Patrick Wiercioch | Part II

[Sens Rule]

If you look at the video of Erik when he was rehabbing his achilies and pictures of him now, he has bulked up tremendously. His butt and thighs are nearly Martin St Louis level now.

I'm sure Weir could pack on a good 10 pounds of muscle on his frame. It's just a matter of finding the right kind of protein that doesn't go through his body like a sieve.

I doubt that. He has almost certainly been trying to bulk up since he was drafted. Probably since before he went to NCAA. Do you not think the Senators have tried to find ways to get him to be bigger? He simply can not bulk up that much. You are a slave to your genetics.

 

[BigBush*]

If you look at the video of Erik when he was rehabbing his achilies and pictures of him now, he has bulked up tremendously. His butt and thighs are nearly Martin St Louis level now.

I'm sure Weir could pack on a good 10 pounds of muscle on his frame. It's just a matter of finding the right kind of protein that doesn't go through his body like a sieve.

It's as simple as eating an extra couple of chicken breasts a day

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Weircioch is awful

Here's to hoping ge can turn it around

 

[FlyingJ]

Weircioch is awful

Here's to hoping ge can turn it around

Oh yeah, he was so awful down the stretch, because he didn't play with HEART and GRIT and he didn't HIT MOAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure didn't play like a solid 2nd pairing puck mover down the stretch, and certainly didn't tie for the team lead in points in the playoffs.

 

[BonkTastic]

Oh yeah, he was so awful down the stretch, because he didn't play with HEART and GRIT and he didn't HIT MOAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice Straw Man.

 

[Micklebot]

Oh yeah, he was so awful down the stretch, because he didn't play with HEART and GRIT and he didn't HIT MOAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure didn't play like a solid 2nd pairing puck mover down the stretch, and certainly didn't tie for the team lead in points in the playoffs.

Lets not pretend he doesn't have his issues. There's a reason that despite his pretty favourable deployment, he still ended up getting hemmed in his own zone on numerous occasions even down the stretch.

I like him, but some of his work in his own end is facepalm worthy. Most of the time he makes up for it with his offensive contribution (whether he gets points or not), but it's understandable why some people don't like him.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Wier is a fine player. Imo he's worth keeping but there are still flaws in his game. We cant pretend he's perfect defensively and his lack of points and goals this season was kinda eye catching despite his good advanced stats

 

[Itachi]

Wiercioch was probably our 3rd/4th best defenceman down the stretch which isn't saying much since our bottom pairing was dreadful. If he can improve his board play and get stronger, he'll have a huge season.

 

[starling]

Lets not pretend he doesn't have his issues. There's a reason that despite his pretty favourable deployment, he still ended up getting hemmed in his own zone on numerous occasions even down the stretch.

I like him, but some of his work in his own end is facepalm worthy. Most of the time he makes up for it with his offensive contribution (whether he gets points or not), but it's understandable why some people don't like him.

Eye test? Do you have stats to back this up?
Obvioiusly, on numerous occasions even Karlsson was hemmed in his own zone. The question is %

 

[Micklebot]

Eye test? Do you have stats to back this up?
Obvioiusly, on numerous occasions even Karlsson was hemmed in his own zone. The question is %

Sadly, I don't have the "hemmed in his own zone" stat handy, and I am relying on the eye test. I love how the eye test has become a dirty word for some around here, as though it holds no value.

The problem is, stats that are currently available only tell part of the story; that's why there are soooo many conflicting view on a guy like Wiercioch. He does some things really well, and others really poorly. When used in the right situation, the poor aspects of his game are mitigated (which leads to strong stats).

There is a reason he starts so much in the OZ. Despite being one of the best players on the team at exiting the zone once he has the puck, the coach still opts not to deploy him in our end as much as possible. where there is smoke, there is fire. The eye test confirms it.

If you're going to be honest, you'll acknowledge Wier can have trouble handling the cycle, particularly against bigger players. You'll acknowledge he has trouble with speed, and isn't the type to clear the crease. At the same time, he's usually pretty solid positionally, and uses his stick well to break up zone entries and passing plays.

 

[God Says No]

Sadly, I don't have the "hemmed in his own zone" stat handy, and I am relying on the eye test. I love how the eye test has become a dirty word for some around here, as though it holds no value.

The problem is, stats that are currently available only tell part of the story; that's why there are soooo many conflicting view on a guy like Wiercioch. He does some things really well, and others really poorly. When used in the right situation, the poor aspects of his game are mitigated (which leads to strong stats).

There is a reason he starts so much in the OZ. Despite being one of the best players on the team at exiting the zone once he has the puck, the coach still opts not to deploy him in our end as much as possible. where there is smoke, there is fire. The eye test confirms it.

If you're going to be honest, you'll acknowledge Wier can have trouble handling the cycle, particularly against bigger players. You'll acknowledge he has trouble with speed, and isn't the type to clear the crease. At the same time, he's usually pretty solid positionally, and uses his stick well to break up zone entries and passing plays.

That's a pretty accurate assessment. But I think both of you are correct. He does get hemmed up in our zone, but not as much as some other players did.

You also have to realize that Do Make Say Think has his mind already made up about Wier. So his posts about Wier are heavily subjective.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Oh yeah, he was so awful down the stretch, because he didn't play with HEART and GRIT and he didn't HIT MOAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sure didn't play like a solid 2nd pairing puck mover down the stretch, and certainly didn't tie for the team lead in points in the playoffs.

