Patrick Wiercioch | Part II

[derriko]

When your 6th defenseman turns a puck over up the middle in overtime resulting in a loss its a bad series. Simply put your 6th D man cannot be costing you games if he does he hasnt done his job. There is no room for big immobile D men that lack hockey sense and puck skills. You can dress max one in your lineup and if he is there he better know to go off the glass and be a physical beast ie Borowiecki.

I disagree on the first point, somewhat agree on the second one. Players make mistakes. If they didnt, then every game would go into a shootout after a 0-0 game.

Was it a bone headed play? Yes...im not arguing that but one bad pass doesnt define a series to me. Overall, that pairing played above expectations and didnt cost us but once.

To the second point, I think your right in that too many slow, one way defensive d-men is not a good idea in the new age NHL. Phillips-Volchenkov used to be a perfect pairing, but now you need at least one of the two to be able to move the puck. Boro-Gryba are both below average passers.

Its a shame either Wier or Boro couldnt switch sides. They would make a pretty good bottom pairing and allow us to shelter both of them.

Methot-Karlsson
Erhoff / Martin / Sekera - Ceci
Wiercioch-Borowiecki

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I disagree on the first point, somewhat agree on the second one. Players make mistakes. If they didnt, then every game would go into a shootout after a 0-0 game.

Was it a bone headed play? Yes...im not arguing that but one bad pass doesnt define a series to me. Overall, that pairing played above expectations and didnt cost us but once.

To the second point, I think your right in that too many slow, one way defensive d-men is not a good idea in the new age NHL. Phillips-Volchenkov used to be a perfect pairing, but now you need at least one of the two to be able to move the puck. Boro-Gryba are both below average passers.

Its a shame either Wier or Boro couldnt switch sides. They would make a pretty good bottom pairing and allow us to shelter both of them.

Methot-Karlsson
Erhoff / Martin / Sekera - Ceci
Wiercioch-Borowiecki

The other issue is that we have a relatively weak 2nd pairing so it would be nice to have a better than average third pair with a bit more mobility.

 

[God Says No]

Boro has played the right side in the AHL. The question is whether he can be effective in the NHL. I think he should be given a chance next year.

 

[BigBush*]

When your 6th defenseman turns a puck over up the middle in overtime resulting in a loss its a bad series. Simply put your 6th D man cannot be costing you games if he does he hasnt done his job. There is no room for big immobile D men that lack hockey sense and puck skills. You can dress max one in your lineup and if he is there he better know to go off the glass and be a physical beast ie Borowiecki.

ouch, yup. i forgot about that.

 

[Benjamin]

When your 6th defenseman turns a puck over up the middle in overtime resulting in a loss its a bad series. Simply put your 6th D man cannot be costing you games if he does he hasnt done his job. There is no room for big immobile D men that lack hockey sense and puck skills. You can dress max one in your lineup and if he is there he better know to go off the glass and be a physical beast ie Borowiecki.

Agreed.

Successful teams build their defense around having quick and smart transition.

We can't dress Boro, Cowen and Gryba. Should only be one of them per game. I'd choose Boro over the other two.

Wiercioch is slow and bad defensively but atleast he can transition the puck.

 

[BigBush*]

The good news is, picking up a solid bottom defenseman/top 4 tweener seems to be one of the easier things to do at the trade deadline...

 

[saskriders]

So where does everyone think Wier can top out at?

He is probably 5 or 6 years away from his prime, so he has lots of time to grow. I think he can become a second pairing puck moving guy in a couple years.

 

[Samsquanch]

I'd only be willing to trade PW if it's in a package for a good top 6 forward or a top 4 dman.

Even then, his value around the league is lower than what it is to us, so I'd be hesitant to let him go just yet.

He could very well turn into that 2nd pairing puck mover that we so desperately need. Hopefully he's working his ass of this summer and we see some real progress from him next season.

I feel like this next season will have a huge impact on his future with the senators. We need either him or Cowen to become regulars, or to bring in someone who can handle the minutes.

The top 4 is just so sketchy right now...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

So where does everyone think Wier can top out at?

He is probably 5 or 6 years away from his prime, so he has lots of time to grow. I think he can become a second pairing puck moving guy in a couple years.

If he gets his strength and skating issues worked out, he should be (one half of) a quality second pairing.

 

[WhiteLight*]

So where does everyone think Wier can top out at?

