Speculation: "Paging Mr. Shero, your job is on the line"

[Dupree13]

two 2nds for Doug Murray... a man who only garnered a 1.5mil a year cap hit job after that. And not even doug murray for a season, no, doug murray for about two months.

Iginla did not help this team win so the trade was NOT worth it. Screw the actual prospects or picks we gave up, lets just talk about that value. We traded away a package for a couple months of a player we apparently didnt need because it was obvious he was awkwardly forced into the lineup in a wrong position. That couldve been used towards trading for a player under contract that couldve actually been of use and continued to be of use to this team well after that two months. We basically lost all of last years draft for that debacle and a good portion of this years draft and we have absolutely nothing to show for it.

People are already complaining about Kunitz/Dupuis and it's only going to go downhill from here because at their age they don't get better each year they get worse. So only in bizarro world would that be considered good.

Do you like Tanner Glass? Craig Adams? Guess who gave Dan Bylsma those drugs?

How about Michelek for a bag of pucks trade, look at the kinds of returns that Buffalo got for their players they were selling off.

How's our farm system look, good thing we have plenty of wingers in it with high upside potential looking to slot into the top 6 at below market value rates...oh wait we don't. Well, good thing we have all those defensemen, don't worry that we signed old man Scuderi to effectively block them from getting any playing time and you can be assured since it's Ray Shero he'll be signing another dinosaur if given the keys to the team again this summer.

The failure to draft any decent wingers is your best point and one I can't argue with. Other than that I just consider it a lot of nit-picking. Some of it is reasonable. Some of it (complaining about Kunitz, coming off a career year?) not reasonable.

The gist of my position is simple, did Shero put together rosters capable of Cup runs? I think yes. They have a lot of good players locked up long term so I don't see the future as bleak the way you do.

 

[joeyjake5]

As an outsider looking in Bylsma simply became a differwnt voice to replace what Therien had already started. It worked and the Pens won the cup and Bylsma was the saint hero. But now this coach has grown stale on the players and needs to change.

Shero has done a good job but much like our former GM Gillis, sending picks and prospects for "has been, past their prime" players such as Murray, Morrow, and Iginla, etc....is now catching up to them.

Perhaps Im wrong but thats just an outsider observation.


Hey...just a thought.....Torts is lookin for a job. Can you imagine Crosby becoming the shot blocker like the Sedins were forced to do? Haha

Torts would not even last one day with the Pens

 

[Gooch]

The failure to draft any decent wingers is your best point and one I can't argue with. Other than that I just consider it a lot of nit-picking. Some of it is reasonable. Some of it (complaining about Kunitz, coming off a career year?) not reasonable.

The gist of my position is simple, did Shero put together rosters capable of Cup runs? I think yes. They have a lot of good players locked up long term so I don't see the future as bleak the way you do.

Part of the reason he has failed to draft any wingers is because he keeps sending draft picks away on past their prime dinosaurs at the deadline. The point is he gets very little value with the team's assets. People point to two trades, the Kunitz and Neal trades as a way to absolve him of all his sins. If we go back to that Kunitz trade the trade itself was more about Tangradi and Kunitz was sort of the place holder. That obviously fizzled out and Kunitz parked next to Crosby over the years has been very good for Kunitz. But I think we all know he is purely complementary of a player and not capable of creating his own. His stats and perceived value are a direct result of playing next to either Crosby or Malkin at all times. I kinda wish we could go in a different direction from him but we're stuck with him.

The Neal/Niskanen for Goligoski trade. As with the Whitney trade it involved trading away of an asset that Craig Patrick had drafted. A puck moving defensemen that got his opportunity to show what he can do with the team and thus inflate his value with a good season. It might of lead to the belief that he could do this over and over which in a way could make this trade a bad thing. There's really no way around this, this trade was a win but theres a way it couldve been even better. That is if we had traded Niskanen when his value was the highest.


