Patrick Marleau and the hall of fame

[GreatGonzo]

Mats Sundin got in on being consistent and with his international stuff.

Don't see why the same can't apply to marleau.

tho sundin was a bit better in the scoring department and i think a hair more international success... it's still a tough call.

You can't compare his consistency with Marleaus. Not just that, but you can't use a "weak" example, like Sundin(which he isn't one) to try to boost Marleau.

Sundin finished his career at a PPG, he was one of the best players in the DPE: A 2x Second team AS center. At the time of his retirement, he sat 25th all time in point and 21st in goals, along with being the most productive and arguably the best Swede to ever play. Like I said, VERY different.

A hair more? Marleau is Canadian....that's his benefit.

Sundin...
2x WC All Star: 1993, 2003
WC Best Forward: 1993, 2003
Canadian Cup AS: 1991
WCOH AS: 1996
Olympic AS: 2002
Olympic Gold Medal: 2006(captain)
Senior totals: 79-43-52-95

Calling the difference a "hair" doesn't do Sundin any justice. They aren't close at all.

Also, given the context...Sundin was the Leafs offense for a majority of his career. Marleau rode shot gun with Thornton behind the wheel a majority of his career.

 

[GoldenSeal]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[glovesave_35]

then again, MAKING team canada is a huge accomplishment.

You may have a point here. Yet still, it feels like less of a comment on the class of a player to say he made Team Canada, rather than a player from pretty much any other hockey country making a big contribution to a gold medal.

In the case of Marleau, a guy whose teams in San Jose were widel regarded as major underachievers due to lack of a championship, it feels like adding in his "winning pedigree" as part of Team Canada feels a tad off.

 

[glovesave_35]

Mats Sundin got in on being consistent and with his international stuff.

Don't see why the same can't apply to marleau.

tho sundin was a bit better in the scoring department and i think a hair more international success... it's still a tough call.

Sundin's career is a very clear cut above Patrick Marleau's. Or am I missing something?

 

[splot]

Mats Sundin got in on being consistent and with his international stuff.

Don't see why the same can't apply to marleau.

tho sundin was a bit better in the scoring department and i think a hair more international success... it's still a tough call.

A hair more international success? That's the understatement of the century, Sundin was the best and most important player for Sweden most of the time he suited up for them. Marleau was a nice complementary piece for a stacked Canada, no one would ever say he was a difference maker. While Their NHL careers are fairly comparable there's no comparison between their international careers.

 

[psycat]

If he get's either a Cup(with a solid playoff performance) or passes Gordie as all time leader in GP yes, else no.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Mats Sundin got in on being consistent and with his international stuff.

Don't see why the same can't apply to marleau.

tho sundin was a bit better in the scoring department and i think a hair more international success... it's still a tough call.

Come on... as a Leafs fan, you should know Sundin is not comparable to Marleau.

Sundin led his team in scoring 13 times. Marleau has led a team in scoring three times.

Sundin had 1349 points in 1346 games (an average of more than a point-per-game). Marleau has 1099 points in 1520 games (0.72 points-per-game).

If you go by adjusted points on hockey reference, Sundin had more than 1400 adjusted points in his career (1.05 adjusted points-per-game average). Marleau had just over 1200 in close to 1500 games (0.80 adjusted points-per-game average).

Sundin placed in the top ten for points in a season twice. Marleau never has. Sundin placed in the top 15 six times and in the top 20 eight times. Marleau has one finish in the top 15 for points and three in the top 20.

How would Marleau make up the difference in offense? He's placed in the top ten for Selke voting twice. Sundin was a career +73. Marleau is -6 and has played on very few teams that have missed the playoffs.

Sundin obviously meant more to his teams internationally than Marleau.

Sundin would perhaps be a valid HHOF comparable to someone like Marian Hossa... but not to Marleau.


If Marleau gets in, he'll be more comparable to Andreychuk or maybe Mike Gartner.

 

[Eisen]

He's going to end up being:
Top 10 in GP (Possibly top 5)
Top 7 in GWG (Possibly top 4)
Top 30 in G
Top 75 in A
Top 50 in P
Top 10 in Playoff GWG (Possibly Top 5)
Top 25 in Playoff GP
Top 50 in Playoff Points
TWO Olympic Medals...

What more does a man have to do to be acknowledged for an incredible career?

Have a peak season that is clearly dominant.

 

[GlitchMarner]

While Their NHL careers are fairly comparable there's no comparison between their international careers.

Their NHL careers aren't comparable, either.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Hof has standards that aren't as lofty as the posters here. Finishing his career off in Toronto doesn't hurt, either.

 

[K Fleur]

Well he’s finishing off his career in Toronto so he’s probably getting in. Especially if they have any playoff success while he’s there. Playoff “success” for them could mean as little as getting past the first round.

Didn’t read the whole thread, how many times has VanIslander mentioned game winning goals?

 

[WingsFan95]

A hell of a compiler.

