Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - MOD WARNING IN OP

[PhilJets]

Never saw this before.

Laine is wearing Uggs

NO ****S GIVEN

He got the pointy finger roll from houston bearded one, when he scores a goal.

 

[PhilJets]

He's too slow for the 1st line and how they play - I don't think Wheels or Scheif want to spend their ice time digging out pucks for Laine while he stands as the top of the circle. In fact, that may be why he didn't spend much time on the top line this year.
I'm hoping the kid works hard in an effort to better round out his game - become a more complete player. When that happens, it shouldn't be so hard to fit him into a line. As it stands, he expects his line mates to do a lot of the work for him - good luck talking your top line players into that.

And don't blame Maurice for the make up of the first line - I think the C and the A are a major contributor in calling the shots on who fills the open wing.

This is so wrong in so many different ways.

I don't even have the energy to response to each sentences



Sorry

 

[PhilJets]

No player will be a perfect speciment.

Some will be better in parts of their game than others.

Example
Tanev his motor is top notch

But Laine got the most important skills in spade. Scoring
I kind of understand why people want to make him better in other areas.(which he will). To make him a monster player.

The closest i've seen were

Mario Lemiuex ( though as per some his dgame is not as good)
Eric Lindros
And i think Jaromir Jagr ? A notch lower.

I didn't see Gordie Howe play.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Sure CSW was better with their 5 on 5 play in the playoffs, but part of it came still also from playing loads of minutes and then eventually they got obviously gassed against Vegas. But I think that spreading the line driving wealth and the minutes more even in the regular season would have also helped the Jets not get so gassed against the speedskating grinders that Vegas is.

Yeah this is what I thought. Hopefully next year Maurice decides to put a speedster of our own at 2C and shelter him with Wheelers line driving skill so we don’t have to rely on one line all season to score 5v5 and in the playoffs as well. If Maurice works the Top 6 properly next season we will likely be better.

 

[Halberdier]

Did CSW not work well 5 on 5 in the playoffs or what? They've always outscored their opposition, but they're not as good defensively as some like to think, I'll admit that.

At least Wheeler was -1 on 5-on-5, so they didn't always outscore their opposition. Scheifele had better stats though. Some people looked those stats with empty netters included and they did several of those.

Laine, Stastny and Ehlers on the other hand did "always" outscore their opposition 5-on-5.

 

[LowLefty]

I’m sorry but on the basis of what is Laine really too slow to play with Scheifele and Wheeler? On the basis of your eye maybe? In his first season Laine played a lot with Scheifele and Ehlers and they did very well especially in scoring clearly more goals than letting the opponents score against them. Scheifele and Ehlers are definitely as fast linemates as Scheifele and Wheeler, so there is not really evidence in what you are claiming. And in fact Laine scored most of his 5 on 5 goals with them on the rush, so he was definitely not waiting and just standing (which he is in fact never doing really, as he constantly moves around even on the power play) around. ESL’s 5 on 5 goal difference was in fact very good despite Laine and Ehlers having problems on the boards and making quick breakouts from their own end. There was for sure still some problems in these areas even during this season, but they did at least get already better with them.

And yet despite some of these not so eye pleasing issues, ESL managed to be a better 5 on 5 line than CSW this season, and that happened when Laine and Ehlers were physically weaker and less experienced.

It’s lame in my opinion to assume things and set them in stone without even bothering to try anything else. That is what Maurice has been doing with CSW. Sure they have scored quite well, but the opponents have scored also against them way too often to call CSW a very good and optimal 1st line. If you don’t even bother to experiment several games with Laine and Scheifele, and preferably Perreault or Connor in the same line, then you will for sure not get any results with that combination, and you can then hide behind the fact that CSW has scored pretty well, even though they haven’t been that good at scoring clearly more goals than they get scored against.