He is probably 5 or 6 years away from his prime, so he has lots of time to grow. I think he can become a second pairing puck moving guy in a couple years.

that's exactly what he is in 2015

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

IMO to be a top 4 defender in the NHL you gotta be 2 of 3 things:

Fast or pretty good speed/puck-moving/solid-defensively

Wier is only one of those things, he can be more but I'd rather trade him and acquire a bonafide number 3 then wait for Wier to develop. It'll also help Ceci.

 

[Othello*]

I really came to appreciate Wiercioch towards the end of the season and truly think he can excel being a top4 dman.

The only problem I have with him is he's so damn weak, at 6'5 he should be at least 215+ pounds but he's weighing in at 206

 

[BigBush*]

Wiercioch is alright.

 

[Xamar*]

Who's ready for a big year from Wiercioch ?

 

[Flamingo]

Who's ready for a big year from Wiercioch ?

This guy.

And all stats hounds.

 

[Xamar*]

This guy.

And all stats hounds.

And also people with eyes

 

[Othello*]

Hopefully he put on some pounds

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Hopefully he put on some pounds

Doubtful. At this point he is what he is IMO. Just needs to tweak his play style slightly. Slightly.

 

[Boud]

Doubtful. At this point he is what he is IMO. Just needs to tweak his play style slightly. Slightly.

Hopefully, slightly means he'll be able to contain David Desharnais atleast.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Hopefully, slightly means he'll be able to contain David Desharnais atleast.

Haha. I know what you mean. But IMO in a lot of cases, these guys are elite players, and a little tweak is all it takes to make a world of difference.

That #4 spot is Weir's to lose, which is so different from the last few years. I hope he has been working hard and can capitalize on this.

Stoked for the season.

 

[playasRus]

Doubtful. At this point he is what he is IMO. Just needs to tweak his play style slightly. Slightly.

I think the transformation EK has gone through the last 2 summers shows Weircioch has room to improve if he can find it within himself. Weir needs to not only tweak his on ice decisions but a summer of Gary Roberts like training might pay off.

 

[Sens Rule]

I think the transformation EK has gone through the last 2 summers shows Weircioch has room to improve if he can find it within himself. Weir needs to not only tweak his on ice decisions but a summer of Gary Roberts like training might pay off.

Honestly what the heck are you talking about?

Karlsson barely trains in the off season, let alone hardcore train with Gary Roberts. There is no "transformation" with Karlsson. He had always been a smaller in staure but beastly guy. He isn't kinda scrawny, like Wiercioch. Karlsson is the natural's natural. He has great strength for his size. Always has. Except recovering from the achilles he just needs to rest and maintain. If you think there was a sudden "transformation" to Karlsson recently in the last few years, you are mistaken. Aging from 21 to 25 years old and gaining 4/5 pounds of muscle in the offseason while you become a full grown man is not a transformation. Pretty sure if Karlsson wanted to he could be 210 pounds and look like a WWF wrestler. Which would obviously ruin his speed and his game and be a horrible move for him. That's why he doesn't hardcore train in the offseason.

Wiercioch is tall and thin and slow. He has the brains and reach but never has had the body. He has an awkward body type for an NHL D-Man. He is not a natural. I think he trains pretty hard and knows exactly what he has to work on... And he has worked on it for many years. It is just really hard to actually get a lot stronger or faster for him. He got to play for Team Canada, had some actual success after getting his regular spot half way through the season. He should be confident in his abilities, feel more trust in the coach and getting to play. If he just gets marginally faster, marginally stronger... It will have been a good offseason for him. His body type and how he plays won't ever change in a big way. If he could put on 15/20 pounds of muscle and more gears to his skating it would have happened many years ago. Fact is he can't. It isn't due to lack of desire, committment or anything like that... It is simply biology. He is what he is. He isn't a young guy anymore. What you see is what you get.

There could not possibly be more opposite of players, body types and the off season training that they need. Horrible analysis.

 

[Itachi]

Honestly what the heck are you talking about?

Karlsson barely trains in the off season, let alone hardcore train with Gary Roberts. There is no "transformation" with Karlsson. He had always been a smaller in staure but beastly guy. He isn't kinda scrawny, like Wiercioch. Karlsson is the natural's natural. He has great strength for his size. Always has. Except recovering from the achilles he just needs to rest and maintain. If you think there was a sudden "transformation" to Karlsson recently in the last few years, you are mistaken. Aging from 21 to 25 years old and gaining 4/5 pounds of muscle in the offseason while you become a full grown man is not a transformation. Pretty sure if Karlsson wanted to he could be 210 pounds and look like a WWF wrestler. Which would obviously ruin his speed and his game and be a horrible move for him. That's why he doesn't hardcore train in the offseason.

