Player Discussion Patrice Bergeron II

[Rubber Biscuit]

Without question. He could retire tomorrow and he still gets in IMO.

I hope so. He definitely should be. He's better than Gainey for sure

 

[jgatie]

He's a Hall of Famer imo

Don't say that on the main board.

I hope so. He definitely should be. He's better than Gainey for sure

The Habs fan handbook on Gainey is that he was a "one of a kind" player who "revolutionized the role of defensive forward".

Except Don Marcotte and Derek Sanderson were doing it before him, with much better looking mugs.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Don't say that on the main board.



The Habs fan handbook on Gainey is that he was a "one of a kind" player who "revolutionized the role of defensive forward".

Except Don Marcotte and Derek Sanderson were doing it before him, with much better looking mugs.

I'm too young to have ever seen Gainey play. I have to assume he wouldn't be in if he didn't play for the 70's Canadiens

 

[Bruinaura]

Don't say that on the main board.



The Habs fan handbook on Gainey is that he was a "one of a kind" player who "revolutionized the role of defensive forward".

Except Don Marcotte and Derek Sanderson were doing it before him, with much better looking mugs.

That thread really irked me. Gee, Bergeron still has to win "a few more Selkes." The fact that he is a Triple Gold member, and there are only 26 of them in history, is completely overlooked. Why, he even got in before Crosby on that!

Not to mention he won a World championship gold before his World Juniors gold and MVP. Only guy in league history to do that. And then there's the World Cup gold.

Oh, and he won most of his awards and championships after losing essentially an entire season due to a severe concussion. No big deal.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here, but I don't understand why it is so difficult for some people to acknowledge that Bergeron is a great player with a lot of skill, deserving at least consideration for the HOF.

 

[BruinDust]

That thread really irked me. Gee, Bergeron still has to win "a few more Selkes." The fact that he is a Triple Gold member, and there are only 26 of them in history, is completely overlooked. Why, he even got in before Crosby on that!

Not to mention he won a World championship gold before his World Juniors gold and MVP. Only guy in league history to do that. And then there's the World Cup gold.

Oh, and he won most of his awards and championships after losing essentially an entire season due to a severe concussion. No big deal.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here, but I don't understand why it is so difficult for some people to acknowledge that Bergeron is a great player with a lot of skill, deserving at least consideration for the HOF.

Guy is tied for the most Selkes all-time.

From a team success perspective, he's probably Top 10 for his generation, up there with Crosby, Keith, Toews, Doughty, and a handful of others.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

That thread really irked me. Gee, Bergeron still has to win "a few more Selkes." The fact that he is a Triple Gold member, and there are only 26 of them in history, is completely overlooked. Why, he even got in before Crosby on that!

Not to mention he won a World championship gold before his World Juniors gold and MVP. Only guy in league history to do that. And then there's the World Cup gold.

Oh, and he won most of his awards and championships after losing essentially an entire season due to a severe concussion. No big deal.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here, but I don't understand why it is so difficult for some people to acknowledge that Bergeron is a great player with a lot of skill, deserving at least consideration for the HOF.

Two main reasons, imo.

1. Plays for the Bruins, arguably the most hated team of the past decade.

2. He doesn't have the gaudy offensive numbers. This one especially bothers me because up until last year he didn't get the same ice time that guys like Toews were getting. He's at least as good offensively as a guy like Toews, and is leagues ahead in his own zone.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Don't say that on the main board.



The Habs fan handbook on Gainey is that he was a "one of a kind" player who "revolutionized the role of defensive forward".

Except Don Marcotte and Derek Sanderson were doing it before him, with much better looking mugs.

He reminds me of a younger queen Elizabeth of England.

 

[jgatie]

He reminds me of a younger queen Elizabeth of England.

QE has better hair.

 

[jgatie]

Two main reasons, imo.

1. Plays for the Bruins, arguably the most hated team of the past decade.

2. He doesn't have the gaudy offensive numbers. This one especially bothers me because up until last year he didn't get the same ice time that guys like Toews were getting. He's at least as good offensively as a guy like Toews, and is leagues ahead in his own zone.

Except the guy they are comparing him to was a first ballot HOFer and never scored even 50 points in the 70s and 80s, when points fell from the sky like rain.

 

[jgatie]

I'm too young to have ever seen Gainey play. I have to assume he wouldn't be in if he didn't play for the 70's Canadiens

The Selke was basically created for him so he could be given a major trophy. Habs teams padding their stats as usual.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Except the guy they are comparing him to was a first ballot HOFer and never scored even 50 points in the 70s and 80s, when points fell from the sky like rain.

Hey, no one ever accused the main boards of thinking logically

 

[northeastern]

Main board was pretty against Bergeron getting into the HOF the other day... most of the arguments were based on lack of offensive awards and points... for what it's worth anyway.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Main board was pretty against Bergeron getting into the HOF the other day... most of the arguments were based on lack of offensive awards and points... for what it's worth anyway.