I don’t see Wheeler and Laine as a too good fit in 5 on 5 hockey, so that would also encourage to keep Wheeler being a line driver in an other line than where Scheifele plays in. And if you seriously think that Scheifele and Wheeler are behind the decision of them playing constantly together even though not being a real 5 on 5 goal difference force together, then I will blame Maurice even more for it. It’s the coaches job to make decisions that are making the team as good and as efficient as possible, not to make the biggest star players happy with letting them play exactly how they want to play, or to please the eyes of anyone of us instead of getting the maximum efficiency out from the team. By sticking to the same things, that obviously don’t work optimally (but more like relatively well or just ok), Maurice is definitely not doing what is best for the team. He is too rigid and stubborn as a coach to do that, and yet at the same time he is keen on trusting and pleasing his vets over what could be still best for the team, without even bothering to try it.

I believe Maurice recognizes that the 1st line relies on speed/quickness and board work / cycle game to be effective - Laine doesn't fit under those conditions.
Why do you think Maurice doesn't play Laine on the 1st line? Why do you think he prefers to use KC? Read the line above for the answer.
This might boil down to who is right - you or the coach. I'm with the coach.
I'm hoping they can build a second line that works with Laine because I don't see him playing 1st line until he improves the weaknesses described.

I'm not here to argue with you - no offence intended but there is no need to write another short story reiterating your POV.
In a nutshell, I believe Maurice is doing what is best for this team and you don't - I'm OK with that.

 

[Ducky10]

At least Wheeler was -1 on 5-on-5, so they didn't always outscore their opposition. Scheifele had better stats though. Some people looked those stats with empty netters included and they did several of those.

Laine, Stastny and Ehlers on the other hand did "always" outscore their opposition 5-on-5.

This is true, but to be fair they play against different opposition, less and in different situations. Not saying CSW is great defensively, just that it isn't quite and apples to apples comparison.

 

[PhilJets]

I believe Maurice recognizes that the 1st line relies on speed/quickness and board work / cycle game to be effective - Laine doesn't fit under those conditions.
Why do you think Maurice doesn't play Laine on the 1st line? Why do you think he prefers to use KC? Read the line above for the answer.
This might boil down to who is right - you or the coach. I'm with the coach.
I'm hoping they can build a second line that works with Laine because I don't see him playing 1st line until he improves the weaknesses described.

I'm not here to argue with you - no offence intended but there is no need to write another short story reiterating your POV.
In a nutshell, I believe Maurice is doing what is best for this team and you don't - I'm OK with that.

Maurice doesnt play Laine on the first line, becausr Maurice wants Laine to play RW.
And Jets currently employs a top 3 right wing in the league. He is also the heart of the team, captain of the team.

Laine is simply not going to unseat 26 that fast. Eventually yes. Maybe next year or the following year.
People are just trying to nitpick on Laine.

That is the only reason.
Laine is number 1 Rw in most teams in the league already if you slot him in the other teams.

Laine and Schiefele in some sample size during Laine rookie year had some insane offensive production number with Schiefele leading the league in scoring at some point and Laine was top 10 in scoring at 18 years old. Laine even took the lead in Jets scoring midway through his rookie year before he took that massive hit.

Then Laine followed thst up with 44 goals 70 point season. 12 points in 17 playoff games.

Jets are really good because

They have 2 legit rw in the league top 5
2 top 30 lw in the league
1 top 5 c in the league
A 4th line that can score more than 20 goals
The best sets of rd in the league
And top 2 goalie in the league.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Brett Hull was a shit player. Brett Hull could score like no ones business. You win games by scoring goals. I have to sit at work and listen to people who never played hockey dump on laine because he doesn't skate fast. They won't care how fast he skates when he scores 50 plus next year

 

[scelaton]

Brett Hull was a **** player. Brett Hull could score like no ones business. You win games by scoring goals. I have to sit at work and listen to people who never played hockey dump on laine because he doesn't skate fast. They won't care how fast he skates when he scores 50 plus next year

There aren't many people dumping on Laine here. Most of us love the kid and have high hopes for him. The divide seems to be between those who see him, without doubt, as a generational player vs those who see some risk in his trajectory.
Brett Hull is an interesting comparitor skill-wise, although I see Laine as way more mature and focused for his age. But Brent is generally considered a pure sniper, as such is on some but not all lists of top-100 NHL players, and not in the same tier as the best wingers of all time.
Aspiring to be a Brett Hull is nothing to be ashamed of. But if Laine wants even more, he'll have to round out his game. Also, the NHL is different than 30 years ago--quickness is king and weaknesses are exploited readily, even in great players.

