Player Discussion: Patrik Laine - MOD WARNING IN OP

[scelaton]

I honestly don’t know what some people are watching when they talk about Laine. It’s clear he has elite distribution, IQ and vision but is just a step too slow most of the time which makes sense considering he is probably the lankiest, most awkward skater you’ll see atm. The problems he has are easily correctable and people here are thinkin he’s going to regress because?????

He’s simply a lightening rod for criticism considering he’s very visible but Player’s like wheeler and connor who make a comparable amount of mistakes defensively avoid the same criticisms because they are very polished.

The stats back this up. It’s only up from here.

The bolded is a big problem. If there is one thing the Knights series underlined it's that the game is getting faster and that skill without quickness is no guarantee of success.
If Laine improves his acceleration then he may grow into a $10M player. Until then, the jury is out-- he is an elite PP sniper, but not so in any other aspect of his game. It would be a huge cap risk to overpay at this point.

 

[stranger]

Haven't ready any of this long thread...but my only complaint about Laine is his work around the boards, and cycling. He has almost no chance of keeping the puck.

Hopefully he will put in the work. A la Scheifele.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I heard rumour he was suffering from a bad lower body injury during most of playoffs.

Be interesting to see who was playing hurt!

He himself said to the media that he is not hurt

 

[grieves]

The bolded is a big problem. If there is one thing the Knights series underlined it's that the game is getting faster and that skill without quickness is no guarantee of success.
If Laine improves his acceleration then he may grow into a $10M player. Until then, the jury is out-- he is an elite PP sniper, but not so in any other aspect of his game. It would be a huge cap risk to overpay at this point.

The jury is out if he will become succesful in the NHL? You do realize he just scored 40 goals in less ice-time than anyone since ice time has been recorded, while playing in ELL most of the season. Since he joined the league he is second in raw amount of goals scored, a couple behind Ovi.

Tough crowd...

 

[Kaako Kappo]

The jury is out if he will become succesful in the NHL? You do realize he just scored 40 goals in less ice-time than anyone since ice time has been recorded, while playing in ELL most of the season. Since he joined the league he is second in raw amount of goals scored, a couple behind Ovi.

Tough crowd...

I like how he took clear steps forward this season, yet all the talk is super critical. Spoiler alert; his skating will not be that much better next season.

 

[grieves]

I like how he took clear step forwards this season, yet all the talk is super critical. Spoiler alert; his skating will not be that much better next season.

I mean I guess it is a bit abstract to visualize what Laine looks like now to what he should look like in three years or so. People are judging him at face value, and if you do that to a 18-19yo you are going to be critiquing him a lot. Even though he is breaking all kinds of goal-scoring records at this age already.

It's not unfair to critique Laine, it's just mostly a waste of time at this point. Forwards tend to develop rapidly until they are 23yo, and some even after that so my suggestion is to start truly critiquing him in three years or so.

 

[QuietContrarian]

People are being tough on Ehlers and Laine, two youngsters who had a combined 130pts in the regular season.

Some players seem to get free passes.

It is sad we are turning like this on our young players.

 

[NotCommitted]

It's funny how all this critique on Laine doesn't actually show up in a meaningful way in any stat that measures things that decide games. During regular season he led the team in 5v5 goal differential (+18, Scheifele distant second at +13), in playoffs he was one of the best forwards as well in that respect. Btw. same was true for his rookie season, except that season it was Scheifele leading and Laine distant second (+15 & +9). So no matter what your eyes tell you, his actual on-ice stats continue to be excellent when it comes to scoring goals more than your opposition. After 150+ games in the league, I don't believe that is a coincidence. It's funny how this one-dimensional PP specialist continues to be the best or top-2 5v5 player in his team as far as goal differential goes.

Going off the deep end as far as stats go, his WAR stat for regular season was the best for the Jets (if you believe in that stat), also his Corsica rating (I think another attempt at a stat that combines "everything" to decide who is the best) was 2nd best in the team after Scheifele (practically tied).

I think where this stuff he gets critiqued about actually does show up somewhat is Corsi, which sucked in his rookie season and wasn't that great in his second season either, but here again after 150+ games I think it's safe to say the way Corsi works, a CF for Laine means more than a CA. I didn't attempt to actually calculate this in any way, but quick look at the stats from this season and last, I believe to get to positive goal differential his long-term Corsi doesn't have to be over 50, but something like 46-47 already does it.