Shero needs to start looking at his players as commodities. When a player isnt in the long term plans of the team he needs to be buying when low and selling when high. Having so much cap tied into the goaltender, two centers, top pairing D, and James Neal wouldnt matter as much if we had a steady stream of entry level contracts playing on the club exceeding their value. Instead we have players being paid at or above the level they contribute. It leads to what we saw, an incredibly weak roster overall that is devoid of depth and cannot absorb an injury. In the most important game of Dan Bylsma's career he had Gibbons starting next to Crosby. If that isnt an indication of Ray Shero's failures as a GM I don't know what is.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Didn't the pens wait like 4 days after the collapse last season before extending Bylsma?

It does make me nervous though, the longer we go without an announcement, the smaller the chances of Bylsma and Shero will get fired.

I think we are all in agreement, that both need to go. I am surpised how so many people jumped on the fire Shero wagon, it seems like a few days ago, many wanted to give him another season.

Hopefully those people have realized that would be a huge mistake.

 

[gordie]

Didn't the pens wait like 4 days after the collapse last season before extending Bylsma?

It does make me nervous though, the longer we go without an announcement, the smaller the chances of Bylsma and Shero will get fired.

I think we are all in agreement, that both need to go. I am surpised how so many people jumped on the fire Shero wagon, it seems like a few days ago, many wanted to give him another season.

Hopefully those people have realized that would be a huge mistake.

You have nothing to worry about. At the very least Bylsma, Granato and Reirden are gone but other moves are still questionable.

 

[Fire Shero*]

It's pathetic that we had to unload a player we drafted in the first round for Brenden Morrow. Joe Morrow was obviously not a smart pick and if he was, then it was a huge mistake to trade him for broken down morrow.

No matter how you look at it, it was a horrible trade.

Shero would be okay if he still had some more of Craig Patrick players. He can't seem to get any value out of the guy he drafts except maybe another bust, Espisito was apart of the Hossa deal.

In short, Shero is garbage. He can't draft, we probably have the worst forward prospects in the league and Fleury is still here.

**** off Shero

 

[Riptide]

I don’t think Shero is going to get fired this season, since he still has his panic button in play (firing Bylsma), but this offseason is going to be very telling as to which Shero the Pens are going to get moving forward: The Shero from 2006-2009 or the Shero that has remained overly loyal to a team that won the cup five years ago.

Honestly, I think there's as much as a 50/50 chance he gets canned. According to Freidman, Lemieux wanted Bylsma gone after the Boston series, and Shero said I'm the GM, he's my guy, I'm not going to fire him.

Now... does that mean Shero gets a pass by firing Bylsma now, or does Lemieux can Shero for making the mistake of not **** canning the coach last season (when it should have been obvious)?

 

[Gooch]

It's pathetic that we had to unload a player we drafted in the first round for Brenden Morrow. Joe Morrow was obviously not a smart pick and if he was, then it was a huge mistake to trade him for broken down morrow.

No matter how you look at it, it was a horrible trade.

Shero would be okay if he still had some more of Craig Patrick players. He can't seem to get any value out of the guy he drafts except maybe another bust, Espisito was apart of the Hossa deal.

In short, Shero is garbage. He can't draft, we probably have the worst forward prospects in the league and Fleury is still here.

**** off Shero

That Morrow for Morrow deal might be the one trade where it was almost universal on the boards here where everyone hated it when it happened almost as much as they hate it now.

Whats weird is people want the same guy who swung that trade to be in charge of fixing all the problems on the roster that he created.

 

[johnniewalker]

Shero has definitely made some rough moves in the drafts. That said, when it comes to the draft, hindsight is 20/20. Obviously our scouts were not doing a great job, and we missed on some picks while other teams found good players in slots very near ours. Here are some examples of picks he has made, and players selected less than a round afterwards that have shown more or shown more potential at the NHL level.

