Panarin Thread II (wins Calder)

[Kshahdoo]

I don't understand why you keep pointing to "another situation." Re signing Panarin is not the question. The question is who the Hawks might lose to re sign Panarin. And the money was always expected to be $6mn+. Who said it was going to be less?

You keep harping back to the subject of re signing Panarin. We get it ... you're concerned OR happy ... depending on your fandom. This is like Fiddy's obsession with Toews.

Players, that are easy to move, the team won't move. And players the team is willing to move, won't be that easy to move. For example, Kruger is easy to move only in fans' dreams. All arguments about a Kruger trade's easiness looks more like spells, that people wanna put on themselves to turn their illusions into a reality.

 

[piteus]

Players, that are easy to move, the team won't move. And players the team is willing to move, won't be that easy to move. For example, Kruger is easy to move only in fans' dreams. All arguments about a Kruger trade's easiness looks more like spells, that people wanna put on themselves to turn their illusions into a reality.

It's not just Kruger. It could be Hjarlmasson. It could be Seabrook. What part of that do you not get? The Hawks already moved Shaw and Teravainen for almost next to nothing to start making room for Panarin. They're purposely short on forward depth in order to re sign Panarin. He's part of the core. Stan always identifies his core and signs them. That's his m.o.

I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge it. You're living in a fantasy world not understanding that reality. It's like you're wishing and hoping that the Hawks trade Panarin.

 

[LDF]

i still can't see how some cannot see the big picture. in the off season, gm's are going to be less willing in helping making a trade with the hawks, unless the hawks sweeten the pkg.

remember the failed brickell trade b/c stan overestimated brickell value??? this is why the hawks will need to add some of the overpayment on players who they, the hawks need to move. i still don't have faith in stan.

so guess what, the hawks doesn't have that much more to sweeten any pkg to rid themselves of players/contracts that the org needs to move.

so will stan take a chance by exposing them for the expansion draft??

 

[piteus]

i still can't see how some cannot see the big picture. in the off season, gm's are going to be less willing in helping making a trade with the hawks, unless the hawks sweeten the pkg.

remember the failed brickell trade b/c stan overestimated brickell value??? this is why and some of the overpayment on contracts, i still don't have faith in stan.

so guess what, the hawks doesn't have that much more to sweeten any pkg to rid themselves of players/contracts that the org needs to move.

so will stan take a chance by exposing them for the expansion draft??

And someone still took Bickell's contract with Teravainen and gave us a high pick in return. The Hawks have attractive assets to trade. It's not that hard to see the big picture. Heck, we even got Anisimov and Dano (traded for Ladd) for Saad when a GM in OUR DIVISION knew the Hawks were desperate for cap space.

Opposing GMs don't give up a poop about the Hawks. They are more concerned if a trade adds value to his team, which helps retain his job. They don't sit and dwell in the off season to actively screw Stan and the Hawks. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. A GM like that will fail and be terminated in no time.

 

[LDF]

And someone still took Bickell's contract with Teravainen and gave us a high pick in return. The Hawks have attractive assets to trade. It's not that hard to see the big picture. Heck, we even got Anisimov and Dano (traded for Ladd) for Saad when a GM in OUR DIVISION knew the Hawks were desperate for cap space.

Opposing GMs don't give up a poop about the Hawks. They are more concerned if a trade adds value to his team, which helps retain his job. They don't sit and dwell in the off season to actively screw Stan and the Hawks. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. A GM like that will fail and be terminated in no time.

i never said that gm's are going to dwell on the hawks and stan, but if the hawks comes a calling, they, the other gm will want a huge ransom to make this trade.

the dumbest thing is not to think that the possibilities of making a trade is guarantee. again, the hawks will need to sweeten any deal in order to rid themselves of a contract that stan over paid for, let alone not moving before they needed to .

 

[piteus]

i never said that gm's are going to dwell on the hawks and stan, but if the hawks comes a calling, they, the other gm will want a huge ransom to make this trade.

the dumbest thing is not to think that the possibilities of making a trade is guarantee. again, the hawks will need to sweeten any deal in order to rid themselves of a contract that stan over paid for, let alone not moving before they needed to .

Why would they ever need to sweeten the pot for a player like Hjmarlmasson and his contract ... if we were forced to move him? Heck, a team like Vegas might be willing to take Hossa's contract for Hammer (especially with the season he's having). It's obviously not optimal (but we do have good young dmen in the pipeline), but it's not as hard as you think it is to make cap space.

And because of the ELCs and RFAs on our roster, Vegas might be only looking at TVR or Kruger as their only legitimate choices from the Hawks roster.

 

[LDF]

Why would they ever need to sweeten the pot for a player like Hjmarlmasson and his contract ... if we were forced to move him? Heck, a team like Vegas might be willing to take Hossa's contract for Hammer (especially with the season he's having). It's obviously not optimal (but we do have good young dmen in the pipeline), but it's not as hard as you think it is to make cap space.