 

[Ippenator]

I believe Maurice recognizes that the 1st line relies on speed/quickness and board work / cycle game to be effective - Laine doesn't fit under those conditions.
Why do you think Maurice doesn't play Laine on the 1st line? Why do you think he prefers to use KC? Read the line above for the answer.
This might boil down to who is right - you or the coach. I'm with the coach.
I'm hoping they can build a second line that works with Laine because I don't see him playing 1st line until he improves the weaknesses described.

I'm not here to argue with you - no offence intended but there is no need to write another short story reiterating your POV.
In a nutshell, I believe Maurice is doing what is best for this team and you don't - I'm OK with that.

I see it seriously so that Maurice’s reluctance to play Laine with Scheifele has definitely to do with something else than Laine’s play. It screams some secret agenda, as the only times that Laine has really played more with Scheifele was in Laine’s rookie season. And the ones that they played together both of them were generally destroying the league. More points than at any point of their career for each of them and at the same time their 5 on 5 goal difference was best of the team for last two years.

Last time I checked the aim in hockey is to score much more goals against your opponents than they score against you, so I definitely find it very hard to prove that Scheifele and Laine don’t fit extremely well to the same line. Even board play becomes a pretty meaningless thing, if still when you are on the ice you practically always score more goals than you get scored against. Isn't’ it funny how this keeps happening with Laine, no matter who he seems to be playing with? Could it be after all another kind of conspiracy? Maybe Laine’s mom and pops have rigged Laine’s stats? Can’t be that one dimensional and defensively horrible player being the best in the team with his 5 on 5 goal difference for the past two seasons, or can he?

 

[ps241]

So I was stopped today on Corydon to gas up my vehicle and a nice Audi pulls up and the guy is kind of trying to figure out where to park at the pump. I notice him and think hmmmm that looks a bit like Laine? Sure enough this 6'5" kid in sweats and a scruffy look gets out and starts filling up. Within a few minutes a couple walking by comes over and very politely asks for a photo op and he is cool about it........as I am pulling away out of the car wash another couple of people are politely approaching him with their phone cameras out. Everyone was cool but I was thinking f*** this is intense. Those were literally the only 4 people on the street other than me during that 3-5 minute window.

 

[f1nn]

I see it seriously so that Maurice’s reluctance to play Laine with Scheifele has definitely to do with something else than Laine’s play. It screams some secret agenda, as the only times that Laine has really played more with Scheifele was in Laine’s rookie season. And the ones that they played together both of them were generally destroying the league. More points than at any point of their career for each of them and at the same time their 5 on 5 goal difference was best of the team for last two years.

Last time I checked the aim in hockey is to score much more goals against your opponents than they score against you, so I definitely find it very hard to prove that Scheifele and Laine don’t fit extremely well to the same line. Even board play becomes a pretty meaningless thing, if still when you are on the ice you practically always score more goals than you get scored against. Isn't’ it funny how this keeps happening with Laine, no matter who he seems to be playing with? Could it be after all another kind of conspiracy? Maybe Laine’s mom and pops have rigged Laine’s stats? Can’t be that one dimensional and defensively horrible player being the best in the team with his 5 on 5 goal difference for the past two seasons, or can he?

While I would like to see Laine get some more icetime with Scheifele next year also, can you cut this conspiracy theory shit out?