2006 R1: Selected Jordan Staal over Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel
2006 R2: Selected Carl Sneep over Jamie McGinn, Nikolai Kulemin, Shawn Matthias, Milan Lucic
2006 R3: Selected Brian Strait over Brad Marchand, Cal Clutterbuck
2006 R7: Selected Timo Seppanen over Derek Dorsett
2007 R1: Selected Angelo Esposito over Max Pacioretty, Mikael Backlund, David Perron
2007 R2: Selected Keven Veilleux over T.J. Galiardi, Nick Spaling, Wayne Simmonds
2007 R3: Selected Casey Pierro-Zabotel over Joakim Andersson
2007 R4: Selected Luca Caputi / Alex Grant over Jamie Benn
2007 R5: Selected Jake Muzzin, lost him to free agency
2007 R6: Selected Dustin Jeffrey over Nick Bonino
2008 R4: Selected Nathan Moon over Gustav Nyquist, Andrei Loktionov, Matt Calvert, Matt Martin
2008 R5: Selected Alexandre Pechurskiy over Jared Spurgeon, Cam Atkinson, Tommy Wingels
2008 R6: Selected Patrick Killeen over Jason Demers, Anders Lindback
2009 R1: Selected Simon Despres over Ryan O'Reilly, Kyle Clifford, Alex Chiasson, Jakob Silfverberg, Tomas Tatar
2009 R2: Selected Philip Samuelsson over Tyson Barrie, Reilly Smith, Cody Eakin
2009 R4: Selected Nick Petersen over Gabriel Bourque, Marcus Kruger
2010 R1: Selected Beau Bennett over Riley Sheahan, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Charlie Coyle, Justin Faulk
2010 R5: Selected Kenneth Agostino over Brendan Gallagher
2011 R1: Selected Joe Morrow over Boone Jenner, Brandon Saad

 

[gordie]

Shero has definitely made some rough moves in the drafts. That said, when it comes to the draft, hindsight is 20/20. Obviously our scouts were not doing a great job, and we missed on some picks while other teams found good players in slots very near ours. Here are some examples of picks he has made, and players selected less than a round afterwards that have shown more or shown more potential at the NHL level.

2006 R1: Selected Jordan Staal over Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel
2006 R2: Selected Carl Sneep over Jamie McGinn, Nikolai Kulemin, Shawn Matthias, Milan Lucic
2006 R3: Selected Brian Strait over Brad Marchand, Cal Clutterbuck
2006 R7: Selected Timo Seppanen over Derek Dorsett
2007 R1: Selected Angelo Esposito over Max Pacioretty, Mikael Backlund, David Perron
2007 R2: Selected Keven Veilleux over T.J. Galiardi, Nick Spaling, Wayne Simmonds
2007 R3: Selected Casey Pierro-Zabotel over Joakim Andersson
2007 R4: Selected Luca Caputi / Alex Grant over Jamie Benn
2007 R5: Selected Jake Muzzin, lost him to free agency
2007 R6: Selected Dustin Jeffrey over Nick Bonino
2008 R4: Selected Nathan Moon over Gustav Nyquist, Andrei Loktionov, Matt Calvert, Matt Martin
2008 R5: Selected Alexandre Pechurskiy over Jared Spurgeon, Cam Atkinson, Tommy Wingels
2008 R6: Selected Patrick Killeen over Jason Demers, Anders Lindback
2009 R1: Selected Simon Despres over Ryan O'Reilly, Kyle Clifford, Alex Chiasson, Jakob Silfverberg, Tomas Tatar
2009 R2: Selected Philip Samuelsson over Tyson Barrie, Reilly Smith, Cody Eakin
2009 R4: Selected Nick Petersen over Gabriel Bourque, Marcus Kruger
2010 R1: Selected Beau Bennett over Riley Sheahan, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Charlie Coyle, Justin Faulk
2010 R5: Selected Kenneth Agostino over Brendan Gallagher
2011 R1: Selected Joe Morrow over Boone Jenner, Brandon Saad

The he has hired the wrong scouts like wrong head coach, giving him the wrong info on draft eligible players.