Wiercioch is tall and thin and slow. He has the brains and reach but never has had the body. He has an awkward body type for an NHL D-Man. He is not a natural. I think he trains pretty hard and knows exactly what he has to work on... And he has worked on it for many years. It is just really hard to actually get a lot stronger or faster for him. He got to play for Team Canada, had some actual success after getting his regular spot half way through the season. He should be confident in his abilities, feel more trust in the coach and getting to play. If he just gets marginally faster, marginally stronger... It will have been a good offseason for him. His body type and how he plays won't ever change in a big way. If he could put on 15/20 pounds of muscle and more gears to his skating it would have happened many years ago. Fact is he can't. It isn't due to lack of desire, committment or anything like that... It is simply biology. He is what he is. He isn't a young guy anymore. What you see is what you get.

There could not possibly be more opposite of players, body types and the off season training that they need. Horrible analysis.

Take a breather dude.

He's 24 years old and is standing at 6'5 206 pounds. If Wiercioch was committed to getting stronger he could put on 10 pounds to get him to at least 220.

 

[playasRus]

Honestly what the heck are you talking about?

Karlsson barely trains in the off season, let alone hardcore train with Gary Roberts. There is no "transformation" with Karlsson. He had always been a smaller in staure but beastly guy. He isn't kinda scrawny, like Wiercioch. Karlsson is the natural's natural. He has great strength for his size. Always has. Except recovering from the achilles he just needs to rest and maintain. If you think there was a sudden "transformation" to Karlsson recently in the last few years, you are mistaken. Aging from 21 to 25 years old and gaining 4/5 pounds of muscle in the offseason while you become a full grown man is not a transformation. Pretty sure if Karlsson wanted to he could be 210 pounds and look like a WWF wrestler. Which would obviously ruin his speed and his game and be a horrible move for him. That's why he doesn't hardcore train in the offseason.

...

There could not possibly be more opposite of players, body types and the off season training that they need. Horrible analysis.

Except that Karlsson is almost at 200lbs. There's no denying he's gained quite a bit of muscle ever since pre-injury, around which time he was closer to a 180lb guy as he's listed everywhere. He's clearly learnt to gain some weight because he sheds off so much due to hard minutes throughout the season. I'm not sure why you got so riled by my saying he's packed on muscle recently. It's even visible when we look at him now vs 2 years ago.

I was not comparing body types directly, but only saying that saying Weircioch is what he will always be is inaccurate, since similar aged Karlsson was able to add weight. If at 25yo Karlsson can gain 15lbs, Weir at 24 can surely gain 10lbs.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Honestly what the heck are you talking about?

Karlsson barely trains in the off season, let alone hardcore train with Gary Roberts. There is no "transformation" with Karlsson. He had always been a smaller in staure but beastly guy. He isn't kinda scrawny, like Wiercioch. Karlsson is the natural's natural. He has great strength for his size. Always has. Except recovering from the achilles he just needs to rest and maintain. If you think there was a sudden "transformation" to Karlsson recently in the last few years, you are mistaken. Aging from 21 to 25 years old and gaining 4/5 pounds of muscle in the offseason while you become a full grown man is not a transformation. Pretty sure if Karlsson wanted to he could be 210 pounds and look like a WWF wrestler. Which would obviously ruin his speed and his game and be a horrible move for him. That's why he doesn't hardcore train in the offseason.

Wiercioch is tall and thin and slow. He has the brains and reach but never has had the body. He has an awkward body type for an NHL D-Man. He is not a natural. I think he trains pretty hard and knows exactly what he has to work on... And he has worked on it for many years. It is just really hard to actually get a lot stronger or faster for him. He got to play for Team Canada, had some actual success after getting his regular spot half way through the season. He should be confident in his abilities, feel more trust in the coach and getting to play. If he just gets marginally faster, marginally stronger... It will have been a good offseason for him. His body type and how he plays won't ever change in a big way. If he could put on 15/20 pounds of muscle and more gears to his skating it would have happened many years ago. Fact is he can't. It isn't due to lack of desire, committment or anything like that... It is simply biology. He is what he is. He isn't a young guy anymore. What you see is what you get.

There could not possibly be more opposite of players, body types and the off season training that they need. Horrible analysis.

If you look at the video of Erik when he was rehabbing his achilies and pictures of him now, he has bulked up tremendously. His butt and thighs are nearly Martin St Louis level now.

I'm sure Weir could pack on a good 10 pounds of muscle on his frame. It's just a matter of finding the right kind of protein that doesn't go through his body like a sieve.