Didn't you (or was it someone else) argue earlier in the thread that the ESL in fact does outscore their opponents?

edit: typos

 

[winnipegger]

Not worried about Laine. Most players are struggling to hold a full time NHL job at his age. He's going through the learning pains at such a young age. It's staggering to think what kind of athlete he will be at Wheeler's age.

 

[Ippenator]

While I would like to see Laine get some more icetime with Scheifele next year also, can you cut this conspiracy theory **** out?

Didn't you (or was it someone else) argue earlier in the thread that the ESL in fact does outscore their opponents?

edit: typos

My point is really that I don’t know for sure what is the reason why Maurice does not want to play Laine and Scheifele in the same line, but it sure can’t be because of them not playing really well together, as we have seen that happen very succesfully already in Laine’s rookie season. I’m not claiming that I know what the reason really is, but obviously it is something that Maurice wants to keep as a secret, as he has not clearly pointed the reason out, and he has been completely unwilling to try Laine and Scheifele together at all. Completely absurd after how well they were outscoring the opponents together during Laine’s rookie season.

I’m not sure what you really mean with your point about ESL, but no, I have not argued against ESL outscoring their opponents in general, but I did point out at some point that I wouldn't see Ehlers as the ideal player to play with Laine and Scheifele, but I would rather see Perreault with them, as PSL has been the best Jets line in outscoring the opponents for the last two seasons. I would also see rather Connor with Laine and Scheifele than Ehlers. I just don’t unfortunately see real naturally good chemistry on the ice between Laine and Ehlers. They might show occasional glimpses of chemistry sometimes, but it is definitely not happening often enough. To me it looks like they both think too differently about offensive play in hockey. Also they both are clearly shoot first type of players, so for them to work really well together, they would need to have a very good playmaker with them. Stastny did work pretty well with them quite often, as he is a quite good playmaker. Scheifele would be definitely better for them though.

 

[BB88]

Sorry, but you are in for a serious disappointment, if you believe that he will be considerably better with his skating already next season. It just doesnt work like that - especially with bigger guys like Laine, whom never were naturally quick with their feet before. He will gradually become better with his skating, but not a very quick and agile skater ever. It’s completely unrealistic to expect him to be already a clearly better skater next season. Some improvement will most probably happen, but I think it’s wise to seriously not expect it to be very different from this season. Unless you want to be disappointed.

But even with the slight improvement with his skating next season, I’m quite optimistic that he will be a better player than this season. I want to see even more him improving his stamina, although I’m not expecting much bigger improvement with that either already next season.

Anyway, if he will get more ice-time than this season, have at least by some margin better first steps and stamina, and most importantly, will not have to play in an abomination of a line like ELL, he will already be a clearly better player with his goal and point production and also a better player in general.

In 3 years you have to be able to show something, someone special should be able to show clear advances.
Laine has been hyped this and that,& he has superstar potential, with that gift/training surroundings he has he should( again) be able to show improvements, and not slight for 3 years(at the end of next season) work.

These kids develop faster and faster these days, I'll be disappointed if he doesn't start taking over games next year. He doesn't need to get a huge boost on his goals but on his impact on ice for me to be happy with his development/season.

He has the potential to be a nightmare to play against, but so far he's been more of a finisher/opportunist.

How many wingers are in the 10 mil range? People throw Eichel and Drai out there but they are centers and centers as the Jets have proven are much more rare than wingers are. Centers have to have a 200ft game while there is less pressure defensively on wingers.
Has the game changed so that players need to be even faster? Will that make Laine less valuable and improve players like Ehlers value?

Goals are worth the most, a kid with the potential of being the best goal scorer through his prime will get paid.

Drai wasn't a full time C when he signed that contract, he isn't even one today. Laine absolutely ....ng destroys his 1st 2 seasons after draft, absolutely destroys them, then you have to pay for the potential, which Laine has more than Drai, unless Laine goes all Barkov and takes less than his worth.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Goals are worth the most, a kid with the potential of being the best goal scorer through his prime will get paid.