He is still slow and poor defensively. I don't care much for hitting but that he gets wrestled off the puck so easily and consistently is a concern.

Not surprised that "stats are the only thing that matter" school of "thought" doesn't get that though.

He's great at moving the puck and has a decent release sure, but I don't think those make up for his massive defencicies.

 

[StefanW]

Wiercioch has been the analytics vs eye test poster child for a while now. The interesting thing to me is that in the last stretch of games last season he was harder on the puck and added a physical element to his game, and it seemed to me as though a lot of the eye test detractors started talking about how well he was playing.

To me, BM was correct in calling him out last season on his foot speed, physicality, and how he seems to get pinned on the boards too easily due to not moving the puck quickly enough. He seemed to listen, and his game improved in ways that do not always directly show up in numbers. Whether you want to question that or not, there can be no real argument that he ended up getting more ice time as a result.

 

[PatrickEaves]

I sort of find it funny that many of the posters that consistently harp on Wier being bad defensively are also the most stringent at defending Phillips for his defensive play over the last couple of years.

It's as if it doesn't matter how well you exit the zone as long as you are physical while you attempt to flip it off the boards to the neutral zone.

 

[starling]

Wier is sheltered, awkward and slow on his skates but in his role he gets the job done creating much more chances for his team than against.

 

[Micklebot]

Wiercioch has been the analytics vs eye test poster child for a while now. The interesting thing to me is that in the last stretch of games last season he was harder on the puck and added a physical element to his game, and it seemed to me as though a lot of the eye test detractors started talking about how well he was playing.

To me, BM was correct in calling him out last season on his foot speed, physicality, and how he seems to get pinned on the boards too easily due to not moving the puck quickly enough. He seemed to listen, and his game improved in ways that do not always directly show up in numbers. Whether you want to question that or not, there can be no real argument that he ended up getting more ice time as a result.

What I find funny, is from Oct to end of Jan, he was an analytics superstar with 55% CF and 56% GF in 53.6 % OZ starts, eye test hated him, but from Feb to April, he dropped to 53.8% CF, 50% GF in 57.5% OZ starts and he eye test prefers him.

Just some food for thought, neither tells the whole story.

 

[BigBush*]

Weircioch is awful

Here's to hoping ge can turn it around

Ya, just brutal. I mean, just look at his playoff points in the series against

*I know points aren't everything and know that 6 games is a small sample size

 

[starling]

Funny that Wier is the only player on the team who won a big trophy (WC, Oly or SC) as a Sen.
Yeah, Ryan won Stanley Cup but as a duck.

 

[BigBush*]

Funny that Wier is the only player on the team who won a big trophy (WC, Oly or SC) as a Sen.
Yeah, Ryan won Stanley Cup but as a duck.

Ryan did not and I dont consider WC a big trophy. Well it will he with the new changes which means Weir will never play in the WC's again

 

[starling]

Ryan did not and I dont consider WC a big trophy. Well it will he with the new changes which means Weir will never play in the WC's again

Hah right, he was too young.
Triple gold club is kinda big thing. Crosby went to WC this year in part because he wanted to get into it.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

I sort of find it funny that many of the posters that consistently harp on Wier being bad defensively are also the most stringent at defending Phillips for his defensive play over the last couple of years.

It's as if it doesn't matter how well you exit the zone as long as you are physical while you attempt to flip it off the boards to the neutral zone.

IMO the Wier advocates DRAMATICALLY overrate how good his first pass is.

It is true that he occasionally makes a spectacular pass that springs someone for a breakaway, but on the run-of-the-mill-get-the-puck-out-of-your-own-end play, he is just average IMO.

 

[Itachi]

IMO the Wier advocates DRAMATICALLY overrate how good his first pass is.

It is true that he occasionally makes a spectacular pass that springs someone for a breakaway, but on the run-of-the-mill-get-the-puck-out-of-your-own-end play, he is just average IMO.

His first pass brought a much needed element that nobody else could bring except for Karlsson.

 

[BigBush*]

IMO the Wier advocates DRAMATICALLY overrate how good his first pass is.

It is true that he occasionally makes a spectacular pass that springs someone for a breakaway, but on the run-of-the-mill-get-the-puck-out-of-your-own-end play, he is just average IMO.

Totally agree. Is first pass is ok but Sens fans think its great.

The thing Wier has going for him is he has a goal scoring touch. I don't know if its reach or his quick release but he can find the back of the net. Scores a bunch of goals that you'd think for sure a goalie should stop, and some nice snipes as well

 

[PatrickEaves]

IMO the Wier advocates DRAMATICALLY overrate how good his first pass is.

It is true that he occasionally makes a spectacular pass that springs someone for a breakaway, but on the run-of-the-mill-get-the-puck-out-of-your-own-end play, he is just average IMO.

That's funny, all I said was that it was better than Phillips' first pass.

Then again, I'm not exactly a Wier advocate. You'll find I called all offseason for Murray to upgrade the defense. I want Wier-Ceci to be our 3rd pairing, because they would be a good 3rd pairing. However, right now they are our 2nd pairing, which they really aren't cut out to be at their current stage of development.

 

[StefanW]

Funny that Wier is the only player on the team who won a big trophy (WC, Oly or SC) as a Sen.
Yeah, Ryan won Stanley Cup but as a duck.

I guess, but that particular big trophy can only be won by players on teams that miss the playoffs or exit early. He was great in that tourney for sure and not taking anything away from his accomplishment at all, but in all honesty I would trade that for making the second round of the SCP.