He's at 551 career goals. All the guys above him are Hall of Famers or certain to be (Jagr, Ovechkin, Iginla). Behind him you have to slide to Tkachuk at 538 and then Pat Verbeek at 522. Verbeek played in an inflated era so his numbers and lack of accomplishments have effectively landed him out. Tkachuk didn't have the longevity or playoff numbers Marleau has and I still think there's a chance for him because he's American.

I think chances are pretty good for Marleau now yes.

 

[Beukeboom]

A hell of a compiler.

He's at 551 career goals. All the guys above him are Hall of Famers or certain to be (Jagr, Ovechkin, Iginla). Behind him you have to slide to Tkachuk at 538 and then Pat Verbeek at 522. Verbeek played in an inflated era so his numbers and lack of accomplishments have effectively landed him out. Tkachuk didn't have the longevity or playoff numbers Marleau has and I still think there's a chance for him because he's American.

I think chances are pretty good for Marleau now yes.

Especially if he gets the all time games played record. Kind of hard not letting him in then.

Edit: He also has a chance at top 40 in points. I think he'd be the only one there outside of the HHoF if not inducted.

 

[Rob Brown]

Especially if he gets the all time games played record. Kind of hard not letting him in then.

Yeah...if he plays all 82 games again next season he'll be third with 1,739, and it would only take him another 29 games to pass Howe for first of all time. Pretty hard to not include him.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

marleau:

Career		21 yrs	NHL	1657	551	615	1166

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

marleau adjusted:

617

666

1283

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

doan:

Career		21 yrs	NHL	1540	402	570	972

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

doan adjusted:

455

622

1077

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

sundin:

Career		18 yrs	NHL	1346	564	785	1349

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

sundin adjusted:

599

811

1410

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

you kind of have to admit that marleau is closer to shane doan than he is to mats sundin, who is a pretty low-run hall of famer.

 

[Rob Brown]

marleau:

Career		21 yrs	NHL	1657	551	615	1166

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

doan:

Career		21 yrs	NHL	1540	402	570	972

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

sundin:

Career		18 yrs	NHL	1346	564	785	1349

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

you kind of have to admit that marleau is closer to shane doan than he is to mats sundin, who is a pretty low-run hall of famer.

Mentioned above, but in the case of Marleau there is more to look at than just points. He's 5th in all time games played and could very well become 1st.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Part and parcel of signing with the Leafs.

Yup and that’s exactly why I made that thread as soon as he joined their team to try and show how things work. Players do receive some more hatred and vitriol from a vocal minority after joining Toronto, but as a whole, players gain clout and generally see a rise in their stock afterbjoining Toronto.

 

[WingsFan95]

Yeah...if he plays all 82 games again next season he'll be third with 1,739, and it would only take him another 29 games to pass Howe for first of all time. Pretty hard to not include him.

Can't shake the weirdness of a 41 year old passing Howe's mark. I also look at Messier finishing 11 shy and Jagr about 30. Not saying they definitively stopped short out of respect to Mr. Hockey but they chose not to just play for it. Marleau seriously dropped off this year so him playing 76-82 games next year putting up same numbers and then another season seems...cheap.

Plus let's not forget Howe played 2,186 pro regular season games. That really is the true mark since the NHL merged with the WHA and thus those games are indeed legitimate. Yes this also means Gretzky has 940 pro goals but Howe still beats him with 975.

 

[wetcoast]

Sure he can get in......if he buys a ticket like the rest of us.

I used to think that he might be tracking for a shot at the Hall but that ship sailed quite a while ago.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Turgeon isn't in, and he has 1300+ points in less games. It's hard to say when guys like Neely are there imo.

Coward in Plestany. Never getting in.
Marleau will get in. With the Hall of Fame, it's more useful to ask: "What would prevent this player from entering?" and if you have 1000 points, X goals, are affable with the media, you get in.
Alfredsson should be in, but he snarked about Toronto repeatedly so they are making him wait.

 

[The Kingslayer]

No.

 

[loadie]

A no for me.

 

[Trocity]

Hall of very good, definitely not HOF material. Let's please stop watering the Hall down.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

Sorry what individual awards has he won to go with his zero Stanley Cups?

 

[BlueBull]

Coward in Plestany. Never getting in.
Marleau will get in. With the Hall of Fame, it's more useful to ask: "What would prevent this player from entering?" and if you have 1000 points, X goals, are affable with the media, you get in.
Alfredsson should be in, but he snarked about Toronto repeatedly so they are making him wait.

This. This is a good post imo.

He is probably in the Dave Andreychuk Territory especially if he can somehow win a cup... so I honestly don't know

Hall of very good, definitely not HOF material. Let's please stop watering the Hall down.

They already watered it down too far imo.
Why is a guy like George Armstrong in the hall? Other than he had 4 Cups in the O6 Era, he only had 700 points in 1100 games played and had 53 points for a career high as a forward.
He was basically the Matt Cullen of the O6 Era.
Sure that example is extreme, but look who the hall sometimes inducts.