I think the bottom line is people would be ecstatic with him if he was getting the results he is getting while looking like he works really hard at it and has 110% effort every shift with dynamic skating and being all over the ice all the time. Instead he does it while looking rather casual a lot of the time and being great at positioning and converting scoring chances.

I think one big reason why it seems mostly Finns who really like his game (beside Laine being a Finn of course) is we actually have a very rich history of players who are strong on their skates and work their ass off every shift of every game and then fail to score when it matters. In other words the biggest shortcoming of Team Finland and Finnish players in general I think has been effectiveness, then along comes a player who gets star player results with his biggest STRENGTH being just that, being effective. I can't emphasize enough how refreshing it is to have the tables turned, to have a player with great results even when he doesn't look that great out there (and who absolutely dominates when he does look good) instead of players who look good but get poor results.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

People are being tough on Ehlers and Laine, two youngsters who had a combined 130pts in the regular season.

Some players seem to get free passes.

It is sad we are turning like this on our young players.

Agreed, I mean it’s apparent Laine has flaws with his skating and Ehlers with his defensive presence... They are young, these flaws can be fixed(that being said Rome wasn’t built in a day) and, let’s just hope they try to do so in the offseason. I’m sure if you switched Connor or even Wheeler with Laine/Ehlers(playing beside Little with limited minutes) that you will notice they have flaws too... Maurice could have went the easy route and threw Laine and Ehlers out there on Scheifele’s wing for another season but they need to learn how to play without that Elite Center that will fix they’re youth player flaws and mistakes but it wouldn’t help them as much in the long run. Though the season was hard to watch as a fan of those guys it was probably for the best going forward.

 

[NotCommitted]

Btw. now that the season is over, for next season I'd really like to see the 1st line build around Scheifele-Laine pairing. I simply believe that would be the best for the team. I'd go for a classic dynamic duo + complimentary player thing. Depending on who are in the roster next year, I think the 2nd winger on that line should be either Connor, Perrault or even Armia/Copp. That would free Wheeler to drive the 2nd line, he has proven chemistry with Little or if Roslo is already our 2nd line center next year, then he'd be also a veteran presence to lead Roslo & Ehlers (I imagine). Or if we somehow keep Stastny, that'd be a hell of a 2nd line with both Stastny and Wheeler on it. And play the top 2 lines fairly evenly through the season.

I wouldn't mind ESL either, and both Ehlers and Laine have taken huge steps forward in their defensive game. But I think even better might be for the other winger to be some more "hard working" type with great board work and cycle game.

 

[scelaton]

The jury is out if he will become succesful in the NHL? You do realize he just scored 40 goals in less ice-time than anyone since ice time has been recorded, while playing in ELL most of the season. Since he joined the league he is second in raw amount of goals scored, a couple behind Ovi.
Tough crowd...

I know you can read better than that! What I said is...

If Laine improves his acceleration then he may grow into a $10M player. Until then, the jury is out--

and

It would be a huge cap risk to overpay at this point.

I may be tough on Laine, but no more than I am on anyone for whom I have high expectations. Laine must, MUST improve his mobility or he will not fully achieve his potential. Until then, he is not a $10M dollar man.

 

[habsgirl5000]

my only complaint about Laine is his work around the boards, and cycling. He has almost no chance of keeping the puck.

Hopefully he will put in the work. A la Scheifele.

Laine is not a complete player like Scheifele and he never will be, Laine just has a good one timer, thats all

 

[kelsier]

This my first post after the playoffs ended (personally, I don't give a damn about what happens in the finals). Of course even I was a little disappointed in Laine even while being one of his biggest fans. Not because he played bad hockey (he didn't) but due to not being able to score enough goals. It's not easy task though especially at this level and I guess some injury was still bugging him throughout the playoffs. Wonder if they/he will reveal what it was now that it's over or just prove my assumption wrong. It's too bad that they stuck with the same lines the entire season, cause if they had played Laine and Scheifele together at least a few full games and still found it to be a lethal combo, perhaps we could have seen more of that in the playoffs and obviously looking back now, maybe the luxury of having more potential combos could have turned the tide around when it was needed. Anyway aside from making friends with numerous goal posts, thought he was playing pretty good hockey most of the times and creating scoring chances for his team mates (who too could have finished up a way more than they did). Out of all the young Jets players out there he looked by far the best despite of being snake-bitten what came to goal scoring itself and he was still an asset on the ice who played responsible game from beginning until the end.