Drai wasn't a full time C when he signed that contract, he isn't even one today. Laine absolutely ....ng destroys his 1st 2 seasons after draft, absolutely destroys them, then you have to pay for the potential, which Laine has more than Drai, unless Laine goes all Barkov and takes less than his worth.

It's interesting goals are worth the most, but, the really special quality that should get paid the most imo, is to be able to play with scrubs and make them look great the way Crosby does with Guenzal. That way, you can save money on his linemates and give the money to him instead.

 

[Hunter368]

Laine skating must continue to improve.

 

[LowLefty]

I see it seriously so that Maurice’s reluctance to play Laine with Scheifele has definitely to do with something else than Laine’s play. It screams some secret agenda, as the only times that Laine has really played more with Scheifele was in Laine’s rookie season. And the ones that they played together both of them were generally destroying the league. More points than at any point of their career for each of them and at the same time their 5 on 5 goal difference was best of the team for last two years.

Last time I checked the aim in hockey is to score much more goals against your opponents than they score against you, so I definitely find it very hard to prove that Scheifele and Laine don’t fit extremely well to the same line. Even board play becomes a pretty meaningless thing, if still when you are on the ice you practically always score more goals than you get scored against. Isn't’ it funny how this keeps happening with Laine, no matter who he seems to be playing with? Could it be after all another kind of conspiracy? Maybe Laine’s mom and pops have rigged Laine’s stats? Can’t be that one dimensional and defensively horrible player being the best in the team with his 5 on 5 goal difference for the past two seasons, or can he?

Stop for a minute and recall how Scheif and Wheels play together - they are both extremely high energy guys that play a completely different game than Laine.
Have you ever listened to either of them comment on why they like KC on the line? Because he plays the same type of game - he's high energy, works well along the boards and is very effective in traffic - nifty for lack of a better term.
If you want to run another conspiracy theory up the pole, how about maybe Scheif and Wheels do not want to play on the same line as Laine - they would prefer a player that works like they do - and maybe Maurice is OK with that.

Laine is not the right fit for the top line at this point in his career - hopefully with a lot of hard work, he gets there soon.
Again, I'm a Laine fan that wants him to excel - there's room to improve before he gets the top line slot

 

[John Agar]

Laine's skating.... ?

Lets use Chef as an example on what a driven, focused and right trained (personal specialized coaching) can do....

We used to call Chef.... BAMBI ....

Laine is no BAMBI.... never will be... so he is already ahead of Chef....

Laine worked on core strength this last summer.... he did not skate all summer... He admitted as much....

I am pretty certain this will be a prime focus of his training this summer....

I think Laine will continue to improve every year because he shares similar traits with Chef....


So... I hear Laine's skating is weak... ?

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ippenator]

Stop for a minute and recall how Scheif and Wheels play together - they are both extremely high energy guys that play a completely different game than Laine.
Have you ever listened to either of them comment on why they like KC on the line? Because he plays the same type of game - he's high energy, works well along the boards and is very effective in traffic - nifty for lack of a better term.
If you want to run another conspiracy theory up the pole, how about maybe Scheif and Wheels do not want to play on the same line as Laine - they would prefer a player that works like they do - and maybe Maurice is OK with that.

Laine is not the right fit for the top line at this point in his career - hopefully with a lot of hard work, he gets there soon.
Again, I'm a Laine fan that wants him to excel - there's room to improve before he gets the top line slot

It doesn’t really matter how someones play looks like, if they still get scored against almost as much as they score goals themselves. That is not the point of hockey. It’s not figure skating where the effort should be judged by how much it pleases the eye, but a game where the team that outscores it’s opponents clearly is the best team and the players that outscore their opponents clearly are the best players. Just look at 5 on 5 goal difference and you should realize that Scheifele and Wheeler are not really as good together as they seem to please your eye. On the other hand Laine, Scheifele, Perreault line has been the most efficient line for the Jets in outscoring the opponents during the last two seasons. And ESL was pretty close to PSL in outscoring efficiency. So there is crystal clear evidence that Laine and Scheifele are an extremely good fit already. The most important thing in hockey, which is OUTSCORING your opponents clearly, gives us crystal clear evidence on this.