And because of the ELCs and RFAs on our roster, Vegas might be only looking at TVR or Kruger as their only legitimate choices from the Hawks roster.

nice a subtle way of changing the goal line, while you are changing kruger to hammer to make your point. hammer is still more valuable and i am sure the org would not really be moving hammer, volutneerly.

the only reason to move hammer, is b/c no team would be willing to accept a kruger contract, a contract that stan over paid.

with the whole vegas expansion possibilities, well i really think that all the little rules are still not sorted, so suffice it to say, i really can't voice an opinion on this.

 

[piteus]

nice a subtle way of changing the goal line, while you are changing kruger to hammer to make your point. hammer is still more valuable and i am sure the org would not really be moving hammer, volutneerly.

the only reason to move hammer, is b/c no team would be willing to accept a kruger contract, a contract that stan over paid.

with the whole vegas expansion possibilities, well i really think that all the little rules are still not sorted, so suffice it to say, i really can't voice an opinion on this.

What goal line? I've always said that the Hawks will make the hard choices to keep their CORE. And Stan and the organization have indicated Panarin is part of the CORE going forward. If it's not Kruger, it will be Hjarlmasson. If you don't believe me, it's on the thread! That's part of business. Sometimes you have to trade assets to get assets in return, especially in a salary cap world.

It's not optimal, we will trade assets to keep Panarin. We traded Saad to keep Kane and Toews. We got rid of Buff, Ladd, Shaw, Teravainen, Oduya, Sharp, Niemi, etc. Once you are not recognized as part of the core, you are expendable. Do you think it was easy to trade these players? But it's how the Hawks do business. It's not that hard to understand.

In fact, you responded below to my post #852. It's actually right there that Hjarlmasson could be dealt. And when people have a narrative or agenda, it's amazing how they refuse to listen to any other argument.

And somehow through Stan's "mismanagement," the Hawks continue to contend for a Cup for the 9th year in a row. Go figure?

 

[piteus]

And if you claim you don't know much about the expansion draft and won't comment on it ... then don't make statements on the expansion draft ... like this:

so will stan take a chance by exposing them for the expansion draft??

 

[LDF]

What goal line? I've always said that the Hawks will make the hard choices to keep their CORE. And Stan and the organization have indicated Panarin is part of the CORE going forward. If it's not Kruger, it will be Hjarlmasson. If you don't believe me, it's on the thread! That's part of business. Sometimes you have to trade assets to get assets in return, especially in a salary cap world.

It's not optimal, we will trade assets to keep Panarin. We traded Saad to keep Kane and Toews. We got rid of Buff, Ladd, Shaw, Teravainen, Oduya, Sharp, Niemi, etc. Once you are not recognized as part of the core, you are expendable. Do you think it was easy to trade these players? But it's how the Hawks do business. It's not that hard to understand.

In fact, you responded below to my post #852. It's actually right there that Hjarlmasson could be dealt. And people have a narrative or agenda, it's amazing how they refuse to listen to any other argument.

And somehow through Stan's "mismanagement," the Hawks continue to contend for a Cup for the 9th year in a row. Go figure?

this whole point was, moving kruger now, as oppose to the summer. reason, try to unload his contract and whomever they get in rtn will have time to gel with the team.

just recently, you are changing the pieces to hammer instead of kruger. if that is the case of making harsh decision, why not kane, aa, or keith, they have huge contract that if moved, will help the team.

but then again you are confusing the core vs players who movement, will not disrupt the core. i think hammer would be in that list of core players.

saad was traded, after stan had to give him that raise. however stan had a trade for bickell but he overestimated bickell value and the hawks position. bickell contract was horrible and couldn't be moved. trading saad was the first savo if trying to work the cap.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...s-got-fooled-into-the-bryan-bickell-contract#

since bickell did not get moved, stan moved saad, add the money on the players raises they got and it is pretty darn close to saad contract.

since bickell was not traded and his salary was on the books, how many other problems did that cause, esp the ones we, the fans are not privy to.

stan's mismanagement, bickell contract, was not able to trade bickell. that set off a whole lot of other items that hawks needed to take care b/c of that contract, including sweetening pkgs in order for teams to accept a trade. lets not forget, again over paying on a contract, seabs contract, and this time for kruger. now, that is a possible contract that the hawks will not be able to move, unless they add something to the pkg.

i don't know what you will call this whole chain of **** ups but for me i will settle for mismanagement....

lastly, dale tallon had a lot to do with that SC run, including the original core of players drafted.....

