to bang in a back door goal off a broken play only to double clutch and flub the puck entirely. A good number of times those plays turn into rushes the other way.

 

[Rune Forumwalker]

Per Behind the Net .... 33.7% of his ES points are goals, 57.8% primary assists, and only 8.5% secondary.

On the PP it's 8.3% goals, 41.7% primary assist, and 50% secondary.

Sounds like a "no" to the leeching of secondary assists.

 

[aloonda*]

how do any of our younger d guys compare to kronwall?

 

[aloonda*]

also, how does nemeth compare to grossmann for the flyers?

 

[oconnor9sean]

how do any of our younger d guys compare to kronwall?

Kronwall is, IMO, as close to being a number 1 D, but not quite it, as it gets. He's very good, and a top 2 D for sure, but I don't know if I'd consider him a true #1.

If Oleksiak can progress into what we think he can, he is a Kronwall comparison.

 

[aloonda*]

Kronwall is, IMO, as close to being a number 1 D, but not quite it, as it gets. He's very good, and a top 2 D for sure, but I don't know if I'd consider him a true #1.

If Oleksiak can progress into what we think he can, he is a Kronwall comparison.

that's still pretty exciting

 

[BigG44]

I didn't recall how Nemeth was injured, but this makes me feel much better:

The next step in Nemeth’s game is completing a full season healthy in North America. He missed 41 games due to a broken foot and an injured wrist — both the result of blocked shots — but now wears added protection on his gloves and skates.

When you block shots ... it's going to happen, and it doesn't mean you're injury prone. The concussion from last year is behind him.

It's definitely something to watch with the guy, but at least this year isn't the result of his body being wore down or something you'd consider potentially reoccurring.

 

[BigG44]

One thing we haven't discussed ...

Just like Teravainen, Klingberg could theoretically join the Dallas Stars right now. Consider the fact that Connauton has fallen a bit out of favor, and Rome isn't exactly a presence. Then consider how much Ruff and Nill have talked about valuing a right shot on defense. Plus Daley has done very little with his PP time (1 point all season, an assist).

The hurdle is fitting him in. Dillon and Benn have played great together, Goligoski only seems to play well with Daley, and Gonchar (who prefers RD anyway) isn't much of a partner for Klingberg.

So ... do you gamble and rock the boat? Benn has played well with Gonchar at times. I don't think you have a shutdown pair though if you break up Dillon-Benn.

Dillon-Klingberg
Goligoski-Daley
Benn-Gonchar

At this point, I agree with Razor you probably need 15 of a possible 20 points. Status quo probably doesn't get you in, but this is far from a guaranteed improvement.

You can't burn a year on his contract because of his age. This contract year is gone regardless. Might be worth looking at John in practice and some games to see if could help you the last 6 or 8 games once he finally arrived in NA and settled in. If he's not ready or Dallas misses the playoffs, he's still eligible to play for Texas in the playoffs.

 

[glovesave_35]

I was thinking this yesterday. You guys were discussing how everybody can fit in Austin when the NCAA/Juniors/European players join the baby Stars; I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see Klingberg in Dallas.

My guess is it would really come down to how the Stars feel about Connauton and Rome. Personally, I've been less than thrilled with Connauton's play and Rome is just Rome. Another factor might be to consider the pressure of dropping a guy who's played in Europe all year right into the thick of a playoff race (though personally I think Nill would see that as a risk worth taking).

Management has surely talked Klingberg up enough to grease a possible landing in Dallas rather than Austin.

 

[piqued]

It's a possibility... what makes me a little skeptical is that the reinforcement type moves here lately don't really seem geared to what's best for Dallas, but rather what's best for the prospects in CP and what disturbs Texas the least. I don't know. Maybe Klingberg is thought of so highly internally that he's even beyond the "worried about the transition" stage.

Something's got to change though. You can't be putting Aaron Rome in your lineup and say with a straight face you're serious about making the playoffs.

 

[beepeearr]

I was thinking this yesterday. You guys were discussing how everybody can fit in Austin when the NCAA/Juniors/European players join the baby Stars; I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see Klingberg in Dallas.

My guess is it would really come down to how the Stars feel about Connauton and Rome. Personally, I've been less than thrilled with Connauton's play and Rome is just Rome. Another factor might be to consider the pressure of dropping a guy who's played in Europe all year right into the thick of a playoff race (though personally I think Nill would see that as a risk worth taking).

Management has surely talked Klingberg up enough to grease a possible landing in Dallas rather than Austin.

Look at Phoenix, they are taking risks, and benching vets that aren't producing. If we do make the playoffs though, it will be interesting to see if our vets can find another gear.