All in all, what an absolutely insane season did this young man have when you look at the ice time and compare it to the goals scored and this despite of wasting half the season with absolutely non-functional line. Just unbelievable. He's going to get much better with more strength and more mobility. I'm not expecting him to turn into a rocket, but I do feel like he could finally take that next step of becoming the more explosive and agile player, cause that's pretty much the only real obstacle for him to be amongst the best forwards in the game. I guess much of this will depend on whether he spends some time on the ice during the summer or if they still feel that looking long-term it's best to stay one more off-season off the rinks.

Of course, whatever happens no more 16 minute per game seasons and no more ELL line, no matter if Stastny leaves. Chevy & Maurice will have to figure it out. Hopefully Roslovic will be able to take the next step and become that much needed second line center, cause having someone with high end vision & playmaking skills is absolutely mandatory to get the best out of someone like Laine. Also I hope they do better job with mixing things up and trying new things (including Scheifele and Wheelers spending little less time together). Whatever works out the best. We cannot even say with certainty that it was S-W combo this year since Laine and Scheifele were never properly utilized together and we really don't know if instead of having 1 top line the team could have done better with having 2 top lines, where the best two line drivers would have been separated since the second line was not just working until Stastny came into the picture.

Still a little frustrated about the loss. Nothing that time won't heal though. Guess it's time to take a little break from the hockey itself as well. After all, the summer is coming!

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Laine is not a complete player like Scheifele and he never will be, Laine just has a good one timer, thats all

Oh dear. Another uninformed post about Laine having nothing but good one timer. Tell me, do you know how well Scheifele was doing at Laine's age?

 

[habsgirl5000]

Oh dear. Another uninformed post about Laine having nothing but good one timer. Tell me, do you know how well Scheifele was doing at Laine's age?

the better question is......do you know how well Laine will be doing at Scheifele's age?

 

[grieves]

I know you can read better than that! What I said is...
and

I may be tough on Laine, but no more than I am on anyone for whom I have high expectations. Laine must, MUST improve his mobility or he will not fully achieve his potential. Until then, he is not a $10M dollar man.

Sorry if I misrepresented you. However, I don't think the expectation is that Laine's progress will stagnate at 19yo. Of course he is not a 10m player now, but he is projecting to be. Seriously, Laine is already practically the best goal-scorer in the league, and we are talking about not overpaying... Like I said, tough crowd .

 

[Ares]

Pay the man. 10x10



Finally the day has come!...or has it?

 

[irunthepeg]

liek if u cri evry tiem

 

[jetsfanpei]

Pay the kid all I have to say

 

[kanadalainen]

Laine is not a complete player like Scheifele and he never will be, Laine just has a good one timer, thats all

Ah! Faint praise, that accursed vehicle, rears its ugly head.

A "good one timer"!? Suffering Mother of Moses. That's like stating Canaletto was OK at capturing light, or perhaps Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel makes for a purdy roof.

To quote a well-known dude:
‘The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interrèd with their bones.’

 

[Ares]

Jets Youtube Channel re Laine shaving his beard on Friday:

Winnipeg Jets^ Sadly we won't be able to live stream that. Blast!

 

[Ippenator]

the better question is......do you know how well Laine will be doing at Scheifele's age?

What in fact makes your question any better than his question? Laine is right now an enormously better and more complete player than Scheifele was when he was 20 years old. So should we then believe that Laine will not develop at all in the future, just because you like to question it? Or is it still reasonable to think that he can still develop a lot during the next few years? With knowing how raw he has still been physically, I have to say that the other poster’s question seems in fact like a more reasonable and realistic question than yours.

 

[RageQuit77]

the better question is......do you know how well Laine will be doing at Scheifele's age?

35-65 Goals per season. About.

 

[RageQuit77]

...Maybe off-years of 25+ G/season with heavy defensive responsibilities, and without proper feeders and PP-tactics.

If he have to learn to PK, he will do it successfully, but that would be clear mis-utilization of him.

Generally: No Jets or Laine fans should feel insecure about the man.

 

[Daximus]

35-65 Goals per season. About.

65 is quite a bit. Ovechkin had as many even strength goals in his 65 goal season as Laine did in every situation this year. While I think it's possible he can hit 60 at least once. 65 will take a huge leap forward in his skating. Ovechkin was among the fastest players in the league when he entered it and was probably the fastest with the puck at 22 when he potted 65. Laine will need to work on his speed with the puck to get there.