The most populous fanbases on this site hate the Bruins passionately. He has more points than Gainey in less games. He should absolutely be in eventually

 

[Dellstrom]

Without question. He could retire tomorrow and he still gets in IMO.

I don't think so. If he wins a few more Selkes getting 50-70 points per season for the last few years of his prime he'll make it in. But he needs a few more years and hopefully a few more successful playoff runs...

Unless hell freezes over he'll get 5 Selkes and be solidified as the best defensive forward of all time. I'd love to see him get 1000 points... Would be hard not to induct the best defensive forward of all time who also got 1000 points in his career.

 

[Gee Wally]

Main board was pretty against Bergeron getting into the HOF the other day... most of the arguments were based on lack of offensive awards and points... for what it's worth anyway.

Luckily the kiddie corp there dont get a vote.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

Well deserved for PB

 

[BruinLVGA]

I don't think so. If he wins a few more Selkes getting 50-70 points per season for the last few years of his prime he'll make it in. But he needs a few more years and hopefully a few more successful playoff runs...

Unless hell freezes over he'll get 5 Selkes and be solidified as the best defensive forward of all time. I'd love to see him get 1000 points... Would be hard not to induct the best defensive forward of all time who also got 1000 points in his career.

I totally think he will. He is 32 and he is missing "only" 326 points. Hope he stays healthy! Touch wood...

 

[BruinDust]

I don't think so. If he wins a few more Selkes getting 50-70 points per season for the last few years of his prime he'll make it in. But he needs a few more years and hopefully a few more successful playoff runs...

Unless hell freezes over he'll get 5 Selkes and be solidified as the best defensive forward of all time. I'd love to see him get 1000 points... Would be hard not to induct the best defensive forward of all time who also got 1000 points in his career.

It's not just about points. In particular if you consider the era he played in.

4 x Selke winner (tied most all-time)
1 x Stanley Cup
2 X Olympic Gold
1 x World Championship Gold
1 x WJC Gold

He has to be at least Top 10 for his generation in terms of team success and individual hardware.

He's in, not really debatable.

 

[Bruinaura]

https://www.si.com/nhl/2017/06/23/selke-award-defensive-forward-patrice-bergeron-bob-gainey

"The finalists this year were Patrice Bergeron, Ryan Kesler and Mikko Koivu, with Bergeron winning his record-tying fourth trophy when he shouldn’t have even been there after having had a down year."

Then he says:

"This feeds into the belief that being a good defensive forward is simply a matter of desire. If you make the decision to try hard, you’ll be great at this. Which would be an outright fallacy. Because now we are talking centers, and this is where skill and even a kind of brilliance, come to the fore."

So Bergeron shouldn't have won because he had a down year, but it takes a brilliant center to win the Selke. Clearly this guy has never watched Bergeron play a day in his life.

 

[ODAAT]

https://www.si.com/nhl/2017/06/23/selke-award-defensive-forward-patrice-bergeron-bob-gainey

"The finalists this year were Patrice Bergeron, Ryan Kesler and Mikko Koivu, with Bergeron winning his record-tying fourth trophy when he shouldn’t have even been there after having had a down year."

Then he says:

"This feeds into the belief that being a good defensive forward is simply a matter of desire. If you make the decision to try hard, you’ll be great at this. Which would be an outright fallacy. Because now we are talking centers, and this is where skill and even a kind of brilliance, come to the fore."

So Bergeron shouldn't have won because he had a down year, but it takes a brilliant center to win the Selke. Clearly this guy has never watched Bergeron play a day in his life.

and clearly Sweeney needs to trade Bergy while his stock is this high

 

[Trap Jesus]

What a weird article. Originally I thought it was just going to be one of those "wingers never get any credit because of faceoffs" articles, but then he actually did a good job at explaining why centers' defensive responsibilities are more in depth than wingers... and then still discredits Bergeron, when he's the one who shows those attributes better than anyone.

 

[jgatie]

What a rambling mess that article was. Mixed metaphors (swimming with sharks to get to your cute date?), hypocrisy from paragraph to paragraph, no flow, etc.

Which begs the question . . . when did Haggs start writing for SI under a pseudonym?

 

[Bruinaura]

What a weird article. Originally I thought it was just going to be one of those "wingers never get any credit because of faceoffs" articles, but then he actually did a good job at explaining why centers' defensive responsibilities are more in depth than wingers... and then still discredits Bergeron, when he's the one who shows those attributes better than anyone.

It made my brain hurt trying to figure out his point.

 

[missingchicklet]

What a rambling mess that article was. Mixed metaphors (swimming with sharks to get to your cute date?), hypocrisy from paragraph to paragraph, no flow, etc.

Which begs the question . . . when did Haggs start writing for SI under a pseudonym?

Haha. That article certainly is on a Haggs level of stupidity.

 

[Flannelman]

Let's be clear: Haggs isn't stupid. He's just really, really, lazy and goes for hits. When he wants to do so, he can crank out a really good article; however, it is usually one every three years.