 

[LDF]

And if you claim you don't know much about the expansion draft and won't comment on it ... then don't make statements on the expansion draft ... like this:

well isn't it obvious that stan will do that.

there are certain rules pertaining to LV claiming a rfa and how it can affect who is protected and who isn't..... that and the elc and at what yr is the cutoff.

that is what i am talking about.

i made a as-sine statement here, and i apologize for it.


will be back tonite.
peace

 

[TLEH]

The Chicago Blackhawks better obtain a kings ransom for Hjalmarsson if they deem him more important than Panarin, especially as he is the 2nd most important Dman and the 2nd most important value contract(behind panarin for now). His contract is up after two more seasons and if you really wanna start looking forward. Our forward depth is still much better than our defensive depth. Guys like Sikura, Hayden, Debrincat, Louis, knott, and a few others have chances to be NHLers, on defense you're looking at Forsling and maybe Pokka although he hasn't shown much as of late. You've got the kid from Omaha that I like but can't think of his name, and a lot of others that are far away. I know it seems wild, but I think I would deem Hjalmarsson more important. All depends on value going forward and what money either one of them wants but you will get a LOT for panarin and I think I would be OK with that. All this assumes that Campbell is gone and Kempny is gone, therefore going back to lacking defensive depth again.

 

[BobbyJet]

What goal line? I've always said that the Hawks will make the hard choices to keep their CORE. And Stan and the organization have indicated Panarin is part of the CORE going forward. If it's not Kruger, it will be Hjarlmasson. If you don't believe me, it's on the thread! That's part of business. Sometimes you have to trade assets to get assets in return, especially in a salary cap world.

It's not optimal, we will trade assets to keep Panarin. We traded Saad to keep Kane and Toews. We got rid of Buff, Ladd, Shaw, Teravainen, Oduya, Sharp, Niemi, etc. Once you are not recognized as part of the core, you are expendable. Do you think it was easy to trade these players? But it's how the Hawks do business. It's not that hard to understand.

In fact, you responded below to my post #852. It's actually right there that Hjarlmasson could be dealt. And when people have a narrative or agenda, it's amazing how they refuse to listen to any other argument.

And somehow through Stan's "mismanagement," the Hawks continue to contend for a Cup for the 9th year in a row. Go figure?

Excellent post, but also keep in mind that Stan dug some holes financially with his generous contracts ... and he had to be good to keep the ship afloat. So far he has done a commendable job in keeping the team a contender. Can he maintain that success, is the question?

 

[BobbyJet]

The Chicago Blackhawks better obtain a kings ransom for Hjalmarsson if they deem him more important than Panarin, especially as he is the 2nd most important Dman and the 2nd most important value contract(behind panarin for now). His contract is up after two more seasons and if you really wanna start looking forward. Our forward depth is still much better than our defensive depth. Guys like Sikura, Hayden, Debrincat, Louis, knott, and a few others have chances to be NHLers, on defense you're looking at Forsling and maybe Pokka although he hasn't shown much as of late. You've got the kid from Omaha that I like but can't think of his name, and a lot of others that are far away. I know it seems wild, but I think I would deem Hjalmarsson more important. All depends on value going forward and what money either one of them wants but you will get a LOT for panarin and I think I would be OK with that. All this assumes that Campbell is gone and Kempny is gone, therefore going back to lacking defensive depth again.

Yep, it's a vicious cycle for top teams and the realities of the cap strapped teams who have had success. Hawks being the most obvious. The players demand more.....like the 10.5 we pay our boys and it trickles all the way down (Kruger ).

 

[JustABlackhawksFan]

The Chicago Blackhawks better obtain a kings ransom for Hjalmarsson if they deem him more important than Panarin, especially as he is the 2nd most important Dman and the 2nd most important value contract(behind panarin for now). His contract is up after two more seasons and if you really wanna start looking forward. Our forward depth is still much better than our defensive depth. Guys like Sikura, Hayden, Debrincat, Louis, knott, and a few others have chances to be NHLers, on defense you're looking at Forsling and maybe Pokka although he hasn't shown much as of late. You've got the kid from Omaha that I like but can't think of his name, and a lot of others that are far away. I know it seems wild, but I think I would deem Hjalmarsson more important. All depends on value going forward and what money either one of them wants but you will get a LOT for panarin and I think I would be OK with that. All this assumes that Campbell is gone and Kempny is gone, therefore going back to lacking defensive depth again.

I don't really see why people think this is apparently coming down to Hjalmarsson vs. Panarin. I think it is very feasible to re-sign Panarin without moving Hjalmarsson.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

You don't move first line forwards unless you have to and you don't move top pairing defenseman unless you have to.

You keep both and plug the bottom six/bottom three with cheap talent.