Outscoring the opponents clearly should always be the goal for any offensive line. Anything else is practically meaningless unless your line is really supposed to be just a shutdown line.

And of course Scheifele and Wheeler will praise anyone whom would be playing with them in the same line. That’s just how it works in any team sport. Or would you expect for them to say that sure KC is a pretty good young talent, but we would still prefer to play with Laine? Even how much they would think like that, they would never ever say it aloud in public. And I’m not saying that KC isn’t a good player. But he is not an optimal player for the 1st line, if the Jets want to be clearly outscoring the opponents with that line. There is the statistical evidence on that. The stats don’t lie even close to as much as the eye lies, especially when defining player efficiency.

 

[Ippenator]

Laine's skating.... ?

Lets use Chef as an example on what a driven, focused and right trained (personal specialized coaching) can do....

We used to call Chef.... BAMBI ....

Laine is no BAMBI.... never will be... so he is already ahead of Chef....

Laine worked on core strength this last summer.... he did not skate all summer... He admitted as much....

I am pretty certain this will be a prime focus of his training this summer....

I think Laine will continue to improve every year because he shares similar traits with Chef....


So... I hear Laine's skating is weak... ?

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He didn’t skate last summer, that is definitely true. But his main focus was still in training the leg muscles that give explosiveness to skating. He did of course do also some training for the core, but still his gain to strength was focused for explosiveness to the legs. Also he was training quite a lot of 400 meter runner’s type of exercises to gain the kind of stamina that he will need in the future. He is just completely in the middle of his development, so people that expect massively that results in just one season will be massively disappointed. I’m still warning that people whom expect that his skating will look already next season much better compared to this season, are setting themselves up for a major disappointment.

Remember that it took Scheifele over 5 seasons of training with Roberts before he has become the beast that he is nowadays.

 

[Ares]

Laine worked on core strength this last summer.... he did not skate all summer... He admitted as much....

I am pretty certain this will be a prime focus of his training this summer....

From his comments regarding his summer training you kind of get the idea he thinks he doesn't need to skate during the summer... I hope he changes that. What worked before when he was playing in Europe might not work the same in the NHL. He has a lot of work to do...

 

[Ippenator]

In 3 years you have to be able to show something, someone special should be able to show clear advances.
Laine has been hyped this and that,& he has superstar potential, with that gift/training surroundings he has he should( again) be able to show improvements, and not slight for 3 years(at the end of next season) work.

These kids develop faster and faster these days, I'll be disappointed if he doesn't start taking over games next year. He doesn't need to get a huge boost on his goals but on his impact on ice for me to be happy with his development/season.

He has the potential to be a nightmare to play against, but so far he's been more of a finisher/opportunist.



Goals are worth the most, a kid with the potential of being the best goal scorer through his prime will get paid.

Drai wasn't a full time C when he signed that contract, he isn't even one today. Laine absolutely ....ng destroys his 1st 2 seasons after draft, absolutely destroys them, then you have to pay for the potential, which Laine has more than Drai, unless Laine goes all Barkov and takes less than his worth.

You don’t still seem to understand how long physical development takes. It took Scheifele over 5 years of intensive training with Gary Roberts to get where he is nowadays physically, and he never had to miss a complete off season in training like Laine did three years ago because of his knee injury and the operation that was done to it. Just relax and have a bit more patience. You should be expecting only in two or three years what you seem to be expecting already for next season from Laine’s physical development. If you do otherwise, I can guarantee that you will be as disappointed as you were about his development for this season.

 

[grieves]

Yeah it's not about "Laine's third season". It's about Laine's 20yo season.

Some people start in the NHL way later, like Selänne for instance. Usually 18yo's don't start right away in the NHL (even fewer score 36 goals right away).