 

[Gunnar Staal]

Shero has definitely made some rough moves in the drafts. That said, when it comes to the draft, hindsight is 20/20. Obviously our scouts were not doing a great job, and we missed on some picks while other teams found good players in slots very near ours. Here are some examples of picks he has made, and players selected less than a round afterwards that have shown more or shown more potential at the NHL level.

2006 R1: Selected Jordan Staal over Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel
2006 R2: Selected Carl Sneep over Jamie McGinn, Nikolai Kulemin, Shawn Matthias, Milan Lucic
2006 R3: Selected Brian Strait over Brad Marchand, Cal Clutterbuck
2006 R7: Selected Timo Seppanen over Derek Dorsett
2007 R1: Selected Angelo Esposito over Max Pacioretty, Mikael Backlund, David Perron
2007 R2: Selected Keven Veilleux over T.J. Galiardi, Nick Spaling, Wayne Simmonds
2007 R3: Selected Casey Pierro-Zabotel over Joakim Andersson
2007 R4: Selected Luca Caputi / Alex Grant over Jamie Benn
2007 R5: Selected Jake Muzzin, lost him to free agency
2007 R6: Selected Dustin Jeffrey over Nick Bonino
2008 R4: Selected Nathan Moon over Gustav Nyquist, Andrei Loktionov, Matt Calvert, Matt Martin
2008 R5: Selected Alexandre Pechurskiy over Jared Spurgeon, Cam Atkinson, Tommy Wingels
2008 R6: Selected Patrick Killeen over Jason Demers, Anders Lindback
2009 R1: Selected Simon Despres over Ryan O'Reilly, Kyle Clifford, Alex Chiasson, Jakob Silfverberg, Tomas Tatar
2009 R2: Selected Philip Samuelsson over Tyson Barrie, Reilly Smith, Cody Eakin
2009 R4: Selected Nick Petersen over Gabriel Bourque, Marcus Kruger
2010 R1: Selected Beau Bennett over Riley Sheahan, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Charlie Coyle, Justin Faulk
2010 R5: Selected Kenneth Agostino over Brendan Gallagher
2011 R1: Selected Joe Morrow over Boone Jenner, Brandon Saad

Not a bad list (even though I still think Samuelsson, Despres, Bennett and Agostino could be decent at the NHL level), but you missed one I'd like to mention:

Sixthr round of the 2009 NHL Draft the Pens pick a lumbering defenseman named Viktor Ekbom. Who was picked immediately after him? Erik Haula, who has looked pretty damn good for the Minnesota Wild this season (and IIRC, a lot of people on here were complaining that we took Ekbom over him).

 

[Michael8771*]

DB's gone, we all understand that, RS, well maybe he is as well. If he isn't fired he needs to target a guy like Evander Kane. He has all the components to be an effective wing with Crosby, including speed!

 

[johnniewalker]

Not a bad list (even though I still think Samuelsson, Despres, Bennett and Agostino could be decent at the NHL level), but you missed one I'd like to mention:

Sixthr round of the 2009 NHL Draft the Pens pick a lumbering defenseman named Viktor Ekbom. Who was picked immediately after him? Erik Haula, who has looked pretty damn good for the Minnesota Wild this season (and IIRC, a lot of people on here were complaining that we took Ekbom over him).

I agree that the jury is still out on many of the players I listed from the more recent drafts, and possibly even some of the earlier ones. I just wanted to call out places where we made picks and there are guys contributing in the NHL to a greater extent already that were picked shortly after.

Good callout on Erik Haula. I left that one off because I felt like it was early to call Huala proven at the NHL level. I hesitated to put Evgeny Kuznetsov on there as a miss for Bennett as well because he really hasn't proved to be better yet, but he has shown great potential.

 

[Gunnar Staal]

So Shero's been fired... honestly didn't think it would happen, but considering what's happened in the past year, I'm not truly against it. Something tells me if Shero stayed he'd be signing Orpik to a retirement contract, trade Despres for a can of beans and draft Anthony DeAngelo with his first round pick.