 

[TLEH]

This is runnin off the assumption that Kruger is not tradeable

 

[LDF]

i look at his salary and with the bonus, i am a little confuse. the math doesn't add up.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/marcus-kruger

 

[piteus]

this whole point was, moving kruger now, as oppose to the summer. reason, try to unload his contract and whomever they get in rtn will have time to gel with the team.

just recently, you are changing the pieces to hammer instead of kruger. if that is the case of making harsh decision, why not kane, aa, or keith, they have huge contract that if moved, will help the team.

but then again you are confusing the core vs players who movement, will not disrupt the core. i think hammer would be in that list of core players.

saad was traded, after stan had to give him that raise. however stan had a trade for bickell but he overestimated bickell value and the hawks position. bickell contract was horrible and couldn't be moved. trading saad was the first savo if trying to work the cap.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...s-got-fooled-into-the-bryan-bickell-contract#

since bickell did not get moved, stan moved saad, add the money on the players raises they got and it is pretty darn close to saad contract.

since bickell was not traded and his salary was on the books, how many other problems did that cause, esp the ones we, the fans are not privy to.

stan's mismanagement, bickell contract, was not able to trade bickell. that set off a whole lot of other items that hawks needed to take care b/c of that contract, including sweetening pkgs in order for teams to accept a trade. lets not forget, again over paying on a contract, seabs contract, and this time for kruger. now, that is a possible contract that the hawks will not be able to move, unless they add something to the pkg.

i don't know what you will call this whole chain of **** ups but for me i will settle for mismanagement....

lastly, dale tallon had a lot to do with that SC run, including the original core of players drafted.....

First, if we REALLY wanted to keep Saad, we could have traded Shaw and TT along with Bickell to make cap room. And why do you keep assuming trading Bickell was the only way to keep Saad? It's like saying getting rid Kruger's contract is the only way to keep Panarin. We're going to re sign Panarin. That's for sure. There might have to be some uncomfortable transactions, but it's going to happen. We've already traded Shaw and Teravainen to make room for Panarin going forward. And yeah ... we might have to trade Anisimov to keep Panarin. Who knows? But Panarin is part of the core going forward ... just like Kane, Toews, and Keith. So there's not much to discuss about that.

Yes ... Tallon had a lot to do with the first Cup run. So did Stan. And Stan reloaded the team for the 2nd and 3rd run. And how is Tallon doing now for Florida?

Amazingly, the Hawks are Cup contenders again ... while losing the likes of Sharp, Oduya, Ladd, Danault, Shaw, Zeus, Teravainen, Raanta, Frolik, Versteeg, Bolland, Vermette, Stahlberg, Smith, Leddy, Richards, Emery, etc. in the past 3+ years.

 

[Bubba88]

As much as I hate to say it, but Krüger will be Long gone before considering Panarin to leave.

Stan will get it done. If not, I expect him to score ppg and 30+ Goals and we just won't be able to afford him. The return would be more than Saads.

 

[LDF]

First, if we REALLY wanted to keep Saad, we could have traded Shaw and TT along with Bickell to make cap room. And why do you keep assuming trading Bickell was the only way to keep Saad? It's like saying getting rid Kruger's contract is the only way to keep Panarin. We're going to re sign Panarin. That's for sure. There might have to be some uncomfortable transactions, but it's going to happen. We've already traded Shaw and Teravainen to make room for Panarin going forward. And yeah ... we might have to trade Anisimov to keep Panarin. Who knows? But Panarin is part of the core going forward ... just like Kane, Toews, and Keith. So there's not much to discuss about that.

Yes ... Tallon had a lot to do with the first Cup run. So did Stan. And Stan reloaded the team for the 2nd and 3rd run. And how is Tallon doing now for Florida?

Amazingly, the Hawks are Cup contenders again ... while losing the likes of Sharp, Oduya, Ladd, Danault, Shaw, Zeus, Teravainen, Raanta, Frolik, Versteeg, Bolland, Vermette, Stahlberg, Smith, Leddy, Richards, Emery, etc. in the past 3+ years.

re the bold, b/c of the salary cap hit, if i remember correctly or that was implied from the hawks org.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

It's not THAT hard to keep Panarin.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/216298

 

[LDF]

It's not THAT hard to keep Panarin.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/216298

so by this scenario, the hawks looses, m kempny, panik.

the point was or is, minimum of players leaving. but by this, there could many different scenarios on mix-match to reach the 2017 - 18 salary cap restriction.

granted no knows what that yr salary cap is going to be.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

so by this scenario, the hawks looses, m kempny, panik.

the point was or is, minimum of players leaving. but by this, there could many different scenarios on mix-match to reach the 2017 - 18 salary cap restriction.

granted no knows what that yr salary cap is going to be.

Correct. I'll gladly move Kempny and Panik in order to keep Panarin. I make that move every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

 

[LDF]

Correct. I'll gladly move Kempny and Panik in order to keep Panarin. I make that move every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

ok, that is kool.

as i mention, the org will have to make some harsh decision with this era of salary cap restrictions.

none of us has the right answer, only good ole fashion debates.

many thanks to all. this was fun.

btw

Go Hawks!!!